DEBATE: Busses

[Cricket2]

Name what you think the #1 problem is with the bus system at WDW.

I don’t want to hear what #2 or #3 etc. are, just what you think #1 is. If you don't have an opinion (yeah right), let me hear what you think others would say.

There’s more to come if I’m right. Yes, this could become a rumor after the fact.

Please keep the answers sort of short for now if you can.

 

[Sarangel]

Their erratic schedule.

If they had a regular, posted schedule there would be considerably less anecdotal data that people had to wait "over an hour" for a bus to their desired destination. I know they are supposed to follow a schedule, but I don't believe that they do. I also believe that it changes according to whim, phase of the moon, park attendance or if the big ME feels like it.

Sarangel

 

[Cricket2]

So is the problem with the schedule or the wait?

(You will see a pattern here shortly)

JC

 

[Cricket2]

I just noticed the label, and I hope this doesn't turn into a debate.

This isn't a right or wrong thing. I just want to know what you think before I give out some info I learned 5 months ago.

JC

 

[grinningghost]

They leak when it rains.

 

[Lesley]

I think Sarangel's point is that if there were a schedule posted, and the schedule was followed, there would be no complaints about wait times. If you knew another bus was not scheduled for an hour, you wouldn't wait. The only factor I can see throwing things off are the times when the busses are full.....it would be rather upsetting to wait 20 min. for a bus, not be able to get on, and then have to wait another 20 min. or so. But I'd assume they'd schedule busses more frequently during those times.

I don't think it's possible to pinpoint one major problem with the bus system, as there are numerous issues that need to be handled. If I'd have to sum it up though....I'd have to agree with Sarangel's statement of "their erratic schedule" because you can never know for sure if another bus is coming soon.

As a person who has stood at an Epcot bus stop for a deluxe resort holding a sleeping 23mo. child for over 40 min. faithfully expecting the whole time that a bus would come soon...I agree with her assessment. Had I known it would be 40 minutes we could have stayed in the park longer, put dd in the stroller, etc....but not knowing was the major problem.

 

[Another Voice]

The biggest problem – that the Company treats them as the primary means of moving people instead of just the back-up.


By the way, the busses are supposed to be a sort of scheulde. I was on one once that skipped a stop (my stop) because the driver was late.

 

[Cricket2]

Originally posted by Lesley
because you can never know for sure if another bus is coming soon

That's what I was looking for. I could have posted it myself, but I wanted someone else to do it first.

What would you say to a bus system that can tell you exactly (within 15 seconds barring "traffic jams") how long your wait will be on both LED displays at the bus terminals and on your room TV?

Had I known it would be 40 minutes we could have stayed in the park longer, put dd in the stroller, etc....but not knowing was the major problem.

Can you say Fast Pass for the bus system?

I saw a system in action in Las Vegas from a company called CES Wireless Technologies. They had a control server set up so a limo company could track the EXACT location of each shuttle bus they had it set up with (12 or 20 I can't remember). The tracking system isn't all that new, but the AI software that calculates time vs. distance was new. I saw 6 busses come in their local loop (that's what they called it) within 30 seconds of the projected time. The operator said it took them 4 days to get it tuned that closely and he was expecting the software to get within 15 seconds by the end of that week.

He said (granted, I don't know this guy) it was being set up there so they could track the data accuracy to present it to Disney for their bus system (he actually said "transportation system", I was assuming the busses).

Whaddya think?

JC

 

[PKS44]

Sounds like a practical improvement to me. Would definitely improve the mood of those waiting. The problem is that they are still not very "magical." Again I undertand the Tokyo buses used are silver streamlined buses with Mickey shaped windows.

Paul

 

[CarolMN]

IMHO, the #1 problem with the buses is guests' expectations. Too many take their "hurry up/got to get it done/stressed out/ can't stand to be in a crowd/got to get my $$ worth or else" attitudes and expectations with them on vacation. Those expectations get applied to the buses (and other WDW transportation). If you consider the total number of trips taken on WDW buses, the percentage of longs waits & problems is really very small.

It would be nice to know when a bus was coming, but that wouldn't stop the complaints. We'd still hear complaints about how the schedules weren't acceptable and the waits are too long.

 

[Sarangel]

Sorry about the Debate tag, Mr. J Cricket. It's a convention we use around here for those items that aren't rumors. Kinda grey & fuzzy, I know.

The locator for busses sounds good, in theory, but you'd have to factor a bunch of different things in - wheelchair access, stroller loading/unloading, large parties at the stops, traffic, others that I'm sure I'm missing...

I'm sure it would help, if feasible.

Sarangel

 

[raidermatt]

Knowing how long it will be until the next bus comes is helpful, but the bottom line is still the frequency.

If the wait is 40 minutes, I think most people would prefer to have a bus in 20 minutes, as opposed to just knowing it will be 40 minutes.

