Debate: Should Fire Depts. Charge to rescue you?

[grlpwrd]

Yes, in certain circumstances.

As you may already know Dawn, many people don't heed to caution signs in Hawaii placing themselves and others at risk. I know fire departments there sometimes respond to many types of calls as most are EMTs, too ... I have a friend who is the only female captain in the state and an uncle who is a retired captain.

Hiking off trail when there are signs explicitly stating DANGER then getting into trouble just grates my nerves.

 

[JVL1018]

I don't think it's very fair, but.... you do have to pay for ambulances to come in and rescue you. I guess it would be no different, really, for the fire dept. But it still seems wrong!

Not here, you don't! Only if the paramedics have to come from the hospital, which they only do in the most serious of cases. Ambulance and fire and police, all there for you whenever you need it, no cost.
Ambulance and fire services are all volunteer here..my husband is a firefighter and the only time they make anyone pay for anything is a fine if a business has an alarm that keeps going off due to negligence(uncleaned, spiderwebs etc.)..and even that they let slide most of the time.

 

[JVL1018]

We have a volunteer FD. I think they should receive gas money for each call they assist. My son responded to 100+ calls last year.

Yes, I understand it's volunteer, but he is a college student on a budget who wants to contribute to his community.

That would be nice! My DH gets a whopping $450 a year as a Lt. on the fire dept. for working God knows how many hours for this town. That's a clothing allowance. But he loves it and would probably do it even if he had to pay for the priveledge. LOL

 

[dcentity2000]

Sadly many people would rather take a pill than change their lifestyle.

That hits a raw nerve for me, especially when it comes to anti-depressants and their use in the developed world. Doctor's are all too happy to prescribe SSRIs and TCAs for relatively petty depressions and worse still, people happily guzzle them down thinking that they will cure all ill!

Anti-depressants are for serious, ongoing depressions dammit!



Rich::

 

[Brianne]

We lived in a smallish town that did charge for fire services. It was based on the square footage of your house--the larger your house, the more you'd have to pay. It was somewhere between $250-500 a year for the size of the house we owned at the time, if I remember correctly. If you didn't "subscribe" to the service, they would bill you based on different factors, ie. how many firefighters it took to put the fire out, etc.

Needless to say, we took our chances on that one, as did a lot of our neighbors. Might not have been the smartest thing but you'd wonder just where the heck our tax dollars were going?!

 

[DawnCt1]

Yes, in certain circumstances.

As you may already know Dawn, many people don't heed to caution signs in Hawaii placing themselves and others at risk. I know fire departments there sometimes respond to many types of calls as most are EMTs, too ... I have a friend who is the only female captain in the state and an uncle who is a retired captain.

Hiking off trail when there are signs explicitly stating DANGER then getting into trouble just grates my nerves.

Particularly when it says that they are passing at their own risk. The warning signs on the lava benches are very explicit yet people have hiked to them. In those situations "at your own risk" should equal "at your own expense". If someone injures themselves however on a open trail that is part of a park system, then they should be rescued without punishment.

 

[JulieEck]

I don't think a Fire Dept should charge either except in cases of illegal or intentionally pulling an alarm, etc. I must also say that you don't know who is going to come help you when you call 911. I locked my dd in the car with my keys (she was 2 1/2 at the time) one time. She was buckled into her seat and somehow the lock button had gotten pressed on my key fob. Well, I threw the keys into the front seat (I didn't have any pockets), got out of the back seat and closed the door. Went to open the front door and the doors were locked. Apparantly with my car, you can hit the lock button when doors are open and when the last door closes, all the doors lock. Anyway, called 911 and thought they would send a police car with something to unlock the door since the Police Dept was only 2 blocks down the street, but noooo, they sent the big long fire truck out to rescue her. I thought I was going to die of embarrassment! Maybe that's why they did that. My DH (who had come by, but didn't have the spare key) asked them about paying them something and they said that no, they don't charge when it involves kids. I guess that means that had I called 911 and she wasn't in the car, they would charge. But then I wouldn't have called 911 in that instance since it's not an emergency. I wasn't even sure if I should have called 911 when I did, but the lady that took the call said that yes, locking a child in the car did qualify as an emergency!

