DEBATE: Those @#$%^ vacuum cleaners - or really???

[DisneyKidds]

Sorry to disappoint sir Scoop - but it has been a bit quiet of late, so.............

Sitting and waiting for Spectro after the fireworks the Saturday after Thanksgiving got me to thinking. As we were sitting on the curb the "dreaded" vacuums "that never came out during park hours before" were cleaning up the streets. I got to thinking about some of you guys, and your longing for the "old days" when thinks like vacuum cleaners never littered the sound waves during park hours. Then I got to thinking, was that ever really the case?

Now, this could be a short thread, as I may just have to take some people's word for a few things, but....................

We have been regular visitors since 1990. While many feel that Disney was on the decline back then for many reasons, things were generally good. You had midnight hours, E-nights until 2 am, Mickey head butter, chocolates with your bill, no painting during park hours, spotless parks, pristine resorts, etc., etc.

Now back to those spotless parks, especially the MK. You see, the MK had always been different from the other parks "back in the day". During the summer you always had two evening parades, with fireworks sandwiched in the middle. Contrast that to MGM or Epcot, where the parks closed with the fireworks, be they Illuminations or Sorcery in the Sky. Of course, Main Street in the MK is a favorite spot to see the parade and fireworks so you had lots and lots of people in that relatively small space during that parade/fireworks time.

So, where am I going with this.............who knows..........oh, this is where. Back in 1990 the outward symptoms of the "crumbling of Disney" had not yet manifested themselves. Yet, even back in 1990 the dreaded vacuums were out between parades. I believe it gets back to the spotless park. The cleanliness of the Disney parks is something that people always had applauded. However, after all those people sat on Main Street for the early parade, you got stuff on the ground. Paper, popcorn, cups, etc., etc. Yet, Main Street was always spotless for the second parade. Now, from 1990 on I know it was the result of the vacuums.

My question is, assuming that Main Street was always spotless for the late parade prior to 1990 (which I believe it was), how did it get so clean if those vacuums never came out? Or, is it just possible that the "good old days" weren't quite what some remember and those vacuums were always present between parades?

I have to admit, I don't mind the vacuums. They are soemthing I recall from our earliest visits - something I had never really seen before. I thought that they were kind of cool how they could suck anything up with a loud *thunk* (even small children ) and they gave you a nice clean environment in which to wait for the impending Magical parade.

Comments, questions..............................

I do have an observation from our recent trip, which was as magical as ever. DW noticed that (glaringly as she put it) the bathrooms were not as clean as they always used to be. I also have to admit that I saw several grabage cans full to overflowing in the evening. Obviously Disney is not keeping the parks as clean as they used to .

 

[Cricket2]

Originally posted by DisneyKidds
no painting during park hours

I have witnessed painting on Main Street 4 times over a 10 year period (approx.) and have spoken to the cast members/painters 2 of those times. I'm not entirely convinced that they have ever tried to hide regular painting on Main St. I'm not talking about a remodel or gut-n-build kind of painting, but that "fresh coat" kind of thing.

The painters were always in costume and more than willing to talk about quality, colors and materials to me.

While this may not be the case anywhere else in the "world", it has been what I have seen as part of the Main Street atmosphere.

As for the street cleanings, did you ever think that the decline in quality of guest and their attitude towards the park may have something to do with it? I never litter anywhere, but to litter at WDW would be worthy of a beating in my book.

 

[DisneyKidds]

As for the street cleanings, did you ever think that the decline in quality of guest and their attitude towards the park may have something to do with it? I never litter anywhere, but to litter at WDW would be worthy of a beating in my book.

I agree that to litter WDW would be a shame - and unfortunately some people do it. However, I doubt more people did it in 1990 than 1985. Maybe with the attendance being higher there was more incidental unintentional "littering" (spilled popcorn and such), but did Disney do nothing prior to 1990 to address this kind of "litter"?

 

[Cricket2]

I thought there were people walking around with cleaning carts in costume?