That's not to say the technology would not be helpful. Besides just providing info on when the next bus will arrive, Disney dispatchers could use the info to spot gaps in the "schedule" as they develop. This would allow them to make better decisions about diverting busses, or where to add/remove busses and at what time.

 

[Cricket2]

The locator for busses sounds good, in theory, but you'd have to factor a bunch of different things in - wheelchair access, stroller loading/unloading, large parties at the stops, traffic, others that I'm sure I'm missing...

Besides just providing info on when the next bus will arrive, Disney dispatchers could use the info to spot gaps in the "schedule" as they develop. This would allow them to make better decisions about diverting busses, or where to add/remove busses and at what time.

One of the main points on the backend with the new AI software is that it will eliminate almost all dispatcher type activities and program the schedules automatically after a set up period. Remember it's not the locator hardware that's a big deal, it's the backend software.

I'm sure it would help, if feasible.

I know the cost on some of the basic equipment, but the software and system setup would be the major bill. I wouldn't even hazard a guess. Not cheap, but not overly expensive either.

The other side of the coin here is this would make retrofitting all of the rooms with addressable televisions much more desirable. You would gain other benefits from this system that had nothing to do with the bus system.

View your bill on the TV.
Check/make Priority Seating arrangements.
Messaging/email
Allows pay per view movies
Integration with possible new ticket media wink-wink
etc.


JC

 

[Cricket2]

Originally posted by Another Voice
By the way, the busses are supposed to be a sort of scheulde. I was on one once that skipped a stop (my stop) because the driver was late.

I always thought thay had to at least slow down so you could jump off?

JC

 

[raidermatt]

One of the main points on the backend with the new AI software is that it will eliminate almost all dispatcher type activities and program the schedules automatically after a set up period. Remember it's not the locator hardware that's a big deal, it's the backend software.

So it would only solve the problem of knowing when a bus would arrive, but have no impact on dealing with big gaps that develop due to daily issues?

If that's the case, its ok, but it doesn't solve the problem of what to do when you are waiting for a bus to MGM and its 30 minutes behind schedule...

People say they just want to know when a bus was coming, but the reality is that if the busses never get more than 10-15 minutes apart (maybe 20 in slow times), not knowing when the next one is coming wouldn't be much of a problem. If we could rely on the fact that a bus would be coming in no more than 15-20 minutes, we wouldn't stress so much over when it was going to come.

 

[Cricket2]

Originally posted by raidermatt
So it would only solve the problem of knowing when a bus would arrive, but have no impact on dealing with big gaps that develop due to daily issues?

To the contrary, it's designed (or so I was told) to compensate for the daily surges and lulls that plague the system the way it is now. Don't get me wrong, during slow times you will probably get less busses to make up for the cost, but when they are needed they should show up one right after another on time.

I really don't see how it can deal with the massive post-firework dump that parks can generate, but I can tell you for certain, if I see "40 min" I'm going to do something else rather than stand in line.

This was a main control unit I saw and not what the public would see I assume. It was a small green LCD display rather than the larger LED display he spoke of.

JC

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

WOW!! Great topic! And I second Sarangel’s thoughts!

If they had a regular, posted schedule there would be considerably less anecdotal data that people had to wait "over an hour" for a bus to their desired destination. I know they are supposed to follow a schedule, but I don't believe that they do. I also believe that it changes according to whim, phase of the moon, park attendance or if the big ME feels like it.

I’ve complained about this one even before my blinders were ripped off in 1998. And as an aside for Mr. Kidds, Peter and Scoop, the transportation has ALWAYS sucked around WDW! And the current bus system stinks just as bad (if not worse) than ever!!! And for the exact reasons that Sara pointed out. Their erratic schedule.

And I have to disagree with Sir Raider.

If the wait is 40 minutes, I think most people would prefer to have a bus in 20 minutes, as opposed to just knowing it will be 40 minutes.

I’ll agree that more would be better, BUT I’d certainly settle for a bus every hour IF they stuck to the schedule!

Think about it. You’re going to Italy for Dinner at 7:00 pm. It is 3:00 pm and you’re at Typhoon Lagoon. What time do you pack up and head back to the room in order to take a shower, dress and make it all the way across EPCOT by 7:00? With kids in tow!

Yeah! I know! I’ve been going for thirty years and I haven’t got a clue either!! I’d say pack it in NOW and maybe, if the Disney gods are smiling, we may just make it!! (Of course, if my wife happens to disagree, you can bet that we’ll wind up arriving more than an hour and a half early!!!! Time that she wanted to spend at the wave pool!) Of course if I could absolutely count on an accurate schedule I could plan out the day!!! As it is now – WHO KNOWS!!!!

