DEBATE: is health care a right or a privilege?

[Deb in IA]

Originally posted by BedKnobbery2
Because she did not have health insurance, she was denied (in other words, "turned away from") treatment she would have otherwise gotten. As my post implies, they don't have to slam the door in your face to deny you treatment--there are many, more subtle ways, it can be done.

She WAS treated with an exam and a prescription. This is treatment.

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by emmagata
Sounds reasonable to me.

How soon we forget history. Price and wage controls have been tried in the past to one degree or another (remember the Nixon years -- maybe not). They don't work and limiting the profit a company can make is contrary to our free enterprise system.

 

[BedKnobbery2]

Originally posted by Deb in IA
She WAS treated with an exam and a prescription. This is treatment.

True. And putting a band-aid on an amputated limb is also treatment. I stand corrected.

 

[Deb in IA]

Originally posted by MHopkins2
Of course they're not the same thing. But when the lack of tests results in the wrong treatment being provided for the wrong condition, how do you rate the quality of treatment? I vote for mf'ing poor and totally unacceptable, but maybe that's just me??

And do you know for a fact that if "tests" had been done, she would have been guarenteed the correct diagnosis? What "tests" should she have had? I doubt that a DEXA scan would have determined her condition.

"Tests" do NOT equal "diagnosis".

 

[Deb in IA]

Originally posted by BedKnobbery2
True. And putting a band-aid on an amputated limb is also treatment. I stand corrected.

And your HINDSIGHT is certainly 20/20.

 

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by Deb in IA

Medicaid is available for low-income children. The following will give more information about what Medicaid is, eligibility requirements, and service provided.

http://www.cms.hhs.gov/publications/overview-medicare-medicaid/default4.asp


For families who earn too much to qualify for Medicaid, this program was designed for this very purpose. SCHIP has been available for families who earn too much to qualify for Medicaid, but cannot afford private insurance.


http://www.cms.hhs.gov/schip/consumers_default.asp

Of course, actually getting into these programs DOES require some work, motivation, and initiative on the part of the parents. You may actually have to complete some paperwork!!! Of course, if you chose not to do so, you can always complain about not having insurance . . .


And for everyone else, there are mutitudes of private insurance companies, including Blue Cross/Blue Shield.

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Did you actually read the links you provided? Once you get past all the gobblety-gook, do you really know - or understand - what those figures mean? What they actually break down to in terms of eligibilty? Looks good and sounds good - in theory.. The reality is much, much harsher..

As for the private insurances, have you ever known one that was willing to insure a patient who already has cancer - or has been treated for cancer in the past 5 to 10 years? And do you know what the astronomical monthly payment would be for such a policy if it were available?

 

[MHopkins2]

Originally posted by Deb in IA
And do you know for a fact that if "tests" had been done, she would have been guarenteed the correct diagnosis? What "tests" should she have had? I doubt that a DEXA scan would have determined her condition.

"Tests" do NOT equal "diagnosis".

IANAD, so I have no idea. All I know is that when Mom showed up with a checkbook, the child got the correct diagnosis.

Deb, we're actually on the same side of this issue in general. It's just this specific scenario where we disagree.

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by C.Ann
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Did you actually read the links you provided? Once you get past all the gobblety-gook, do you really know - or understand - what those figures mean? What they actually break down to in terms of eligibilty? Looks good and sounds good - in theory.. The reality is much, much harsher..

As for the private insurances, have you ever known one that was willing to insure a patient who already has cancer - or has been treated for cancer in the past 5 to 10 years? And do you know what the astronomical monthly payment would be for such a policy if it were available?

This is why we now have HIPAA -- to guarantee the right to continue health insurance even if there is a preexisting condition.

 

[emmagata]

Originally posted by Eeyore1954
How soon we forget history. Price and wage controls have been tried in the past to one degree or another (remember the Nixon years -- maybe not). They don't work and limiting the profit a company can make is contrary to our free enterprise system.

I was young during those years so I don't remember.

Then I think I shouldn't be charged twice for the same drug.

 

[Bojangles]

Originally posted by MHopkins2
. All I know is that when Mom showed up with a checkbook, the child got the correct diagnosis.

