DDP Rumor and affect on DVC Member Perceived Value

[tjkraz]

The only point I was trying to make is that Chefs seems happy with $30 and $18 for a entree, appetizer and desert. I don't think they are too unhappy with the $25-28 they get from Disney for a meal. If they were, they wouldn't have been part of the plan.

But do you KNOW whether they are happy or not? (Hey, two can play at this game. )

I think it's a sort of "darned if you do, darned if you don't" situation for the independently-owned restaurants. If they don't sign on to the DDP, they lose the DDP participants' business for a year. While they probably don't lose money on the DDP, again the profit margin is much lower when you must provide $50 worth of food, beverage and service for revenue of $25-28 (as compared to providing $50 worth of food, beverage and service and receiving $50.)

Many of the DTD restaurants opted-out of the DDP, the difference being that DTD is not a gated community. It doesn't rely on the ticket-buying public as its only customers.

The in-park restaurants may not be crazy about the terms Disney is offering, but if that traffic is the difference between turning a profit and not turning a profit, the decision is reluctantly made.

 

[CarolA]

Wonder if the DDP had anything to do with the change in management of the Italy Resturant. Disney did not take it over, so it's not like they wanted to run it themselves? We will probably never know.

 

[DBorges]

Maybe you should ASK what else I have done before you put your fingers on the keyboards.

I have been involved with purchasing "food" and supplies for a VERY LARGE company. Think LOTS AND LOTS of food. (take a LOT of hospitals and imagine the amount of FOOD they go thru...... LOTS AND LOTS!!!!) We bought in BULK (HUGE BULK!) I do have some idea of what margins you can expect to get. I have audited LOTS of those bills. (You also didn't ask what type of accounting job at Disney did you? hmm...you never know what else I might have learned!)

I am sorry, but... your prices aren't based in reality. The only way your prices work is if they get the goverment suplus program and Disney doesn't qualify. (I purchased from that during my days as a camp administrator on college. Pennies... and some of the best cheese I have EVER HAD! I miss that stuff LOL!)

Contrary to your thoughts vendors don't have to "Give food" to Disney. Since most vendors get no real benefit from being a Disney vendor they have no motivation besides the value of the contract. If the contract gets too cheap , it would not be worth their time to keep it. (Vendors like Coke may use a different model as they do get the "association". Your local meat vendor... nah... I have seen the "vendor' trucks Disney uses. Those guys aren't losing money on these contracts....


DDP as used by the DVC members is NOT profitiable. As used by the average guest when combined with increased room revenue, DME etc. (all of which serve to keep you on site ) it may be. If you review the Annual Report you will notice that Disney CAREFULLY tracks averege spending per guest. (That's not a "guess" on Disney accounting, it's IN the report!) And in spite of the dining plan that has actually crept UP over the past few years. So it may be that Disney finds that while food is a "loss leader" the real truth is that between "cheap meals" and free transport the avg guest buys a LOT more "presents" or spends more on a hotel room.

I will put my finger on the keyboard when I like thanks.

Ordering food for a large institution or physical plant is the same no matter who you buy for as long as it is not a prison of a foos pantry . As for the bulk of food stuffs and Ice cream and soda that disney uses I am sure they pay less then markert value and buy such a lagre amount that the distributor DO make money.

Just a case in point the booze at diseny is makered up 50-75 % .

A peice of beef that disney buys would cost them alot less then anyone else due to volume that is simple.

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder of knowing all.

Use common sence and realy think about it " I have seen the "vendor' trucks Disney uses. " that proves nothing again you do not have the knowlegde of what that contract is your only guessing (RUMOR)

Like I have said and will say again RUMOR IS RUMOR

 

[DBorges]

Wonder if the DDP had anything to do with the change in management of the Italy Resturant. Disney did not take it over, so it's not like they wanted to run it themselves? We will probably never know.

Patina Restaurant Group Assumes Italy Pavilion Restaurant

Several weeks ago, it was announced that L'Originale Alfredo di Roma Ristorante in the Italy pavilion in Epcot's World Showcase would be closing August 31, 2007. The Patina Restaurant Group has been named as the operating participant for the restaurant beginning September 1. The Patina Group was one of the original operating participants at the Disneyland Resort's Downtown Disney district.