JC

 

[Bob O]

I just got back from DL and they did have the street cleaners/vacums cleaning the streets on Main St during the park hours when the park was open at night. I also observed painting during regular hours/daytime in Toon Town and on Main St and this was all disapointing IMHO!!!

 

[raidermatt]

Being a pretty new visitor to WDW, I can't provide any first hand knowledge regarding the cleaning practices at MK.

However, at DL, they DID always keep the place clean by sending out CMs with the brooms and dustpans. I can remember seeing them all the way back to the 70's, but I do not remember ever seeing the suck-o-matics.

In fact, sort of a running joke I heard many times was how long it would take one of these CMs to sweep up any litter you dropped. Most would say less than 30 seconds, which I'm sure is an exaggeration. But the point is that everyone knew that Disney kept its parks clean without intruding on its guests.

There were no jokes about dirty parks, or about Disney sending out fleets of John Deere Riding Vacuums. (I know, another exaggeration, but it sounded to good to leave out...)

I understand that the motorized vacuums are likely more cost effective than some extra CMs, but there can also be no doubt that the vacuums detract from the guest experience. Yes, purely from a guest point of view, the vacuums are better than having a dirty park. But they are NOT better than costumed, friendly CMs sweeping up by hand.

It gets back to which comes first, efficiency or show?

How much do the motorized vacuums really save? Probably not a hard question to answer if you have the facts. But how much does it cost in the long run in terms of the overall guest experience and repeat visits? That's a very difficult question to answer, and its very easy to ignore when you have a $10,000 savings staring you in the face and you are struggling to make required expense cuts.

 

[Another Voice]

I don’t mind the vacuum cleaners on Main Street half as much as the vacuum hoses they keep trying to attach to my wallet…

 

[OnWithTheShow]

Great one Voice.

 

[RyMickey]

RaiderMatt says:

How much do the motorized vacuums really save? Probably not a hard question to answer if you have the facts. But how much does it cost in the long run in terms of the overall guest experience and repeat visits?

Are you saying that because Disney uses motorized vacuums, guests won't come back to the park? If you ask me, it just seems like everybody needs to find something to be nitpicky about (not you, specifically, RaiderMatt...just a generalization). Would I rather not hear motorized vacuums? Sure. Is it going to make me (the repeat visitor) or a new visitor not come to WDW again? Not in the slightest. Does it take away from the excitement of being in Disney? To me, it doesn't.

RyMickey

 

[raidermatt]

Is anybody going to specifically say "I'm not going back because of motorized vacuum cleaners!"?

Probably not.

But it IS a degradation of the overall experience. Yes, in the big picture its a minor annoyance for most.

But does that make it OK? Particularly when the savings are a mere blip on the screen?

The question shouldn't be "Will anybody not come back because of decision A?". That question is indicitave of a company trying to see how much they can get away with.

In my opinion, that's a very dangerous strategy for a service oriented company.

Its not that this is #1 on my list of things I would like to see changed. Developing some original, family oriented attractions big on WOW factor is much more important, for example.

However, the vacuums are an example of the kind of decisions being made. Its a relatively minor savings gained at the expense of a relatively minor hit to the guest experience.

I don't think making these kinds of decisions is in the best long-term interests of the company.

Here is the key:

Would I rather not hear motorized vacuums? Sure.

Clearly just about every Disney guest would agree, so this does have a negative impact to you. Combine that with a closing of an hour earlier. A long wait for a bus. No Mickey Head Butter. No package delivery to your room. Etc, etc, etc.

Each individually isn't enough to make you not return. But logic dicatates that collectively, they will be enough to keep SOME away, or at least to not visit as often. That's the impact I don't think Disney is giving proper weight to in these decisions.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Thank you Mr. Kidds!!! You knew I’d bite!!

Sorry to disappoint sir Scoop - but it has been a bit quiet of late, so.............

