DDE Automatic 18% tip!
- Thread starter CanadianGuy
- Start date
- Status
DisneyWisher
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- May 18, 2004
- Messages
- 3,828
another great reason to start eating off-site. Lately its been food that leaves little to be desired and now an automatic tip. When we were there last month I didn't not appreciate the automatic 18% tip added to my $9.25 drink that took 20 mins to get. My drink ended up costing $11.51 when you add tax and the 18% tip. Thats not to say I don't tip. When I signed for our meal I included an extra $10.00 cash, but I was given the drink check after he took the meal check. 4 yrs ago I was in love with eating at Disney. Loved Ohana, Concourse, HDDR (still love that), WC and CS at Mexico. I would sit at home and crave it. But lately I could take it or leave it. Trip before last we went down the tourist pack 92 highway and I loved it. Loved Logans, Bennigan's and others. Disney the more you nickel and dime me, the more you chase me away.
apostolic4life
Chef Grumpy
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2005
- Messages
- 1,092
Here is a link to a NY Times article about a court action taken on mandatory tipping at a restaurant:
NY Times
I think this should tell us all what the legal definition of tipping is.
mickaholic4077
I kicked cancer's butt!!
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2003
- Messages
- 2,861
I'll be very interested to see how long this policy will be in effect before Disney repeals it.
Here is a link to a NY Times article about a court action taken on mandatory tipping at a restaurant:
NY TimesI think this should tell us all what the legal definition of tipping is.
I love it.........
"The Sopranos summoned the police"
jberry5
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2007
- Messages
- 528
I'm a CPA with a sister who is a waitress. I know she has been told the amount of tips she must claim. I've told her they are wrong, that she is to claim every penny that she is tipped, and not doing so is a disservice to herself in the long run. By skimming on the tips, yes you pay less in taxes, which is illegal per the tax code, and it is things like this when added up that causes tax rates to be what they are, instead of lower. The other issue is, by underreporting, the server may not be aware of it, but they are reducing their own, and their employer's shares of Social Security & Medicare taxes. Payroll taxes that add up down the road to determine your benefits upon retirement. This is a reason restaurants in particular will sometimes "suggest" that their servers not fully report their tips. And this isn't something unique to where she works, as I've heard others say the same, as well as, advised clients about this particular issue.
I have also read many tax court cases involving underreporting of tips. I'm sure if a server is individually audited they may be required to pick up additional income, but it is somewhat unlikely. The reason is, to figure that out, the IRS would need to audit the server's place of employment for the establishment's sales. In the cases I've seen, it has been the restaurants that have been required to ante up the additional payroll taxes on tips the IRS has calculated based on industry averages. None of the cases I have read, ever mentioned if the employees were then required to pick up additional income on their personal returns.
I have also read many tax court cases involving underreporting of tips. I'm sure if a server is individually audited they may be required to pick up additional income, but it is somewhat unlikely. The reason is, to figure that out, the IRS would need to audit the server's place of employment for the establishment's sales. In the cases I've seen, it has been the restaurants that have been required to ante up the additional payroll taxes on tips the IRS has calculated based on industry averages. None of the cases I have read, ever mentioned if the employees were then required to pick up additional income on their personal returns.
I have had many TS meals at WDW through the years, and I have had a few bad servers. I have had a particular one, twice, at AK at Donalds' breakfast buffet. I will not pay 18% for a buffet if my coffee is not refilled often. We haven't been back the last couple of trips just because of that bad service combined with the buffet price, it's just not worth it.Sometimes, finding the manager is just as much of a hassle, and at the Princess breakfast in Norway, the manager didn't care at all about our ignored experience, and just gave us the lame "oh, she was busy" (uh, yeah, isn't it always busy??
I plan to pay in cash for my TS meals on our next trip. I will appeal my case to a manager if I feel I should not pay the 18% gratuity. If the manager doesn't take it off, I will omit it myself. What could they do?
In most cases we leave over 20%. In the case of a "forced" gratuity, I think they should only add 15% and leave it to the customer to leave more if we want.
It really irks me too, about paying 18% gratuity for a buffet.
I plan to pay in cash for my TS meals on our next trip. I will appeal my case to a manager if I feel I should not pay the 18% gratuity. If the manager doesn't take it off, I will omit it myself. What could they do?
In most cases we leave over 20%. In the case of a "forced" gratuity, I think they should only add 15% and leave it to the customer to leave more if we want.
It really irks me too, about paying 18% gratuity for a buffet.
Claire&TheBoys
The Queen of the Castle!
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
- Messages
- 6,335
This is very interesting. How do you think they'll be able to enforce guests leaving the full 18%? The bill will have to be itemized, and show, "Sub-total: $114.52, Gratuity: $20.61, Total: $135.13." What if I'm paying in cash (yeah, like anyone carries cash anymore!) and leave $125? If you're on the DDP and pay your tip in cash, if you don't leave their stipulated amount, will they try to bill it to your room? What if you don't activate the charging feature on your key-card?