"We are proud of our long-term relationship with the Walt Disney Comapny and are gratified to see it grow, " said Nick Valenti, president and CEO, Patina Restaurant Group. "Disney is a name synonymous with quality and creativity -- two characteristics that we strive to emulate," added Joachim Splichal, chef and founder of the Patina Group. "We look forward to developing a truly outstanding restaurant for the visitors to Epcot."

"The World Showcase at Epcot was designed to continually evolve and offer new guest experiences that showcase cultures, traditions and immersive entertainment," said Maribeth Bisienere, vice president, Alliance Development and Operating Participants, Walt Disney World Resort. "With the Patina Restaurants Group coming on board, our guests will have the best of both worlds -- gourmet cuisine and first-class services. We're very excited to have an industry leader like the Patina Restaurant Group operating the Italy pavilion restaurant."

The Patina Restaurant Group is the nation's leading multi-concept operation in the premium segments of the restaurant and food service industry. In New York City its portfolio includes the world-famous Ice Rink and The Sea Grill at Rockefeller Center; the Brasserie; and the Grand Tier at the Metropolitan Opera House. On the West Coast, the portfolio includes the renowned Patina Restaurant in Walt Disney Concert Hall; Nick and Stef's Steakhouse; Catal and three other restaurants in the Anaheim Disneyland Resorts Downtown Disney District; Leatherby's Cafe Rouge at the Orange County Performing Arts Center; Julia's Kitchen at COPIA in Napa; Pinot Brasserie in Las Vegas; and catering and food service in museums and cultural centers throughout Southern California.

I think it was just time for a change.. But lets start a RUMOR

The old group went bankrupt due to the ddp used by dvc members..

 

[BCV23]

Wonder if the DDP had anything to do with the change in management of the Italy Resturant. Disney did not take it over, so it's not like they wanted to run it themselves? We will probably never know.

At the time the news was released, someone posted a link to an article in which the company that runs Alfredo's expressed surprise that the contract would not be renewed.

 

[Chuck S]

As this thread has clearly veered away from the DDP and its relative effect on DVC, it no longer meets the criteria for the DVC boards. The original topic was, basically, "If the rumors of the changes are true, will the DDP still be of value to DVCers."

It will need to return to a DVC related discussion, or I will have to close it under the DVC Board posting guidelines.

 

[Muushka]

"If the rumors of the changes are true, will the DDP still be of value to DVCers."


Not for this DVC member!

 

[Anthony1971]

Wonder if the DDP had anything to do with the change in management of the Italy Resturant. Disney did not take it over, so it's not like they wanted to run it themselves? We will probably never know.

Part of this may also have to do with Disney demanding all or most of the EPCOT Restuarnats remodel.

Reading this thread again... I remember when Disney offered a Plan for 50 and it was basically a credit for 55 (my numbers may be off a little but it was 50 or 55 a day). At this time they awere also offering room discounts or package discounts. To get the DDP now you need to stay at rack rate so there is a balance here but now it would seem that the food is bearing the burden. As far as DVC getting this plan they are loosing money.... But there is a payoff and that is getting people use to eating in the restuarants and DVC was not designed as such....
Dinsey itself is based on memories and for most cooking itself on vacation is something that most do not want to remember the outcome may be memorable...... But now you have the same outcome eating out...
A Better question is how many would change thier Dinning habits if DVC did away with DDP or it was unaffordable. I am sure there are a large number of DVC and cash guests that have discovered a place they would have not dinned at in the past and now looks forward to dinning at while at Disney. I think Disney is going to profit in the near future with this one for cash and DVC guests alike.

 

[Anthony1971]

"If the rumors of the changes are true, will the DDP still be of value to DVCers."


Not for this DVC member!

But will you eat in a resturanat you would have not normally while at Disney? Also think if anyone in your family will want to and you will accommadate

 

[DBorges]

Part of this may also have to do with Disney demanding all or most of the EPCOT Restuarnats remodel.