 

[mrFDNY]

hi all,
Wow thats a tuff question.Well here in nyc the FDNY has a huge budget.What some people don't know is that at certain events the federal gov't will foot the bill.At the republic national convention at madison square in manhattan last year the whole bill was paid for by the federal gov't.most huge events are.We are requried by law to do training events with the nypd.most recent was 2 weeks ago where there was a mock chemical attack in queens on a train.The gov't set this event up and paid for it.Every time a big guy(presedent or vice or leader of another country )comes to nyc to visit they have a FDNY fire rig and FDNY haz mat and FDNY ambulance follow him thru the streets and go whereever he/she goes.The gov't pays this bill too.If a movie being flimed in nyc wants a fire rig or FDNY ambulance they pay.Now a couple of years ago some drunk moron stole a small plane and flew it around nyc for 3 hours buzzing buildings and bridges,NYPD helicopters spents hpours following him and trying tto talk him to land,which he did in jersey then yes he should have to pay.a normal rescue then no.But when you do something stupid and need us to help get you out then yes you should get a bill.Another example a guy in brooklyn had several exotic pets which are illegal in nyc and was bitten by a posioious snake,FDNY medics took him to the bronx while a nypd car waited and drove lights and sirens to ct to get a antidote or they guy living in the projects in harlem 4 room apt with the 500 pound tiger and 200 pound alligator then yes he should have to pay.

 

[rhon103]

True story: New Orleans--Grandma lives on the second floor. Grandma can't walk down the stairs. Grandma wants to go to the bank. Family calls 911 and the fire department has to respond to go bring her down the stairs. She's sitting up there with her purse in her lap waiting. This type of thing is a regular occurence. If their call is ignored and Grandma gets hurt trying to get down the stairs they will sue in a split second.

 

[ChrisnSteph]

I talked to my dh (a firefighter) about this to make sure I got it right. His department does bill in certain situations. He works for a department that transports their own patients to the hospital, so while they don't bill for the response, they do bill for the transport to the hospital - just as any ambulance company would. The city pays for the firefighters to respond to calls- but they do not pay for the medical care received. So, if you have a car accident and they respond to the call, you would only be charged if you were taken to the hospital. Non-residents get charged more than residents. Exceptions - if the accident was the result of drugs or alcohol, you'll get billed for every unit that had to respond to the call, transport or not. Similar thing with fires. If your house catches fire, there is no charge from the fire department to put it out. However if the fire was due to arson or gross negligence, you're getting a bill. This makes perfect sense. Though our tax dollars pay for local fire and police, what about all the non-residents who use the local services? Or what happens if you're driving in another town and you have an accident - should the tax paying citizens of that city have to foot the bill for the services you require? The money has to come from somewhere, and that's probably the reason they sometimes charge for services. A city should be responsible for the staffing and response of EMS personnel, that's what the taxes pay for. But taxes don't pay for medical care rendered- that's what health insurance is for. Hope this makes sense!

 

[ducklite]

I disagree with fire departments charging.

With that said, my DH has responded to calls so insane, that they need to have a "stupid people charge".

My husbands on an ambulance rescue squad (should be a certified EMT in five weeks woot! ), and they get "Stupid people" calls sometimes. People who really do'nt have an emergency but want a free ride to a hospital so they can be seen in the ER because they do'nt have insurance/primary care doctor.

He was on a call last weekend about a mid-60's woman who's obviously addicted to painkillers and suffers from mental illness. It's too bad that they aren't allowed to tell some of these people they will transport them, and take them to the mental health hospital instead...

By the same token they transported a toddler who had a febrile seizure due to a high fever, by the time they arrived at the ER, the kids fever had broken and he wanted to climb around and play with everything in the back of the rig. It's amazing how kids bounce back so quick! My DH is a kid magnet, and this kid was climbing all over him, poking him in the ears, being a typical toddler.

Anne

 

[AllyandJack]

I think in NH you can be charged to be rescued if they deem it your fault - i.e. you started hiking up a mountain in a massive blizzard and needed to be rescued. But, I think that's the state rescue people.