I quite agree. Things have been downright BORING!!! I really can’t understand how the silence is better than conversations. After all, no one’s holding a gun to your head, forcing you to read every word of drivel we put forth. If you don’t like a subject or a poster – SKIP IT!! I know I do!

Anyway, on to the subject at hand.

I got to thinking about some of you guys, and your longing for the "old days" when thinks like vacuum cleaners never littered the sound waves during park hours. Then I got to thinking, was that ever really the case?

Good question. I sure as heck don’t know. I seem to remember them “appearing” in the mid to late seventies sometime. But for all I know, they could have been around from day one at WDW. I really don’t know.

As we were sitting on the curb the "dreaded" vacuums "that never came out during park hours before" were cleaning up the streets.

Well!! I’ve been around here quite a while and I don’t think I EVER remember reading a statement like that. I sure as heck never MADE a statement like that!!! No! I’ve never had a complaint with the ONE pass they make right after the parade. In fact, now that I think about it, I don’t have a complaint regarding “during park hours”. It’s the time right after the Magic Kingdom closes, while Main Street is still open, that never used to happen. It’s the sweeping up and down the street, sometimes two or three in tandem, and especially near the exits that really gets to me and I can safely guarantee that NEVER used to happen!

Or, is it just possible that the "good old days" weren't quite what some remember and those vacuums were always present between parades?

Never said they weren’t. I don’t recall anybody saying it.

My question is, assuming that Main Street was always spotless for the late parade prior to 1990 (which I believe it was), how did it get so clean if those vacuums never came out?

A good question!! And one that Sir Raider alluded to. And I’ll answer it with a question.

You also say that:

They are something I recall from our earliest visits - something I had never really seen before. I thought that they were kind of cool how they could suck anything up with a loud *thunk* (even small children ) and they gave you a nice clean environment in which to wait for the impending Magical parade.

I had never seen them before either. And it occurs to me that sometime between the mid seventies (when I started to notice them) and 1955 they were invented (made, perfected, you pick the right word). Anyway, how was the place cleaned up before their arrival? Think it was any dirtier? Nah!! In fact I’ll bet a whole bunch it was a lot cleaner!!

Maybe with the attendance being higher there was more incidental unintentional "littering" (spilled popcorn and such), but did Disney do nothing prior to 1990 to address this kind of "litter"?

Overall attendance for WDW is certainly higher. But for the MK, closing the park is closing the park. And it doesn’t matter if it’s 1975 (the first time I experienced the gates closing due to capacity) or today! And again I’ll ask how they did it back in 1960? Or 1956? Or even 1970? Do you really think that that noisy, obnoxious machine really put Disney on the cleanliness map?

I don’t think so!! They invented the ‘clean park’ game!! Those damned machines are just a cheaper way to do it. Too bad they didn’t employ the Traditions litmus test to their application and usage!! If they had things would be a whole lot quieter around quittin’ time!!

Don't you agree?

 

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by raidermatt

Each individually isn't enough to make you not return. But logic dicatates that collectively, they will be enough to keep SOME away, or at least to not visit as often. That's the impact I don't think Disney is giving proper weight to in these decisions.

Yep this is key here...its become a problem bigger then the sum of all of its parts.

Another key point here that AV, Baron and Raidermatt keep trying to drive home is that Disney is not doing what it built to do make "quality family wow" based entertainment and servicing the customer. Once they do that everything will be fine in "the world" !

 

[ohanafamily]

Yes, it has been quiet lately. I guess a lot of people were at Dis-Con

I don't even remember the Vacuums. I guess I tune them out. I do remember my first trip to DL many years ago, watching a street sweeper with a certain amazement, and my older brother (who took me) pulling me away and shaking his head (something about give a kid a box and he will be happy )

However, I assume that they are constantly trying to improve the vacuums; Quieter is better!

 

[DisneyKidds]

Thank you Mr. Kidds!!!

You are very welcome, Mr. Baron. Guess what. Scoop is reading every word .