Reading this thread again... I remember when Disney offered a Plan for 50 and it was basically a credit for 55 (my numbers may be off a little but it was 50 or 55 a day). At this time they awere also offering room discounts or package discounts. To get the DDP now you need to stay at rack rate so there is a balance here but now it would seem that the food is bearing the burden. As far as DVC getting this plan they are loosing money.... But there is a payoff and that is getting people use to eating in the restuarants and DVC was not designed as such....
Dinsey itself is based on memories and for most cooking itself on vacation is something that most do not want to remember the outcome may be memorable...... But now you have the same outcome eating out...
A Better question is how many would change thier Dinning habits if DVC did away with DDP or it was unaffordable. I am sure there are a large number of DVC and cash guests that have discovered a place they would have not dinned at in the past and now looks forward to dinning at while at Disney. I think Disney is going to profit in the near future with this one for cash and DVC guests alike.

Once again the plan being changed is a RUMOR but if it did change I think it would not change my using it.

I have found my Disney Food Nitch and no where I like and Dislike I would not change my dining habits at all if I had to pay for it and not use the ddp.

I feel that vacation is too have a good time and relax and if that means spending money I am not afraid to do it.

This whole topic was to be About a rumor but it seems that some people here can not see that is just that a rumor .

Like all mass Confusion the point of the post gets twisted to suit the needs of the people posting. So Back to the subject at hand it is a Rumor.

We all will find out soon enough the release date is RUMORED to be Aug 14th 2008.

Someone else was nice enough to point out the same thing happened last year and was fueled by the same people.

I am afraid that some take things to heart way too much here but Knowledge is power is some peoples mind even if the knowledge is RUMOR.


I have been following this post for days done more reseach then most and it is still a Rumor.

So in closing folks lets sit back and wait to see what happens. If i get mud in my face then I will be man enough to admit it . But common sence says it will remain the same with a slight price increase

 

[Anthony1971]

Once again the plan being changed is a RUMOR but if it did change I think it would not change my using it.

I have found my Disney Food Nitch and no where I like and Dislike I would not change my dining habits at all if I had to pay for it and not use the ddp.

I feel that vacation is too have a good time and relax and if that means spending money I am not afraid to do it.

This whole topic was to be About a rumor but it seems that some people here can not see that is just that a rumor .

Like all mass Confusion the point of the post gets twisted to suit the needs of the people posting. So Back to the subject at hand it is a Rumor.

We all will find out soon enough the release date is RUMORED to be Aug 14th 2008.

Someone else was nice enough to point out the same thing happened last year and was fueled by the same people.

I am afraid that some take things to heart way too much here but Knowledge is power is some peoples mind even if the knowledge is RUMOR.


I have been following this post for days done more reseach then most and it is still a Rumor.

So in closing folks lets sit back and wait to see what happens. If i get mud in my face then I will be man enough to admit it . But common sence says it will remain the same with a slight price increase

We all KNOW that it is a rumor but to debate weather or not something is or is not has no point however further in the original post it asks if one would still use the DDP and a further implication would be eating out in general and that is what we are discussing.
There are many DVCers that do not eat out every night or most nights as proven by the small resturanst at the large DVC resorts and the now very affordable DDP shines a new light on vacation habits.

 

[fishermouse]

While I generally agree I am very concerned that the tip MUST be mandatory on DDP. I have followed the various DIS boards and spent too much time at Disney to have much faith in my fellow travelers. I can see this logic ALL to easily.... "DDP costs me $38. I figure they pay $25 of that for the TS meal 18% of of $25 is $4.50 so that's my tip"

Don't believe me. Read this board there is at least one poster who seems to be saying he/she doesn't tip as a high percentage at Disney because "meals are overpriced" So he/she "inflation" adjusts the tip? (Of course living in Orlando is also fairly costly from what I learned when I looked at a job down there, but that never comes up LOL!)


I once was in the Rose and Crown and heard someone say "you don't need to tip, you don't tip in Pubs in England" Well that may be true, but this pub is NOT in England....

It is not fair for the servers to be "ripped off" because of this change.

