DEBATE: Please answer some questions for another loyal poster!

[crusader]

Then shame on them...................

I agree with you. It would be so much easier to be able to speak freely and honestly without having to worry about it being misinterpreted or not well recieved. Not everyone is open to communicate that way.

and again I have to ask why?

Who really knows. Could be they can't bring themselves to accept the fact that they just wasted alot of time, money and effort on something which turned out to be far less than what they expected and they are certainly not prepared to admit that to anyone. Especially in this case. caseymaureen is right. So many people have an idealistic impression of the place it is really difficult to get them to discuss candidly what may really be going on. You are dealing with so many variables to the place - fantasy; reality; memory; impression; desire; etc.....
all playing a different role in everyone's perception.

 

[DisneyKidds]

I felt that I needed to clarify that this wasn't a one place or one manager problem.

No need, I realized your initial example was only one and that you had more .

they would just rather think that I am crazy for not enjoying it.

Don't worry, I don't think you are . On the contrary, it looks like you've learned some valuable lessons. Perhaps not lessons that Disney would advertise in the program curriculum, but valuable, real world lessons. Now, if you can determine how Disney maintains the success and general "Magic" impression DESPITE those lessons you will have a good angle to your paper. If you can do that you certainly won't have the typical fluff piece on Magical nostalgic memories........and I'd love to read it. There are two sides to every coin. Speak the truth.......and be confident in your opinions, as you have the experience on which to base them.

It is quite a burden to bear to educate those who don't want to be educated. Just ask Baron, Head, AV, Matt, and a whole host of others how they feel about me (I'm only kidding of course, while I have learned a lot from them they are not always right ).

 

[Walt's Frozen Head]

Disney is supposed to be in the business of making their guests happy, and I believe that the example I gave was an example of very bad business on their part

Well said.

Too often, "your side" of this discussion gets dismissed as being the innocence and naivete of childhood facing the ugly reality of business.

What adorable distress: casey will be all grown up, soon.

It can cast a rather frosty sheen across one's attitude, eventually.

I believe you are correct: Disney has always been a business, but they were doing good business when they had a guest focus and they are doing poor business now that they have a cost focus.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Disney has always been a business, but they were doing good business when they had a guest focus and they are doing poor business now that they have a cost focus.

Would it be your opinion that examples such as Casey cited are a recent phenomenon and didn't happen 'back in the day'?

What adorable distress: casey will be all grown up, soon.

Paint it however you like, but nobody is trying to dismiss Casey's observations. While she may be learning things (while we may all be learning things), it has more to do with living life than growing up. You can keep your frosty sheen and chilly attitude to yourself if you think I was doing anything but trying to have a productive conversation .

 

[CasualObserver]

Kidds,

Why are you so incredulous that people returning from Disney will not want to reveal the downer moments and only focus on the good things?

Go to the local movie house, ask people what movie they saw and then ask them if it was good. Most people will say that it was good. Why? Self-selected audience. They bought the ticket with the expectation that it would be good. Therefore, not wanting to have wasted the money, will focus more on the positive aspects.

It's just human nature. Sure, not everyone will respond in the affirmative, but, in general they will.

It's not about lies or dishonesty, it's about remembering what we want to remember. Disney's design, and image account for a lot of what we want to remember.

Casual Observer

 

[raidermatt]

A few thoughts that I've had trouble figuring out how to tie together, so I decided to just type...

The vast majority of people who said they had a great time at WDW really did have a great time. No "face-saving".

I've sat on benches in the parks and watched people go by. Most of them appear to be perfectly happy, some even truly excited or giddy. Yeah, every once in awhile somebody walks by yelling at their kid, or moaning about the line they just waited in. But its not very many.

Its very easy to forget this when we are moving around the parks taking care of our own business. We become wrapped up in what we are doing, and it takes something out of the ordinary for us to really notice what others are doing. Is walking around having a perfectly pleasant time going to draw attention? Of course not, but being a stick in the mud will, so that's why there is this perception that so many people are having a bad time.

They aren't. Certainly not anymore than they would be if they were anywhere else.

Yes, there are some factors that can increase stress levels at WDW, such as the heat and lines. But for many, this is offset by the stress factors from everyday life that are reduced.

For those that just plain don't handle stress well, yeah, you're going to see a few snap, but for them, that's normal. So when they give you a glowing report, relatively speaking, its completely accurate.

You put a camera on anybody for an entire day and you're going to find a few moments when they don't look like they are having a great time. Since there's thousands of people in the parks at any given time, your bound to see some people when they aren't having their best moments.

But that doesn't make them insincere when they say they had a great trip. So asking why so many people go back when so many aren't having fun is sort of like asking "when did you stop beating your wife". The question is based on a false assumption.