Now the TV thing sounds great, and it’s certainly a step (a giant step even) in the right direction. But as great as this plan is, it still doesn’t help out with the little dilemma I outlined above. I still don’t know what time to tell the kids to get out of the water!!!

Or what about Lesley?

As a person who has stood at an Epcot bus stop for a deluxe resort holding a sleeping 23mo. child for over 40 min. faithfully expecting the whole time that a bus would come soon...I agree with her assessment. Had I known it would be 40 minutes we could have stayed in the park longer, put dd in the stroller, etc....but not knowing was the major problem.

I feel your pain!! Been there!! Many, many, many times!!! And I do not like it at all!! (And you’re right!! Leaving EPCOT in the afternoon is HORRIBLE!!!!)

So, while I like it, it only goes half way. But it’s better than nothing!!

--------------------------------

The biggest problem – that the Company treats them as the primary means of moving people instead of just the back-up.

I know you said ONLY one, but I couldn’t resist seconding AV’s point as well. I guess reality says the schedule bothers me most, but philosophically this is of the utmost importance!!



PS: One last unrelated thought.

I really don't see how it can deal with the massive post-firework dump that parks can generate, but I can tell you for certain, if I see "40 min" I'm going to do something else rather than stand in line.

I know!! It’s easy! STOP ENDING THE NIGHT ON AN EVENT LIKE SOME CHEAP CARNIVAL!!!!

Thanks for the opportunity to sound off on this issue!!

 

[Peter Pirate]

There you go again LB, grouping a bunch of us together just knowng we'll be 'positive' about the busses...

Well...I am a bus user and yes it is true that I seldom get irritated or angry by the tribulations the system may put me through. I'm on vacation when I'm at WDW and if I'm going to let a 20 minute wait that turns into a 40 minute wait eat me up inside, man I'm going to just quit going.

As for planning, well we don't do much of it. But for our meals we plan specifically to be able to get to and from our destination reasonably. If it can't be done we make other plans. I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

To me there is nothing really good or really bad about the busses. They are what they are and I'd rather have the system as it is instead of driving, but I agree wholeheartedly that the better they can maintain a schedule the better off we all are.

 

[raidermatt]

I guess I should point out that I personally have not had many issues with bus timing. I don't think I've ever had to wait more than 15, maybe 20 minutes for a bus. My wife did experience close to an hour wait once on our last trip. My buddy and I were playing golf, while our wives did the Spa/shopping thing. I think they were trying to get from DD to the GF, but I'm not sure. What I do know is that after about an hour, one of the other people got on one of the empty or near empty busses going to another destination and told the bus driver they were not budging until he agreed to take them to the GF (or wherever it was).

And he did!

We now refer to this as the "hi-jacking incident".

But other than this, no issues.

I’ll agree that more would be better, BUT I’d certainly settle for a bus every hour IF they stuck to the schedule!

I think conceptually I agree. If the waits are going to be consistently long (say 20+ minutes), then sticking to a consistent schedule with longer intervels would be better.

But I just don't think that would solve the problem for a lot of people and would make it worse for many (because of the greater intervals).

If its once an hour, and I miss the bus, YIKES! I know, the answer is don't be late, but as you said, when you've got kids/friends/etc in tow, "stuff" happens. Using your example, let's say the busess you needed ran on the hour. You'd have to wait for the 4:00 bus out of TL, arrive in your room at 4:20-4:30 or so, and you better have the clan showered/dressed and waiting at the bus stop within 90 minutes.

Of course, you could gather the flock at around 2:30 and get out to the TL bus stop by 3:00, but wouldn't it be better if you just knew you wouldn't have to wait more than 20 minutes for a bus, no matter when and where you showed up?

I realize guaranteeing no more than 15 or 20 minutes is not easy, but that's where I think this new technology could be better used. How many times do we see two or three MK busses arrive within a 10 minute span, with the 2nd and 3rd being nearly empty? If a dispatcher were monitoring all of this, they could divert that 2nd bus onto another route that had developed a gap due to long wheel chair load.

Without adding more busses ($'s and all...), the existing busses could be utilized more efficiently.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

There you go again LB, grouping a bunch of us together just knowng we'll be 'positive' about the busses...

WHOA!!! What did I do?!?!? There I go again?!?!?! Bunching together?!?! 'Positive'!?!? What in the heck are you talking about this time!! One of the only non-controversial posts I pen in quite a while and this comes!!?? What gives!!??

As for planning, well we don't do much of it.

Well!! Good for you!! I suppose I wouldn’t either if I visited as much as you. Unfortunately I can’t. Sooooo, I have to do a little planning!

So, come on, Peter. Tell me. How would you answer my Typhoon Lagoon to Italy question? Please tell me, because even after thirty years of experience and being a certifiable Disney NUT, I haven’t got a clue!! Do you?