DEBATE: Debunking the AK "half day" myth.

[DisneyKidds]

Originally posted by gbxxxi
Hi!

I have been reading these boards for quite a while, but never quite felt like posting a reply until now (some of you can be a tad intimidating! ). So - I figured, I might as well chime in on this topic.

I do not think that it is possible for any of you to determine what is a "half-day" park for everyone else. A half-day park for me may not be the same as a half-day park for you and vice versa.

That is what makes Disney so special! There is something there for almost everyone - except for maybe the hardcore thrill seekers....

For my wife and I, AK is at least a full-day park. The Studios would be the only non-full-day park for us and even that is an 6 to 8 hour park for us when we go.

It is a personal feeling as to what constitutes a half-day park or not. It is not something that is so cut and dry that a park can be labeled a half-day park for everyone. Just my two cents.....

Mark

I like the first post - and hope we see more. Well, said!!!

How did you calculate the numbers on the first post?

Using an absolute off season, ultra low crowd example is not going to provide any kind of useful analysis when you have people who are going in both January and June, so I looked for more balance, and still went with short numbers.

First off, as I said - my numbers include some time to actually make it to where the ride is and that is good for 2 to 5 minutes. So, lets take Kali. First - if you did 2 rides in 20 without getting off it means that the first ride took 15, and I can personally attest to waiting in the line for 5+ minutes with a FP - I rest my case on that one. Primevil - I assume they didn't make you get off that one either - so again, the first ride had to be almost 15, with no line. First week of December I rode, with FP, and waited for about 10 minutes in the line. Triceratops I have ridden in 5 minutes, but have also taken 25. You waited 15 minutes for Lion, plus it took you 5 minutes to walk there and the show is what, at least 20 minutes - add it up. The amazing thing about the Disney parks is that things take you more time than you think, when you consider everything. You need to look at averages in these kinds of analyses - and I went on the low side of average.

If we use your figures (which I think are flawed)

Bring it on my Snacky friend , I defy you .

Day off of work, Mr. Kidds? Or perhaps we just didn’t take our meds today!

Good to hear from you too, Baron . They never should have let me out of the home (hehehehehe, bwaahahahahahahaha). Lots o' people coming out of the woodwork - you know you love it!!!! Ah, responding to the Baron in the late night. Just like old times .

Why yes, you did just say "Pish"! What's up with that?

As per Websters..................

Main Entry: pish
Pronunciation: 'pish
Function: interjection
Date: 1592
-- used to express disdain or contempt

So, once again, pish!!! .

There are VERY few people who do each and every last attraction in every park.

Agreed. But does Disney design parks for individual people? I say no. I believe they are designed for families. AK is well designed for most average families - you know the ones with 2.5 kids. IMHO, if you are a family consisting of two parents and two or three kids ranging in age from 3 to 15, AK will take time. Sure, not everyone is going to ride everything, but if you hit them all together as a family you will spend significant time. While not everyone will like every ride, chances are that within a family of 5 there will be at least one person who does like each of the rides. I might like 4, wife likes 3 others that I don't, junior likes a couple others we didn't hit, and little Bobby another, and Janie a few more. So amongst the whole family you will likely hit most everything. Sure, the same thing in MK takes two days, but no way a half day at AK.

For the individual person, yeah the AK has problems filling a day if that person only wants to hit favorites. Any park can be done in 'half time' if that is all you do, MK included. But MK was designed to be a two day park, and AK a one day park.

PS - In my double blind survey of family park touring trends it turns out (so far) that 9 out of 10 families prefer touring together. So, if you are a family of 5, each family member having 3 different AK favorites (not a stretch by any means) you are going to have to cover just about all of the true attractions. No way you do that and keep everyone happy in a half day.

 

[ASFCurly]

I think a big problem with Animal Kingdom is that people don't really give it a chance because they assume they won't like it.
When I went on my last trip (only trip so far) I really didn't want to go, I really thought it would be stupid, but my Mom really wanted to, so we compromised and right before we left the last day we went to AK and did Lion King and Safari, I liked the AK so much when I actually got there, despite the fact that I thought that it would be dumb that I really didn't want to leave after only doing those two things, and this is from someone who went very relunctantly and wouldn't have gone at all if my Mom hadn't come.