Now, when you talk working at WDW, that's a different story. People expect that you will have fun and be surrounded by pixie dust because that's what they feel when they visit. However, as with many companies, working there doesn't always match the impressions a customer gets. Perfectly normal reaction to say its not all its cracked up to be... but being a professional opportunity, putting a positive spin is almost a necessity. Nobody wants to hear you became disenchanted at your job or internship. Customers won't understand, and potential employers are generally looking for positive, upbeat people.


All that said, when Disney reduces the benefit side of the value equation, there are going to be more disastisfied folks out there. Certainly there are some who have no problem telling you WDW is overrated (I know I've heard it). Maybe there are some who are just upbeat by nature and hate to even discuss the negative. And maybe there are a few that even feel embarassed that they didn't get their money's worth, and therefore just lie about it.

But this has little to do with how many crying kids or unhappy adults you saw in the parks. A dissatisfaction with the value equation being offered isn't going to cause a perceptible change in the number of anecdotal examples of bad behavior we see. Its just going to result in fewer guests.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Observer - I am not unwilling to believe it, I just don't understand it. Crusader put on the dishonesty slant, and maybe he really just meant that people are unwittingly fooling themselves. Either way, I just don't see the purpose. If I go to my movie house and see a stinker, I'll call it a stinker if that is the way I see it. Granted we don't all see things the same, but I'm not about to say one thing when I know I saw another - even if I was the one who made the selection. I don't know why anyone would.

 

[caseymaureen]

Customers won't understand, and potential employers are generally looking for positive, upbeat people.

Now, Raidermatt, don't get me wrong, I am normally a very positive person. I have worked at many different places throughout my life, in restaurants, in hardware stores, and currently at Pacific Sunwear. I have no problem being positive about any one of these jobs. I have learned things and met people that I will remember for the rest of my life. They were, on the whole, positive experiences. I am not the kind of person to be negative about everything, or to back down from a challenge and call it quits. However, the issues and problems I faced at Disney were different than those I have faced at any other job. There were aspects about which I am very postive. I am glad that I went and did the CP because if I hadn't I always would have wondered, "What if?"

Nobody wants to hear you became disenchanted at your job or internship.

I take offense to this because these people did ask me for my opinions and my reasoning, they apparently do want to hear it. And if they don't, they can feel free to skip over my posts. I do not go to job interviews complaining about Disney, and I try to look for the best that came out of the situation. Just because I feel free to express my opinions and my experiences on this board does not mean that I spend all of my time crying over
the 4 months I spent in Orlando. If this is not how you meant the statement, please clarify.

Thankyou for your opinions on my paper topic, they are very insightful and I will be sure to consider them in my writing. People do, however, have bad experiences at Disney. Even before working there, on family vacations (we visited over 30 times) bad things would happen. We'd have problems with room reservations, problems with the food, problems with money, etc. There are many times that we went home unhappy, only months later wanting to go back again. This was the basis for my paper, so although my vacation experience may not apply to everyone, I'm sure it applies to more than just one family.

 

[hopemax]

We have a local talk show, and a few years ago they had a guest, talking about body language and how to tell when someone might be lying. For an experiment he tape recorded his 3 year old son and a friend playing on a piano and kitchen pots and took it out into the streets of Seattle. He told the passerbyes that he was in charge of booking bands at a local club and he had a song from a new band and he wanted their opinion of it. He played the tape for the audience and it was just an average 3 year old dinking around on a piano and playing with the dishes, this wasn't a musical genius in the making. He asked people young, old, professionals, housewives and something like 75% of the people responded that they liked the song, and recommended that he book this new band. The guest went on to point out how you could tell the people weren't being truthful in their opinions, but he did comment that it would be also interesting to find out why so many people were hesitant to provide criticism in the first place.

 

[Planogirl]

DisneyKidds, why does it all have to be so black and white? I can easily tell everyone that I had a good time during each and every trip to WDW. I can definitely tell those persons taking the surveys that this is true. I could also tell the CM's asking the questions that each trip was a little less fun than my previous trips but they never ask the right questions. Surveys are like that though. Ask the right questions and you get the right answers.

This may be in a way similar to what CaseyMaureen experiences. People ask if her time working at WDW was fun and many of them want the "right" answer. They want to hear about their preconceived notions of pixie dust and FUN. If she tells them that the truth isn't all pixie dust it flies in the face of what many want to believe. I for one appreciate CaseyMaureen's posts, they teach me something.

 

[OhMari]

I have visited WDW World twice in my life. When I was 8 years old, I actually was at the Park, peering in through chain link fencing. My great uncle told me, this is where Mickey Mouse will be living. It took me almost 30 years to get there.