Everything you say is true but I still don't like being chaarged a fee to pay the tip. Every server no matter where they work gets good tips and bad tips, hopefully in the end it balances out. If you work where foreign customers frequent you will get lower tips, they don't tip as well as most Americans. Americans are the most genreous people in the world as proven by all studies taken, in tips and charity. Tip included billing is widely used in Europ so often they don't tip. As far as not tipping in pubs go back to a bar after you slighted the bar tender and see how good your drinks are. Here they are probably the highest tipped servers % wise.
So far I have not used DDP so I'm really not affected just adding my two cents because as many of us know most servers rely on tips for a living and IMO they are better served getting tips directly from the customer. I still believe most people will tip on the value of the meal if it's not mandatory. As is what exactly are they getting 18% of, it can't be the cost of the DDP because that includes tax, cs, snack and the tip. Just wondering what value they place on the TS. Plus since drinks are not included how many people are giving the extra to cover the cost of drinks? Your $25. assumtion may or may not be correct, by the way I would give atleast $5.00 on that $25. Maybe if they gave them 18% of the average bill per person it would be fair but most likely they are not making out very well. You can tell by how happy they are when you say your a cash customer. I also usually tip in cash regardless of how I pay the bill.

 

[JimMIA]

As this thread has clearly veered away from the DDP and its relative effect on DVC, it no longer meets the criteria for the DVC boards. The original topic was, basically, "If the rumors of the changes are true, will the DDP still be of value to DVCers."

It will need to return to a DVC related discussion, or I will have to close it under the DVC Board posting guidelines.

With regard to the original topic of the thread, I think the answer remains: "It depends."

If the changes occur, DVCers will once again do a rational cost/benefit comparison and make appropriate decisions for their families. As it always has, the value of DDP will vary from family to family depending on their family composition and normal dining habits.

My hunch is that for couples, families whose children are all >10, and even families like us (2 adults and a 5 y/o), DDP will no longer be a good deal. However, families with multiple kids under 10 may still find it great. Not as great as it was, but still worthwhile.

For my family, a DDP which does not include gratuity doesn't meet our needs, so we would not use it. If we don't use DDP, we have a range of options. Our best option (we always have a car) would be to eat virtually all of our meals offsite. There are many good restaurants in the Orlando area which offer better food at lower prices than the WDW restaurants.

The only time we would eat onsite would probably be one character meal each trip. (We have been eating CS meals on DDP, but our previous pattern was not eating lunch in the parks, so we would go back to that.)

The other change we would make would be to venture out to other Orlando attractions. I've been resisting trips to Universal and Sea World because of DDP, but without it, we would visit those. In fact, our next trip, we'd probably just hit MK and Epcot one day each and spend the rest of our time at other attractions.

We would also look at whatever deals were available, and if it was advantageous, we might stay offsite on Fri/Sat and then only spend 2-3 days at DVC and save our points for Vero or other options. Currently, we usually stay entirely at DVC Sun-Thurs, but switching to an offsite night or two would save my DW some vacation time on each trip.

So everybody's options will be different. For us, the changes in DDP will be a loss on one hand, but several opportunities on the other.

 

[pilferk]

Once again the plan being changed is a RUMOR but if it did change I think it would not change my using it.

I have found my Disney Food Nitch and no where I like and Dislike I would not change my dining habits at all if I had to pay for it and not use the ddp.

I feel that vacation is too have a good time and relax and if that means spending money I am not afraid to do it.

This whole topic was to be About a rumor but it seems that some people here can not see that is just that a rumor .

Like all mass Confusion the point of the post gets twisted to suit the needs of the people posting. So Back to the subject at hand it is a Rumor.

We all will find out soon enough the release date is RUMORED to be Aug 14th 2008.

Someone else was nice enough to point out the same thing happened last year and was fueled by the same people.

I am afraid that some take things to heart way too much here but Knowledge is power is some peoples mind even if the knowledge is RUMOR.


I have been following this post for days done more reseach then most and it is still a Rumor.

So in closing folks lets sit back and wait to see what happens. If i get mud in my face then I will be man enough to admit it . But common sence says it will remain the same with a slight price increase

Isn't the title of the thread:

"DDP Rumor and affect on DVC Member Perceived Value"?

I think it's aptly labeled as rumor in the title.

The question being: IF the rumors are true, would it have an effect on DVC members perceived value of the plan.

In other words: Please speculate.

If you don't want to engage in that speculation.....why post?

My humble opinion:

IF the changes listed on the Virgin web site are, in fact, made part of the US plan.....it will largely depend on the trip for us.

