Debate: Partial Birth Abortion...

[southernclass]

Ummm I don't think taking the EASY way out and KILLING your baby because you are afraid it will be too hard on YOU to raise him/her is being responsible!!!

Responsible is using the proper methods to avoid pregnancy in the first place or like I said earlier, shut em!!!!!!!

If you are responsible enough to have sex than guess what you can deal with the rest!

 

[snoopy]

The majority of abortions done in this country are before the end of the first trimester. The ones that are further along are generally pregnancies which are experiencing some problem-either with the fetus or the mother (a woman I know who had a later term abortion when she was diagnosed with cancer -- she couldn't begin treatment while she was pregnant, but if she waited until the baby was born in over 20 weeks, the cancer would be so advanced it would be fatal). It then becomes a choice of who should live - the woman or the unborn fetus.
The only person who can care for a fetus is the woman carrying it. And no one should be forced to do that against their will. End of story, as far as I am concerned.

 

[Son of the Morning]

double post

 

[Teejay32]

I doubt they're used as a method of birth control and I don't think it's an option anyone can choose. All states already have legal restrictions on late-term abortions and they seem to be done only in cases where something has gone drastically wrong already. So I'm with MHopkins on this particular issue - NOMB.

 

[MosMom]

Southernclass,

Are you ready to adopt one of the crack addicted AIDS babies as a result? If the mother is forced to care for the baby, are you prepared as a taxpayer to cover the huge medical expenses to care for that baby. If you think taxpayers should not have to pay for that, are you prepared to hear on the news that another drug addicted baby with no medical care has died? Are you ready to hear about a higher rate of dumpster babies or babies left in public restrooms? What is worse? Is one better than another? There is no Pollyanna perfect world solution to this.

 

[goofy4tink]

Originally posted by Son of the Morning
double post

So, it looks like you agree with me? PBA in the case that a mother is carrying a fetus that has no chance of survival or the mother's life is in jeapordy. But as a form of birth control...absolutely not!

 

[Son of the Morning]

I support a woman's right to choose unconditionally.

Plus, I think the idea that abortion will be used as "birth control" is downright comical. As if all that it consisted of was stopping in a doctor's office for a few seconds, "pop, there it goes," and then going merrily on your way. I think the use of a condom would be both easier physically and mentally and undoubtedly a hell of a lot cheaper.

 

[Mercy]

Originally posted by tiggersmom2
I am pro-choice but the line is drawn at partial birth abortions IMO. To me partial birth abortions are legalized murder.

ALL abortions are legalized murder. Pro-Choice is just a "nice" way to phrase it.

 

[Pyg Me]

Here is a little truth to add to the discussion:

Pro Choicers tout "womens' rights" as a reason why abortion should remain legal. But, if the aborted child is a female, apparantly they dont give a damn about HER rights.

Pro-Choicers like to confuse the terms "life of the mother" and "health of the mother." Pro-Choicers vehemently want the term "life" replaced with "health." As any reasonable person would surmise, "life" is a very finite term. If it looks like the mother will die at birth, then the Pro-Lifers, begrudgingly, accept the abortion.

Pro Choicers like the term "health" because that can mean ANYTHING! From a bout of depression to a scar from an episiotomy. Anyone can get a Doctor, particularly a doctor who leans toward Pro-Choice, to produce a document that states the mother's HEALTH is a risk. (Not that she has any chance of dying.)

Planned Parenthood (which should be renamed Missing Morality) and other Pro Choice groups REFUSE to define when a baby should not be aborted. Including in cases of PBA.

President Reagan said it best when he quipped, "Have you noticed that all of those who are in favor of abortion have already been born?"

 

[snoopy]

Originally posted by MosMom
Southernclass,

Are you ready to adopt one of the crack addicted AIDS babies as a result? If the mother is forced to care for the baby, are you prepared as a taxpayer to cover the huge medical expenses to care for that baby.

My guess is NO. Its usually the rabid anti choice people who turn their back on the fetus they champion once its out of the womb. Particularly when its born to poverty and strife.

 

[Pyg Me]

Originally posted by MHopkins2
?

Re the "humane" question, I'm not sure what's so inhumane about this procedure. Do we have any evidence that the fetus (or baby, if you prefer) suffers? I know that if I had to choose a way to die, a brain stem puncture causing instant death would be high on the list.

Wow.

 

[tiggersmom2]

Originally posted by Mercy
ALL abortions are legalized murder. Pro-Choice is just a "nice" way to phrase it.

I don't believe that aborting a fetus that cannot live outside the womb is murder. This is MY opinion - I won't change yours and you won't change mine.

 

[Son of the Morning]

Originally posted by Pyg Me
Here is a little truth to add to the discussion:

Pro Choicers tout "womens' rights" as a reason why abortion should remain legal. But, if the aborted child is a female, apparantly they dont give a damn about HER rights.

Pro-Choicers like to confuse the terms "life of the mother" and "health of the mother." Pro-Choicers vehemently want the term "life" replaced with "health." As any reasonable person would surmise, "life" is a very finite term. If it looks like the mother will die at birth, then the Pro-Lifers, begrudgingly, accept the abortion.