I just see lots of holes in this. I think they are *hoping* everyone will see that Grand Total at the bottom and just pay it without question but I don't see how it's enforceable.
I just see lots of holes in this. I think they are *hoping* everyone will see that Grand Total at the bottom and just pay it without question but I don't see how it's enforceable.
jberry5
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2007
- Messages
- 528
I can understand why Disney might put some sort of tip on for DDP diners, as this used to be included in the DDP price, and those using it again, may not know the tip is no longer included, unless done this way. But to make it a blanket policy doesn't seem right.
Here's another thing I've thought about when it comes to tipping. I'm a creature of habit, so I do pretty much lay down 20% on average. But sometimes I wonder, why is it 20%, instead of a $ amount? I mean, I can go to Denny's and get a Grand Slam Breakfast that comes out on three plates for something like $6.99, add the drink, and 20% is going to come out to about $1.75-$2.00. Now I go to Ruth's Chris Steakhouse (never been there actually) and get a meal that is $75, and that server for doing the same amount of work as the Denny's server is going to get about $15? Like I said, just something I think about at times, but I still leave the %.
Here's another thing I've thought about when it comes to tipping. I'm a creature of habit, so I do pretty much lay down 20% on average. But sometimes I wonder, why is it 20%, instead of a $ amount? I mean, I can go to Denny's and get a Grand Slam Breakfast that comes out on three plates for something like $6.99, add the drink, and 20% is going to come out to about $1.75-$2.00. Now I go to Ruth's Chris Steakhouse (never been there actually) and get a meal that is $75, and that server for doing the same amount of work as the Denny's server is going to get about $15? Like I said, just something I think about at times, but I still leave the %.
Need An E Ticket
Mouseketeer
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2007
- Messages
- 132
As someone who has been in the restaurant industry since I was 15 and bussed tables and then got out when I ran the restaurant in a hotel/restaurant chain, I have seen it all.
When I waited tables I made less than $ 1.25/hr, worked doubles which meant I was in at 10:00 am to prep for lunch, left at 2:00 pm and came back at 4:00 pm to prep for dinner. Usually I would not get out until 1:00 am because of clean up. Then repeat it all over again. Of the 13 hours I worked, I was lucky to have rotating tables for 6 hours. Now, I chose this profession and I was very good, I made a lot of money, but I worked my butt off and sacrificed a lot to do it. Imagine being 17-25 years old and your life rotated around a restaurant working 15 hour days (really what could I do between 2 and 4 every day). Working at food service is not for everyone. But it paid my way through college.
Early on I could easily cheat Uncle Sam out of his cut, but it doesn't happen very often now. The books are scrutinized and you will be held accountable for at least 12% in most circumstances. 12% doesn't sound fair if you get 20%, but most waitstaff must tip out the bartenders and bus staff and lately the kitchen. I have never had a problem with this, these people work their butts off too, although their hourly wage is significantly higher.
That being said, I personally do not agree with a set tip added. You should work for what you get. But there are so many people out there who just don't tip correctly, don't know, or really can't afford it. And that sucks for the waitstaff who really are deserving of good tips. You would think Disney would pay them better, but we all know better. They want you to pay for what they don't have to.
So I believe that is their way of trying to keep the ones that are good. From what I have been hearing, Disney is having a tough time getting staff. I would have a difficult time working 13 hours a day, relying on my tips and not getting them, and that would force me to leave.
As for the buffet situation, here is what I know: I would work at least twice as many tables as I would a regular sit-down meal. I would be asked to turn these tables faster than normal. I would be asked to keep the table clear of all dirty dishes and to replenish drinks as quickly as possible. In most cases, I was supposed to make sure the buffet remains full at all times and is clean and appetizing in appearance. A buffet may require extensive set-up and always requires a large clean-up at the end of a shift. Now all this being said, if you can keep your head on straight and remember all the drinks and odd requests, you can move a heck of a lot of people through your station, but you will need to move at least triple the amount of people through to make what you can for a regular sit down service.
For Disney, they get to charge more per person and they can move a lot more through the restaurant per hour. The customers are usually happy because they can pick and choose multiple things and they do not have to wait for the food to arrive. But if Disney is going to require 18% for a buffet, I may just quit my job and move my family to Orlando.
As I get off this soap box, I want to address two other things:
For the poster who said that giving 20-25% because we worked in the industry before and "just make[sic] the problem worse" and that you start at 10% and then "The server then works their way up, or down" I have so many shoes I would like you to wear. I envy you that you can go to Disney twice a year and the Disney resorts you stay in, but I hope you may now understand what these servers can go through.
And the second thing is to the Executive Chef: do you hold your people responsible in front of the diner? If you do, I commend you, most won't. They will discipline at a later time, because it usually is not feasible to send your sous chef out in the middle of dinner, but that still leaves the server to deal with the patron face-to-face.
I apologize for my rant. I could go on, but I believe I know better. Thanks if you actually read this whole thing.