I think the timing has to be right for anything. In life I feel there is always a Ying and a Yang. My youngest was 10 years old and my oldest 17. My other two were 12 and 16.

When we were at the Magic Kingdom my 10 & 12 year old loved and it and so did I. My husband and other 2 really didn't care for it, but the made the most of it, cause they saw the excitement on their sister and brother's faces.

We are just a normal family and we do fight, but you have to give a little sometimes.

When we came home I couldn't wait to go back and see things I missed. When I finally did go back it was well worth it. But I found out, there is always something more to do. Disney adds more resorts and other activities and when I got back I read the boards and discovered places at Disney I never knew existed.

I think Disney to some people is like an obsession! The feel they will miss anything if they don't keep going back!

 

[DisneyKidds]

If this is not how you meant the statement, please clarify.

I should probably let Matt clarify, but I don't think he intended this as you read it. I think it was more of a general 'nobody' in the sense that those who are looking to see what you took away from the experience (potential employers) don't want to hear all negatives.

That being said, I think there are ways of being honest and pointing out negative aspects, while being positive about the learning experience they provided. Again, this is in general in response to Matt's comment, and not directed at you as I don't think you are being too negative and you seem to have taken a lot away from the experience, both good and bad, that everyone hear really does want to hear about, including Matt.

 

[raidermatt]

As happens all too frequently, I have not done the best job of communicating my points...

Now, Raidermatt, don't get me wrong, I am normally a very positive person.

I didn't mean to imply that you were not positive. I actually have no idea, and apologize for implying otherwise.

Nobody wants to hear you became disenchanted at your job or internship.

I take offense to this because these people did ask me for my opinions and my reasoning, they apparently do want to hear it. And if they don't, they can feel free to skip over my posts.

Yikes! I really messed that one up. I didn't meant that nobody wanted to hear YOUR opinions on this board. I mean that when discussing experiences in anything resembling a professional situation, like job interview, or even chit-chatting around the water cooler, most people are going to spin things positively for perception purposes, and rightfully so.

Certainly I didn't mean to offend you, so again, I apologize for my lack of clarity. I tried to forewarn by saying I hadn't really tied my thoughts together into a cohesive point or points, but I can see that wasn't an adequate disclaimer.

Just because I feel free to express my opinions and my experiences on this board does not mean that I spend all of my time crying overthe 4 months I spent in Orlando. If this is not how you meant the statement, please clarify.

Hopefully, I've done that.

My points (what there was of them anyway) were not meant to have anything to do with your personal experience.

I guess what I was trying to say was:

1- So many people say that Disney parks are great because they truly think they are great. Not because they feel a need to fib. Instead, I think our perception of how many people really are having a "less-than-magical" experience overall is heavily influenced by the behavior we see that stands out to us, which is negative behavior. Squeaky wheel gets noticed kind of thing. (not you, but those we observe while touring the parks)

2- I think your experience is different than that of a guest who has a bad moment or two because your reasons for disenchantment are rooted in the reality of how things work, and the direction the company is taking. The average guest may see twinges of this, and it may affect their future purchase decision, but its usually not enough to make them feel they had a terrible time then go home and try to convince others otherwise. Its the subtlety of the affect that Disney's direction is having that makes it so hard to see at times.

There are many times that we went home unhappy, only months later wanting to go back again. This was the basis for my paper, so although my vacation experience may not apply to everyone, I'm sure it applies to more than just one family.

Hmmm, well, I'm sure you're right, its just that I won't be of much help here. Of course we have had bad experiences while at Disney, but we've never left unhappy.

When I leave a place feeling unhappy, I don't go back. Unless, I realize the source of the unhappiness was not the fault of the place (like if I caught the flu), or unless something happens to make me believe a change has been made.

While of course there are exceptions, I'm willing to bet the vast majority of folks who return to WDW did not leave unhappy on their last visit. Possibly not happy with every aspect, but overall, happy. (Not counting those who are not happy simply because they have to leave).

Are you really saying your family left dissatisfied with the trip, but later decided to go back? Or is it that you perhaps weren't COMPLETELY satisfied, but still realized going back was a preferable option to going somewhere else?

 

[DisneyKidds]

I for one appreciate CaseyMaureen's posts, they teach me something.

Did I somehow give the impression that I don't? Silly me, I thought I was encouraging her to tell us more, and not just give us the pixie-dusted version of things. She seems to think that people want the pixie-dusted version and it seems you and I agree that we don't.

DisneyKidds, why does it all have to be so black and white? I can easily tell everyone that I had a good time during each and every trip to WDW. I can definitely tell those persons taking the surveys that this is true. I could also tell the CM's asking the questions that each trip was a little less fun than my previous trips but they never ask the right questions.