 

[sorcerermikey]

Most everyone who "disagrees" with you, for lack of a better way of putting it, has conceded that "half day" is just shorthand for saying AK is LESS. The perception that it is less is even reinforced by the closing time. And yes I know all about the animals need to go to sleep rationale but why does it close at 5:00 most of the year but 6:00 on Holiday week. Yes hours are cut back across the board but it still closes earlier than the others regardless of peak/off peak. This is perceived by many as Disney advertising it as LESS.
It could take 3 days to do it, or 4 or 5 but it the point remains it's LESS than the others.
Please answer Baron's questions. What do you perceive as the problems and why wouldn't 10 more attractions change it? The more interesting debate is what would "fix" it.
Does this come across as a bit uppity for a first post from a lurker? I apologize in advance if it does, certainly didn't mean to.

 

[SnackyStacky]

Bring it on my Snacky friend , I defy you .

I don't have access to exact times, nor do you. You're only going on YOUR experiences. When I said I thought they were flawed, I didn't mean that mine would be right, just that nobody can be sure. So, defy this Kidds!

Agreed. But does Disney design parks for individual people? I say no.

You're absolutely right. They don't. But you even agreed that people who like EVERYTHING are in the minority. If you're a family, traveling with kids, maybe it is a full day park.

So I'll restate my opinion, choices are limited at the Animal Kingdom. Because as many have said, trying to label it half day or full day is way too personal. For you, it's a full day park, for me it's a half day park. But anyway you care to talk about it, the attractions are limited, the hours are limited, and quite frankly the park is limited.

The detail is gorgeous. There's lots of it. But that's an aside. The purpose of a theme park is rides. THAT'S how you keep people there. The rest is how wonderful of an experience you're going to have, but what the heck good is it if there's not enough there to hold somebody's interest.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Originally posted by DisneyKidds
Good to hear from you too, Baron . They never should have let me out of the home (hehehehehe, bwaahahahahahahaha). Lots o' people coming out of the woodwork - you know you love it!!!! Ah, responding to the Baron in the late night. Just like old times .

Typical Mr. Kidds!! A non-answer answer!! You didn't happen to work for the Nixon White House back in the '70's, did you? If not it's too bad. You're a natural!!

Now!! How about answering the question!

Thanks.

 

[Bob O]

The excuse that the animals have to go to bed is total BS!!!!!
Why can other zoo's and parks like Busch Gardens Tampa Bay be open much later and their are no reports that any animal is suffering in the least!!!
That isnt the reson the parks close early, the lack of any crowds in the late afternoon is why the park is closed early which answers the question posted!!!!
If the park had a full days worth of activites then you would have long lines until the park closed with rests/ shops opened to serve the customers, but that isnt needed because people leave way before the scheduled closing time because they run out of things to do!!!
And this is why Epcot/MK have long lines till park closing, they are full day parks and its easier(unless one wears blinders or has overdosed on pixie dust ) too see the difference!!
The guests speakwith their feet and they use them to leave AK earlt because they have done all they want to do,but if their was more to do they wouldnt leave as early as they do!!

 

[Jeff in BigD]

I only skimmed through the first page, so apologies if I retype points already made.

The thing is, sure, they have filler, but how many of this attractions can be called e-ticket? Dinosaur is a poor man's Indy, it's sad to know what it could have been & the sad reality of what it actually is. Primeval Whirl is an eyesore. Safari is decent, but it's one of those rides most people only ride once a trip - unlike something like Haunted Mansion. Tough To Be A Bug is cool, but it just doesn't have that "Oomph" to make it a marquee ride - also seems like most people only sit through it once per trip. I also think the park itself is designed poorly, layout-wise.

The fact that the park opens at the butt crack of dawn & in the late afternoon does nothing to dispell the zoo label. A lot of people on vacation want to do something they're not able to the other 50 weeks of their year - sleep in. Getting up at 6am to go to a zoo with rides isn't my idea of fun. Most people probably make it out to the park at 10 or 11am & when the park closes 5 or 6 hours later a lot of the walking cuts out attraction time. When the park closes, my guess is if you asked every guest walking out if they would spend $50 for a "full day" in the park I think it's a safe bet that most would say no. Next trip I'm probably not going top even waste hopping time to take a bus over to AK.


And IMO I'd take a day at DCA over DAK any day of the week.

 

[airlarry!]

If you can visit a park and reasonably see most of its attractions, with some eats and treats thrown in in six to eight hours....then Monsieur DK, you have just defined to a reasonable certainty The Half Day Park.

Eight hours may be a full day at the home office...but it is just barely over a half-day in my book.

Take the MK...How many people can 'reasonably see most of its attractions, with some eats and treats thrown in, in six to eight hours?"

None.

I would bet you a pound of boudin that most people can reasonably 'do' the AK in six to eight hours. Show of hands here...who thinks six to eight hours of touring is a full day...maybe this goes back to the days when I remember the MK opening at 7 and closing at midnight or beyond.