I had an experience where my psycho neighbor decided to call the cops on me because she thought I was mad at her. I think she should have to reimburse the town for the call and the cost of having the cop come take her report, threaten me with arrest when he banged on my door and I didn't answer (that's because I wasn't home...), come back the next day to berate me for not answering the door, and slink away looking foolish when the conversation was over. I understand they have nothing better to do, but the psycho should have to pay for that time.

 

[marlasmom]

We lived in a small town with a volunteer fire department. To my horror my husband was defrosting pipes with a blowtorch on CHRISTMAS MORNING, caught the sink cabinet on fire and I couldn't get it out. Called the FD. They came in and smashed the floor of the cabinet with an axe and got the fire out in seconds. I stood there saying if I had thought of that I wouldn't have called you. The chief said "that's not your job. It's our job." I felt soooo bad. It was Christmas morning. I knew most of those guys - they all had families. I offered the chief all the $ we had in the house. He didn't want to take it and finally said they would use it for the new pumper fund.

A couple of months later someone had their greenhouse catch on fire and was absolutely furious that they got a bill from the fire department for responding (and saving their business). I thought--and still think--she was a stupid ingrate.

 

[DawnCt1]

A couple of months later someone had their greenhouse catch on fire and was absolutely furious that they got a bill from the fire department for responding (and saving their business). I thought--and still think--she was a stupid ingrate.

You chose to make a "donation", NOT pay a bill. Why would someone with a fire in their greenhouse have to pay for a public service that is already supported by her taxes. Furthermore, as a business owner, she probably pays plenty of taxes. I don't think she is stupid or an ingrate. I think that she is wondering why she is paying taxes if police and fire protection isn't included.

 

[ChrisnSteph]

You chose to make a "donation", NOT pay a bill. Why would someone with a fire in their greenhouse have to pay for a public service that is already supported by her taxes. Furthermore, as a business owner, she probably pays plenty of taxes. I don't think she is stupid or an ingrate. I think that she is wondering why she is paying taxes if police and fire protection isn't included.

It depends on why the greenhouse caught fire. If it was gross negligence, or drugs were involved (what was she growing in her greenhouse) then the fire department would send her a bill.

 

[DawnCt1]

It depends on why the greenhouse caught fire. If it was gross negligence, or drugs were involved (what was she growing in her greenhouse) then the fire department would send her a bill.

If she has a legitimate business that was 'saved', then one would surmise that she was growing legal items. If there was gross negligence, one would think that it would have been mentioned in the "ungrateful business owner" post.

 

[Mad4Mickey]

I do not think they should charge BUT with that being said I would like for each of you who think that thier Taxs are what pays the Fire Dept to look a little further into this .

It is NOT the case. Some of the taxs do go there but not a whole heck of alot , most are used for streets and mainting your city .

Really look into it because sometimes it is not what you think . I only know this because of what they called a Roll Back that happened to my DH dept. The more we looked into it the more we thought it was funny that they wanted to take back the 2% they gave them LOL

 

[Jen_in_NH]

I think in NH you can be charged to be rescued if they deem it your fault - i.e. you started hiking up a mountain in a massive blizzard and needed to be rescued. But, I think that's the state rescue people.

DH and I are both paid FF/paramedics in NH, and volunteer in town when we're home. Both our towns do bill for ambulance services. The only times that fire calls are billed are for intentionally set fires, brush fires after the person had been warned that burning was prohibited, and for large scale hazardous materials incidents.

The state can charge for rescue services for backcountry rescue. They generally have only done it when it was negligence that got the person in trouble in the first place. Someone who fell, got lost, etc does not usually get billed. People who decided to hike Mt. Washington without any gear, in winter, etc probably will get a bill.

I'm not sure if charging for accidental alarms, accidental 911 calls, etc should be charged. For paid departments, there are already people at the station, so responding to them really doesn't change anything. For volunteer departments where people have to leave work or home to come to them, then maybe after it happens at the same location several times, there should be a minimal charge. More to encourage the home or business owner to fix the problem than to cover the cost of a response.

Jen