Well!! I’ve been around here quite a while and I don’t think I EVER remember reading a statement like that. I sure as heck never MADE a statement like that!!! No! I’ve never had a complaint with the ONE pass they make right after the parade. In fact, now that I think about it, I don’t have a complaint regarding “during park hours”.

OK, you got me - so maybe I have exaggerated a wee bit, but I'm sure there are some who feel they shouldn't be there.

It’s the time right after the Magic Kingdom closes, while Main Street is still open, that never used to happen. It’s the sweeping up and down the street, sometimes two or three in tandem, and especially near the exits that really gets to me and I can safely guarantee that NEVER used to happen!

..........and I don't see that happening all the time now. Really, not trying to hassle you, but I don't. I guess I have seen it a few times though. Of course, we don't often stay at the MK until an 11:00 close anymore (do they still have those ). However, we have stayed until the 6:00 or 7:00 close and I can't remember being pushed out by the vacuums all the time. We actually did stay until the end of MVMCP last week and there were no vacuums. Is it really the norm now to be ushered out by the vacuums? Maybe it is, I really don't know.

I had never seen them before either. And it occurs to me that sometime between the mid seventies (when I started to notice them) and 1955 they were invented (made, perfected, you pick the right word).

Those damned machines are just a cheaper way to do it. Too bad they didn’t employ the Traditions litmus test to their application and usage!!

Hmmm............so Disney has been on the cheap and had abandoned the Traditions (Standards, whatever you want to call 'em ) as early as 1975? (OK - so maybe I do want to give you a teensy bit of a hard time - but you are right, it has been way too boring around here lately. )

As posted by Europa.................

Another key point here that AV, Baron and Raidermatt keep trying to drive home is that Disney is not doing what it built to do make "quality family wow" based entertainment and servicing the customer. Once they do that everything will be fine in "the world" !

..............but haven't we now established that vacuums were part of the 'golden era' when everything was 'fine in "the World"' and Disney was producing "quality family wow" based entertainment and servicing the customer (that would be the mid-70's), vacuum cleaners and all? Can the vacuums really be labelled a sign of decline?

 

[EUROPA]

Were they there at 6:50 when the park closed at 7:00 pushing you out the door? Where they there running down the street before the parade? I've seen them there have you?

Personally I could care less if they are cleaning up around me, but some people don't like it. As Disney falls deeper and deeper into the hole people start to complain more and more about the little things ...AND YES even if they were always there.

It bugs the hell out of me that fast food places don't give you a bag big enough for all of your food. Does it keep me from going back there? Nope but if the same place stopped serving hot food, gave me the wrong order, and yelled at me in the process then guess what else I would complain about? The small bag.

 

[raidermatt]

..........and I don't see that happening all the time now. Really, not trying to hassle you, but I don't. I guess I have seen it a few times though. Of course, we don't often stay at the MK until an 11:00 close anymore (do they still have those ). However, we have stayed until the 6:00 or 7:00 close and I can't remember being pushed out by the vacuums all the time.

We were in the MK 4 nights through closing over a two week period in May/June of this year. On three of the four nights we saw, and more to the point HEARD, the motorized cleaners. The only night we didn't notice them was a night it was raining.

To be fair, the CMs running these things are polite, and certainly do everything they can not to suck up any small children.

You can probably say that Disney utilizes these machines in a more polite way than most others would.

That said, Disney's standard is not set by what others do. Or at least they didn't become the company they did by just trying to be a little better than others.

 

[raidermatt]

Sorry, I also should have provided the closing times for those nights... All four were either 9pm or 10pm.

 

[seashoreCM]

I would still stay at the All Stars during Pop Warner week despite what one group of people complained about somewhere on these boards -- litter all over the place.

So would they rather have the cheerleading stop at 2:30 AM and then the vacuums come on and then the cheerleading resume at 6 AM?

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

Looking forward to 1/03, All Star Sports

 

[raidermatt]

Since the vacuums are in the parks, I would have no problem with them coming on at 2:30am.