 

[PKS44]

Looking at DK's explanation about how long it takes do stuff is damning the AK park all by itself...In order to fill the "whole" day you have to include time to get to the rides and waiting for them...the attractions are so few and so spread out---no wonder so many find it so unsatisfying no matter how much time it takes to "do" the park.

Sure the other parks have lines- but none have the one land/one attraction feel of so much of old "half-day" AK.

Paul

 

[disneychrista]

Originally posted by airlarry!
If you can visit a park and reasonably see most of its attractions, with some eats and treats thrown in in six to eight hours....then Monsieur DK, you have just defined to a reasonable certainty The Half Day Park.

I personally can not see how anyone can see most of AK attractions, eat lunch, and at least one snack/treat, and don't forget the potty breaks that most families have to have a couple times each day, in 6 to 8 hours.

As others have said it is all on what you want to see. If you only want to hit the "main" attractions then yes, 6 - 8 hours will cover it. But if you are going to hit the main attractions and take time to see the animals, go on the trails, do any character meet and greats etc. then it is going to take twice that, at least. We spent two 6 - 8 hour days at AK in early December and still did not get everything in the park done.

 

[kimmar067]

If you had a choice to pay $50, and $50 only, for a park per day (in other words, no more multi-day passes!!) who would purchase a ticket for AK?? (sounds like a poll to me !) I'd almost bet that there would be few (if any ~ probably lst timers) eager to purchase a ticket to AK......

 

[gbxxxi]

Good question, kimmar....

I am sure that you are correct that most people on this board would not purchase a separate ticket to AK, but I would definitely be one who would buy an AK ticket. And - I am not a first-timer to Disney.....

 

[kimmar067]

...will get us nowhere, but I'd like to bring home another point regarding the "$50/day ticket" issue. Most guests of WDW probably purchase a multi-day pass to visit the parks, and they probably visit AK because of that reason. If you have unlimited access to the parks, most people would probably visit AK for that "half-day visit" and still have plenty of time to squeeze in the rest of another park that they've missed on a previous visit (ie: perhaps going to MGM to catch Fantasmic) I doubt that it would be the other way around....JMHO

 

[DisneyKidds]

Does this come across as a bit uppity for a first post from a lurker? I apologize in advance if it does, certainly didn't mean to.

Nope, not at all . That would be two people that have come out of lurk mode for this thread. I can't think of any greater measure of success for a thread . Welcome aboard.

When I said I thought they were flawed, I didn't mean that mine would be right, just that nobody can be sure. So, defy this Kidds!

Aw, come on Mr. Snacky, you can play along better than that . By the way, that defy was all in good fun . That's ok if you don't want to attack my logic, as I am sure you thought about it and came to the truely logical conclusion that it is not nearly as flawed as you originally thought it was .

Now!! How about answering the question!

Hey, who's thread is this . What was the question? . Two posts from Baron on one thread. That is fairly rare lately. Another measure of success (in my book at least).

If you can visit a park and reasonably see most of its attractions, with some eats and treats thrown in in six to eight hours....then Monsieur DK, you have just defined to a reasonable certainty The Half Day Park.

Your Airness, all I attempted to illustrate was that you need more than 8 hours after you pass thru the AK gates to see the headline attractions. Throw in a couple of meals, along with all the other minor sights to see, and you are easily up to 12+ hours. I did not say you could do what you describe above. In fact, we probably spend about 12 hours in the AK per trip (over the course of 2 days) and we don't see everything.

If you had a choice to pay $50, and $50 only, for a park per day (in other words, no more multi-day passes!!) who would purchase a ticket for AK??

After we plunked down our $50 for the MK, AK would be next in line. But that is because we are a...........

family, traveling with kids, for which it is a full day park.

.
I do realize that "half day park' is just a euphamism for 'less of a park than the MK/Epcot'. So what, big deal. It is still chock full of a full days worth of activity. Therefore, it can be, and for many is, a full day park. For others it isn't. That is one of the best things about WDW. Take from it what you want, and have your own fun.

Now about those other problems................................

 

[disneychrista]

Originally posted by kimmar067
If you had a choice to pay $50, and $50 only, for a park per day (in other words, no more multi-day passes!!) who would purchase a ticket for AK??

If there were no more multi-park passes, we would be still go to AK. During a 5 day trip, we would probably go to AK once. a 10 day trip twice.

 

[SnackyStacky]

By the way, that defy was all in good fun

I know. Did you miss the smooth face?

So, defy this Kidds!

ANYWAY...