This next trip...a LOT of buffets on our ADR's. In that case, the DDP retains most of the same value, with the tip being an "extra". We'd keep it.

Next trip there will be more sit down TS style places on our ADR list. For that trip, I'd be much more likely to pay OOP for at least SOME stuff (maybe in conjunction with DDP, maybe with DDE instead). I'd have to work the numbers.

IF the rumors are true, I see a pretty drastic reduction in value, but I think there might still be some there. It wouldn't be a GREAT deal anymore.....an almost no brainer for many many folks. It would require a more situational approach when deciding if the plan was right for you, I think.

 

[DBorges]

Isn't the title of the thread:

"DDP Rumor and affect on DVC Member Perceived Value"?

I think it's aptly labeled as rumor in the title.

The question being: IF the rumors are true, would it have an effect on DVC members perceived value of the plan.

In other words: Please speculate.

If you don't want to engage in that speculation.....why post?

My humble opinion:

IF the changes listed on the Virgin web site are, in fact, made part of the US plan.....it will largely depend on the trip for us.

This next trip...a LOT of buffets on our ADR's. In that case, the DDP retains most of the same value, with the tip being an "extra". We'd keep it.

Next trip there will be more sit down TS style places on our ADR list. For that trip, I'd be much more likely to pay OOP for at least SOME stuff (maybe in conjunction with DDP, maybe with DDE instead). I'd have to work the numbers.

IF the rumors are true, I see a pretty drastic reduction in value, but I think there might still be some there. It wouldn't be a GREAT deal anymore.....an almost no brainer for many many folks. It would require a more situational approach when deciding if the plan was right for you, I think.

First off I did post because the posing was here to talk about but when ever my opinion was said it got slambed to I did reseach (which no one else did)

I also have come to the conclusion that it is not going to change look at history.

Second there are a select few here whom think that they have the inside scoop all the time and normal fall just a little short.

I have said all along that it was a rumor but if it did happen (which it will not ) I would still use it .

Like others here I always Have a car when I am on property So if I had to drive to somewhere I would.

This whole cost thing is so far off and that is what changed the tune of the post ..


Perceived Value or not it is still going to save money for most ..

Hell if I could eat a good meal a a disney location and only have to pay the tip count me in..

125.oo x 20% hmm 25.00 pluss my booze that is still cheap.

Now with this said all the accountants here will make some mathamatical responce showing how it cost more for disney to make the meal then I paid for it..

The mark up on the food and beverages at disney is bigger then we all think.

The buying power Of disney would make any chain look like a bug ..

So does it make sence to change this no

The other thing is most of the poeple use this have to get park admission just to eat(more money)

We do save with the dinning plan as do many but Disney is still getting a profit.

So in my humble opinion if it is not broken do not fix it>>

 

[Chuck S]

Interesting...

What "research" supports these "opinions" that you seem to put forth as facts?

I have said all along that it was a rumor but if it did happen (which ist will not ) I would still use it .

The mark up on the food and beverages at disney is bigger then we all think.

Unless you work for Disney, you have NO WAY of knowing this at all...it is just as much speculation for you as it is for anyone else

The other thiong is most of the poeple use this have to get park admission just to eat(more money)

Are you actually suggesting that people that stay at a Disney resort would NOT buy park tickets, unless the DDP were available? I'd really like to see your research in that.

Until then, everyone elses opinion is every bit as valid as your opinion.

 

[DBorges]

Chuck I am saying that if you we too eat with the ddp and wanted to eat in a park you need admission..


Then if you buy 10 lbs of meat froma hole sale person . it would cost 8.50 but if you were to buy 1000000lbs of beef it would cost from the same person 4.00 this happens all over the country .

They make there money and profit on volume ...

Yes we all have our onwn point of view yes . And this is my point

Reaseach Ok I have done three days of it now on this topic and also looked into the Whole virgin thing..

the only thing that can be proven is that virgin did make a contract to limit the ddp (but Disney ddp or central resvation have no knowlegde of this)

Disneys contract with a vendor ( for TRAVEL)is not typicaly what they do with eveyone.

If I have offend anyone hey I am sorry it must be my conflictive nature.

But some of the really far fetched things in this post ??

Any how I will wait for the plan to be released then we can start a post How the rumors were wrong AGAIN



.