Pro Choicers like the term "health" because that can mean ANYTHING! From a bout of depression to a scar from an episiotomy. Anyone can get a Doctor, particularly a doctor who leans toward Pro-Choice, to produce a document that states the mother's HEALTH is a risk. (Not that she has any chance of dying.)

Planned Parenthood (which should be renamed Missing Morality) and other Pro Choice groups REFUSE to define when a baby should not be aborted. Including in cases of PBA.

President Reagan said it best when he quipped, "Have you noticed that all of those who are in favor of abortion have already been born?"

If by "truth" you mean "emotionally-charged-irrelevant-rhetoric," then you're dead on.

Before I'm attacked for declaring someone else's argument "irrelevant," I define it by a situation where if every single rhetorical question that someone raises happens to be true, then it wouldn't change a damn thing.

 

[southernclass]

Originally posted by MosMom
Southernclass,

Are you ready to adopt one of the crack addicted AIDS babies as a result? If the mother is forced to care for the baby, are you prepared as a taxpayer to cover the huge medical expenses to care for that baby. If you think taxpayers should not have to pay for that, are you prepared to hear on the news that another drug addicted baby with no medical care has died? Are you ready to hear about a higher rate of dumpster babies or babies left in public restrooms? What is worse? Is one better than another? There is no Pollyanna perfect world solution to this.

I guess she should have thought about that before her aids ridden butt got pregnant in the first place then!!

Once again, people need to stop thinking of only themselves and think of what the consequences of their actions will be. I guess that is why america is so screwed up because we have a bunch of self centered people who just want to party, do drugs and then have babies they ignore or better yet, hey just kill the child so we can keep on living our pathetic little lives.

I am not saying there are not instances where abortion is necessary but only if the mother's life is at stake. Any other excuse is irrelevant as far as I am concerned.

It does not mean that a child who has a screwed up parent cannot grow up to be an asset to society. No baby born is a mistake and if God grants you such a gift you should respect and honor that.

 

[goofy4tink]

You know, there is an old saying that goes something like this..."I don't agree with you, but I'll defend, to the death, your freedom to have that different opinion." Would I have an abortion? Probably not. It's not the right choice for me. But, I will still defend your right to have one, if that's what is right for you. As I would defend your right to not have one. I am such a fence sitter. I just hate being able to see both sides. For those of you that are Pro choice or anti abortion/choice, nothing we say will make you change that opinion.

 

[Galahad]

Do we have any evidence that the fetus (or baby, if you prefer) suffers?

Actually, we do. The "suffering" is similar to the "suffering" felt by a baby of a few days old that dies from trauma.

The consensus of the OB/GYN community is against restriction to be sure, but also the consensus is that there is never a medical indication for this procedure. There is no time when not doing this procedure will endanger the woman. It is safer to simply deliver the child than to do this procedure.

 

[Pyg Me]

Originally posted by snoopy
My guess is NO. Its usually the rabid anti choice people who turn their back on the fetus they champion once its out of the womb. Particularly when its born to poverty and strife.

BROADBRUSH ALERT! BROADBRUSH ALERT.

I personally know a couple who have adopted 5 minority children and took them from poverty and crack denizens to a rich upper middle class lifestyle.

I talked to a white male yesterday on my run who had three children, two black and one hispanic. All three had physical limitations of one kind or another. He adopted them from places where you would not want your worst enemy to live.

(The youngest was a girl who only had one leg. She was riding her bike (with training wheels) with her purple prostetic leg. She looked as happy as a child can be.)

 

[MosMom]

I guess she should have thought about that before her aids ridden butt got pregnant in the first place then!!

Yes, drug users are always thinking clearly. Yes, people SHOULD do certain things...but they don't and they never will.

 

[Pyg Me]

Originally posted by Son of the Morning
If by "truth" you mean "emotionally-charged-irrelevant-rhetoric," then you're dead on.

Before I'm attacked for declaring someone else's argument "irrelevant," I define it by a situation where if every single rhetorical question that someone raises happens to be true, then it wouldn't change a damn thing.

Glad to see you can debate this in a mature and respectful manner. Thanks for adding to a constructive dscussion.

 

[goofy4tink]

Originally posted by southernclass
I guess she should have thought about that before her aids ridden butt got pregnant in the first place then!!

Once again, people need to stop thinking of only themselves and think of what the consequences of their actions will be. I guess that is why america is so screwed up because we have a bunch of self centered people who just want to party, do drugs and then have babies they ignore or better yet, hey just kill the child so we can keep on living our pathetic little lives.

I am not saying there are not instances where abortion is necessary but only if the mother's life is at stake. Any other excuse is irrelevant as far as I am concerned.

It does not mean that a child who has a screwed up parent cannot grow up to be an asset to society. No baby born is a mistake and if God grants you such a gift you should respect and honor that.

Okay, I know this is going to really start something but here goes....what about the girl/woman who doesn't believe in God? Those of us that do believe sometimes don't take into account that everyone in the world doesn't believe as we do. I believe in God and figure that He/She will deal with those 'sinners' as He/She sees best when they get to those 'Pearly Gates'. If you don't believe in God, then killing a fetus is no biggie. They don't feel that it is 'a gift from God'. I do, but someone else might not. I just can't worry about what everyone else is doing. I just take care of my little corner of the world and let God take care of the big stuff. He/She doesn't need my help.