That's ok if you don't want to attack my logic, as I am sure you thought about it and came to the truely logical conclusion that it is not nearly as flawed as you originally thought it was

I know that that was also in good fun, but c'mon. You're clamoring for neutrality in evaluating the park, but here you're using figures that YOUR family uses. I'll get into this a little more in depth, but you have a family? I'm assuming? With kids? Peachy! Good for you! But THAT'S why your numbers are flawed. Little legs take a lot longer to cover the same ground as my 6'1" frame. Little bladders need to empty FAR more frequently than mine does. All of these things skew your numbers. You'd have to take a sample of guests from ALL age ranges, and take an average of the walking times.

I think the first thing that needs to happen here is to have the title of the thread changed. All it currently serves to do is to allow personal "agendas" (for lack of a better word) into the debate. As far as I'm concerned, it should read "Is Animal Kingdom less than the other parks?", because people can insist that it IS a full day park every bit as much as I can insist that it isn't.

And it IS less. Look at the attraction count. And I can hear the "but the detail is amazing" until people are blue in the face, but it doesn't phase me. The other parks are immensely full of detail too. Not the same type of detail as Animal Kingdom, but detail nonetheless.

Not everybody has a family. I'm not saying that Disney needs to cater to a specific demographic at ALL, I'm just saying that because you DO have kids, and it takes you longer to get from one place the next, you WILL have a different perception than I do, or than a retired couple enjoying it without kids! Because they have such a diverse audience, they need more choices for the tons of different tastes, likes, and dislikes that walk through the turnstiles everyday.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Originally posted by DisneyKidds

Hey, who's thread is this . What was the question? . Two posts from Baron on one thread. That is fairly rare lately. Another measure of success (in my book at least).

And this makes three!! To another non-response-response!! And tiss truly your thread, but I didn't bring it up - YOU DID!!! All I want is clarification! So give with some answers!! ($coop alert - double quotes coming )

I agree that AK has problems.

Care to delineate those problems from your perspective?

And…

However, I don't think adding another 10 attractions is going to solve those problems, do you?

Why wouldn’t “adding another 10 attractions” (assuming of course they were “Disney” attractions) help?

So how about it Mr. Kidds? Get off your slanted personal perspective on this issue and dive into it the way SS wants you to. And my exploration of your comments is a perfect starting point!

 

[airlarry!]

I think M. Snacky Stacky has a great point. I was playing this thread by M. DK's rules...that he took for granted his family needs at least eight hours to 'do' the park. As an aside, but I think it is relevant, I think of the parks in days per the old Sehlinger Command Touring method. Not that I use the method, I'm only using it for reference. Both Epcot and the MK warrant two day plans. AK does not. Commandos can do AK in much less then 8.

How 'bout this analysis...

If you were to hit the AK commando-style, you could reasonably hit all but one or two of the attractions before 4:00...and still have time to spend a half-day somewhere else.

Or if you were take a nice easy eight or nine hours touring just about everything in AK, you should still have time to visit another park. Because the park closes so early anyway.

This reminds me of when MGM opened. And I'm wondering if anyone else is like this...it is rare that my family can stay at one park from 7:30 until midnight. We do it differently....we either get there before 8:00 (if allowable) and tour until 11:00 or 2:00 (depends on how we feel), rest up at the hotel with an eat and a swim, and then head back to a different park (sometimes the same but usually a different park).

It's like ice cream. It's great by the scoop, but trying eating all 31 flavors in one session. AK is always the park that we stay until 2 or 3 and then rest up for a night visit to the MK or dinner at Epcot.

 

[King Triton]

Yep, you can do Epcot today in 2 hours. just kidding

I do think AK needs a beastly kingdom addition. Some cool roller coaster rides and at least another dark ride. AK does close at dusk - adding some new e ticket rides could extend the hours till late evening. Just my thougths.

 

[abitjaded]

Just what happens with us, two adults and two kids, 6 and 9. We go to AK a couple times each trip, off-season, so no lines, we arrive at opening and leave at closing.

We still never manage to do the whole park, we cannot see all the shows. We ride Dino a couple times and Kali a couple times and always do Safari at least twice, and yes we even can ride it 3-4 times in one day. We have not managed to catch the bird show in the last three trips, nor can we ever seem to ride the train and hit Conservation Station (I love the Rain Forest sound thing). We could easily stay in the park a couple more hours, if the shows had more times available, I miss dinner at Flame Tree or Tuskers, with an end of the day glass of wine. We can also spend hours in the Asia and Africa trails, and I have never had enough time to watch the birds near the entrance, and have never managed to catch Devine. Yes, the experience reminds me of MGM in the early years as airlarry! says (and sadly still reminds me of MGM now, I'd rather skip MGM than AK).

Carla