 

[pilferk]

Perceived Value or not it is still going to save money for most ..

Hell if I could eat a good meal a a disney location and only have to pay the tip count me in..

125.oo x 20% hmm 25.00 pluss my booze that is still cheap.

Except, well, in the context of DVC, you're not likely just paying for the tip and booze. We're not eligible for free dining, so you're also paying whatever the cost of the DDP is. You might be paying it PRIOR to your meal, but you're still paying it.

So, taking into account what I'd pay at a TS OOP + app + tip vs what I'd pay for the DDP + apps + tip...now the total is getting closer and closer and the choices without the DDP seem to be getting larger and larger. We're not the "everybody gets an app and desert" kinda family...we get one or two for the table, and share (even were we on the DDP).

Here, let me demonstrate:

DDP without tip and app (but 2 apps for the table)...assuming same cost this year as last year, at Kona Cafe (a modestly priced TS):

Sticky wings: 7.99+ tx = 8.95
Pot Stickers: 6.99+ tx = 7.83
DDP x 2 adults = 77.98
DDP x 2 kids = 21.98
Entre/dessert costs would be about 69.98 so tip would be around $17

So, my cash outlay for that days' DDP (including a CS and snack) + TS app + TS tip would be about $134.

With the current plan, my TOTAL cash outlay for the same thing would be 99.96.

If I were to pay OOP, with DDE:

Same as above, less 20% discount on total (but not tax and tip) = 96.17.

CS meals for the day (using Cosmic Rays for prices): 32.21 with tax

Snacks for the day: $12

Total for the day is about $141.

So yes...I'm now saving about $7...,$15 if you want to amortize the cost of the DDE over our 7 day trip. Add a couple adult beverages, and the accompanying 20% discount on the DDE, each night (one for me, one for my wife) and that savings quickly dwindles. If the DDP price increases...again, the savings dwindels.

That's the way we would likely use the plan. Is there value in that? Sure there is, but compared to the value in it NOW, it's quite a bit less. It means, IF the rumors are true, we'd have to analyze which way to go trip by trip.

 

[Chuck S]

Chuck I am saying that if you we too eat with the ddp and wanted to eat in a park you need admission..

Not true, you can eat at the resorts without park admission. And DVC does NOT require the purchase of a park ticket to be eligible for the DDP. On the other hand, if you want to dine at Chefs or LeCellier, park admission is required whether you have the DDP or not. I doubt most folks buy park admission for the sole purpose of dining in a park.

Then if you buy 10 lbs of meat froma hole sale person . it would cost 8.50 but if you were to buy 1000000lbs of beef it would cost from the same person 4.00 this happens all over the country .

Sure, and for almost every type of product...but for any restaurant the actual cost of food is probably the lowest overall expense. Employee cost, taxes, rent/location and utilities are pretty much a set cost, and additional volume also increases those costs.

They make there money and profit on volume ...

Only if the additional volume is sufficient to offset the additional expenses and loss of some profit on the individual meals.

Reaseach Ok I have done three days of it now on this topic and also looked into the Whole virgin thing..

Disneys contract with a vendor is not typicaly what they do with eveyone.

.

And again, no one in this thread has said it is ANYTHING but rumor, no one has said it is a done deal.

 

[DBorges]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DBorges
Chuck I am saying that if you we too eat with the ddp and wanted to eat in a park you need admission..

Not true, you can eat at the resorts without park admission. And DVC does NOT require the purchase of a park ticket to be eligible for the DDP. On the other hand, if you want to dine at Chefs or LeCellier, park admission is required whether you have the DDP or not. I doubt most folks buy park admission for the sole purpose of dining in a park.

RE READ THAT

If you have the DDP and want to eat in a PARK you need admission (this is true)

I did not say if you wanted to eat at a resort or downtown disny you needed park admission


You also said "They make there money and profit on volume ...

Only if the additional volume is sufficient to offset the additional expenses and loss of some profit on the individual meals."


If the said volume for a hour is say 20 people .. But that same volume doubles because you have more people there as a result of the ddp

How does it cost more to have the same staff work the same hours for the same wages and do twice the work..

It means more profit no matter how you look at it more volume in the same time = more profit for less cost