I believe she showed up with a bunch of credit card numbers belonging to wealthy family members.

If you don't have insurance, there are options. Find a free clinic or program that will cover you. Or get a job somewhere that offers insurance. Like Burger King or Walmart.

 

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by Deb in IA
She WAS treated with an exam and a prescription. This is treatment.

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A doctor who "treats" without the proper diagnostic tests should not be treating patients at all..

Did you catch the part about the Tylenol/liver concerns? Had the proper tests been done by the first doctor, she would not have been given medication that actually could have resulted in a serious - if not fatal - medical condition..

 

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by Eeyore1954
This is why we now have HIPAA -- to guarantee the right to continue health insurance even if there is a preexisting condition.

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"Continue" is the key word - and there is a time limit on it as well..

 

[wvrevy]

Originally posted by Bojangles
I believe she showed up with a bunch of credit card numbers belonging to wealthy family members.

If you don't have insurance, there are options. Find a free clinic or program that will cover you. Or get a job somewhere that offers insurance. Like Burger King or Walmart.

Yes, because as we all know, Burger King and Wal Mart are eager to hire new employees who will be taking enormous amounts of leave time in order to have medical problems treated

Don't ya' just love simplistic answers to incredibly complex problems ?

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by emmagata
I was young during those years so I don't remember.

Ouch! (I am feeling my age today.)

Then I think I shouldn't be charged twice for the same drug.

Can you clarify this for me?

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by Deb in IA
Well, I have been a physician for nearly 20 years now, and I know not the slightest bit about business. Wouldn't know an "accounts receivable" from an "operating margin" if they bit me on the arm.

Let's face facts, people. Hospitals NEED to be fiscally stable to remain in open! To do so, hospitals and the people who work in hospitals need to charge $$ for their services, so that they can be paid. If hospitals did not charge money, they would go bankrupt, close up, go away, and then NO ONE would get any care there anymore, now would they???

Do you allow your low income , uninsured patients to pay via a payment plan?

 

[Bojangles]

Originally posted by wvrevy
Yes, because as we all know, Burger King and Wal Mart are eager to hire new employees who will be taking enormous amounts of leave time in order to have medical problems treated

where did I mention someone with a medical problem taking enormous amounts of leave time? If you don't have insurance, find a job that will provide it. I have yet to hear of anyone being turned down at BK or Walmart.

 

[Deb in IA]

OK, Mhopkins.

I guess what I am saying is that I don't know that the mom having a checkbook (instead of insurance, I guess is what you mean) was the cause of the misdiagnosis.

Perhaps, just perhaps, even with insurance, Nikki would still have gotten the same diagnosis.

You know, we doctors are good, but we are not infallible. Doctors in emergency rooms in particular, have as their primary focus TO KEEP PATIENTS ALIVE. They are not primary care. They have never seen most of their patients before, and will probably never see them again. To expect that they will be perfect every time is unrealistic.

News flash, people. Doctors do the best they can. They are not ALWAYS right. Sometimes, we take our best guess, and sometimes we are right, and sometimes not. Sometimes you have to continue the dialog with your health care provider, instead of expecting a one-shot deal.

That is why follow-up is so important, which sounds like Nikki did and I'm glad she's getting better.

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by wvrevy
Yes, because as we all know, Burger King and Wal Mart are eager to hire new employees who will be taking enormous amounts of leave time in order to have medical problems treated

Don't ya' just love simplistic answers to incredibly complex problems ?

I don't know many people who can live off of their salary from Wal Mart or BK either.

I also have worked at BK in the past. They never offered Health Insurance when I was there.

 

[Deb in IA]

Originally posted by EsmeraldaX
Do you allow your low income , uninsured patients to pay via a payment plan?

ABSOL-FRIPPIN-LUTELY.

We are a STATE HOSPITAL and provide several MILLION dollars in uncompensated FREE care every year.

 

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by wvrevy

Don't ya' just love simplistic answers to incredibly complex problems ?

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Very easy for folks who have never had to "walk the walk" or wade into all of these wonderful programs that are supposedly available..