Again, you lost me. What is it you see that I'm painting so black and white? It seems that some people are saying that there are those who only tell the good, so as not to fly in the fact of their, and others, expectations. That's what I don't get. I don't agree that only one side, either good or bad, of a story should be told. I want the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I agree that you can very truthfully tell someone you had a good time while still pointing out the less than Magical aspects. Did I not get that across?

People ask if her time working at WDW was fun and many of them want the "right" answer.

Perhaps I am making it black and white on this one, but IMHO it doesn't matter what 'right' answer they want - you should give them the whole skinny. If you think it might hurt them you can do it in a sensitive way, but if they asked,they should be prepared for any answer. Maybe I'm the unusual one (hey, keep those comments to yourselves ), but if I were to ask Casey what she thought of the program and Disney from an employee perspective, I would really want to know the truth, good, bad or indifferent. What other reason would there be for asking? If I want to just pretend that everything is Magical there are plenty of other places I can go to hear that - but that isn't how the world works, not even the World - and I think we all know that.

 

[raidermatt]

I made my last post before I read DK's, but I do want to say that DK's clarification is right on (Thanks, DK)... I am most certainly interested in ANYBODY'S Disney experiences, including yours Casey.

 

[crusader]

I want the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

OK so how do you think most people typically respond to the following three questions:

1) Does this make me look fat?
2) How did you like my gift?
3) Do I seem ugly to you?

This is not a new phenomenon and you will not always hear the whole truth when given an answer to the question: How was your WDW trip?

 

[DisneyKidds]

Originally posted by crusader
OK so how do you think most people typically respond to the following three questions:

1) Does this make me look fat?
2) How did you like my gift?
3) Do I seem ugly to you?

This is not a new phenemenon and you will not always hear the whole truth when given an answer to the question: How was your WDW trip?

I'd hardly put "how was your WDW trip" in the same class as those other questions. Yes, there are times when people may choose to be sensitive to people's feelings when answering certain questions, I just fail to see how the truth about one's experience at Disney could be offensive.

 

[CasualObserver]

It seems this is falling into two camps:

1) The "What do you mean WDW isn't fun!"

and

2) People tend to see the good things and overlook the bad


I fall into camp 2.

For those in camp 1, we aren't saying that Disney bites or that we didn't enjoy our vacation, or that the trip was awful but we just lie to everyone.

Instead, we are saying that Disney does a good job of emphasising the good times of our trips that make us want to go back. While there are grumpy times, sweating times, tired-of-standing-in-line times, there are definitely good times and that is what we focus on.

Perhaps it has more to do with people generally being positive in nature. It would take a really miserable person to spend the rest of their days complaining about a vacation. Most people aren't like that.

What Casey is talking about is the question of what does Disney do to make it possible for so many people to overlook the problem times of their trips.

Casual Observer

 

[caseymaureen]

What Casey is talking about is the question of what does Disney do to make it possible for so many people to overlook the problem times of their trips.

Thanks Casual Observer, those are the words I've been looking for!

Matt~ I accept your apology and explanation, thanks for clarifying

And yes, I believe that my family has left the parks unhappy. Times when we didn't get along, and the lines took hours, and the rides were breaking down, and the food seemed particularly bad, and the rental car was crap, and the room window faced a mosquito infested swamp, etc etc etc. I know my mother has said on many many occasions "You know guys, I think that'll be our last Disney trip for awhile. It just isn't fun anymore."
And we go home and think "Maybe we're just Disney'd out...we should go somewhere else..." But then a few months later someone will see a WDW commercial and start bringing up things we did or saw on previous trips and we start thinking "well, you know, the last trip wasn't fun. But the one back in December was, so let's give it another try..." and before you know it we're either in the car or the plane off to Florida. It's selective memory, like has been said. We choose to remember the good times and not the bad, so that we end up wanting to go again.

 

[crusader]

I'd hardly put "how was your WDW trip" in the same class as those other questions.

You're right that was unfair. A poor sick attempt at humor which I really wasn't expecting you to answer. I just couldn't resist once you started to demand the "TRUTH". (I've really got to start using those smilies!)

caseymaureen thanks for telling your story. I can relate to the times your family had things to deal with which made the vacation less than fun. My family did as well but like you we still kept booking trips. My mother recently had one of the worst experiences imaginable yet came home and bought into the DVC. You're absolutely right - it's selective memory which leads us to romanticize this sort of thing. (and some pretty darn good marketing!)

I'm sure you were challenged a great deal while working there. It had to be difficult complying with the demands of management while trying to respond to the everyday needs of the guests.