When I waited tables I made less than $ 1.25/hr, worked doubles which meant I was in at 10:00 am to prep for lunch, left at 2:00 pm and came back at 4:00 pm to prep for dinner. Usually I would not get out until 1:00 am because of clean up. Then repeat it all over again. Of the 13 hours I worked, I was lucky to have rotating tables for 6 hours. Now, I chose this profession and I was very good, I made a lot of money, but I worked my butt off and sacrificed a lot to do it. Imagine being 17-25 years old and your life rotated around a restaurant working 15 hour days (really what could I do between 2 and 4 every day). Working at food service is not for everyone. But it paid my way through college.
Early on I could easily cheat Uncle Sam out of his cut, but it doesn't happen very often now. The books are scrutinized and you will be held accountable for at least 12% in most circumstances. 12% doesn't sound fair if you get 20%, but most waitstaff must tip out the bartenders and bus staff and lately the kitchen. I have never had a problem with this, these people work their butts off too, although their hourly wage is significantly higher.
That being said, I personally do not agree with a set tip added. You should work for what you get. But there are so many people out there who just don't tip correctly, don't know, or really can't afford it. And that sucks for the waitstaff who really are deserving of good tips. You would think Disney would pay them better, but we all know better. They want you to pay for what they don't have to.
So I believe that is their way of trying to keep the ones that are good. From what I have been hearing, Disney is having a tough time getting staff. I would have a difficult time working 13 hours a day, relying on my tips and not getting them, and that would force me to leave.
As for the buffet situation, here is what I know: I would work at least twice as many tables as I would a regular sit-down meal. I would be asked to turn these tables faster than normal. I would be asked to keep the table clear of all dirty dishes and to replenish drinks as quickly as possible. In most cases, I was supposed to make sure the buffet remains full at all times and is clean and appetizing in appearance. A buffet may require extensive set-up and always requires a large clean-up at the end of a shift. Now all this being said, if you can keep your head on straight and remember all the drinks and odd requests, you can move a heck of a lot of people through your station, but you will need to move at least triple the amount of people through to make what you can for a regular sit down service.
For Disney, they get to charge more per person and they can move a lot more through the restaurant per hour. The customers are usually happy because they can pick and choose multiple things and they do not have to wait for the food to arrive. But if Disney is going to require 18% for a buffet, I may just quit my job and move my family to Orlando.
As I get off this soap box, I want to address two other things:
For the poster who said that giving 20-25% because we worked in the industry before and "just make[sic] the problem worse" and that you start at 10% and then "The server then works their way up, or down" I have so many shoes I would like you to wear. I envy you that you can go to Disney twice a year and the Disney resorts you stay in, but I hope you may now understand what these servers can go through.
And the second thing is to the Executive Chef: do you hold your people responsible in front of the diner? If you do, I commend you, most won't. They will discipline at a later time, because it usually is not feasible to send your sous chef out in the middle of dinner, but that still leaves the server to deal with the patron face-to-face.
I apologize for my rant. I could go on, but I believe I know better. Thanks if you actually read this whole thing.
DOOM1001
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- May 23, 2003
- Messages
- 8,271
I used to be a server in South Florida which has many tourists from South America and Europe where tipping is not customary.There the servers work on salary or per hour.Without tips my paycheck when I was a server was about $40-$50 for TWO WEEKS,and many servers didn't even get a paycheck, their check would come for $0 since they would work a few more hours a week than me but would claim a lot more in tips since they worked night shifts where they made more.Orlando has many more European and South American tourists so I feel Disney is doing this for a reason,they could have servers getting stiffed on many checks and quitting.I think if you get a server who really isn't doing anything for the table,call a manager.It may not seem fair that the 18% is being added on but it also might not be fair to hard working servers who might work a 10 hour shift and walk out with $50.Remember also that servers must tip out bartenders,runners, bussers,where I worked I might have made $120 in tips but walked out with $80 after tipping everybody out.
huge mickey fan
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2006
- Messages
- 766
Well said!!! Here is my thought. I carry a credit card in the parks. I have to sign for the amount charged. Normally there is a line for a tip, then add for a grand total, then sign. If this automatic tip is listed separately (which it better be) and the service didn't warrant it then instead of adding I will be subtracting, then signing. If they charge my card more, then I dispute the charge and the restauarant doesn't get paid by my credit card company.
Now will this determine if I eat table service at Disney, absolutely. Will I choose to eat in my room more, absolutely. However I also see the silver lining about getting reservations but I am not happy that the cs restaurants will become a longer wait than the rides!!
I agree with the previous poster saying if the servers hate the pressure of their job then find a new one.
Sorry but I see this automatic tip thing a bad deal for the restaurants.
Flame me if you must be it won't change my point of view.
CanadianGuy
<font color=green><br><br><font color=blue>Me and
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2006
- Messages
- 15,505
THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION IS NOT FROM DIS ADMIN NOR IS IT FROM THE PARENT SITE ... WDWINFO.COM. THIS INFO COMES FROM MY OWN PERSONAL CONTACTS IN WDW FOOD & BEVERAGE. MIGHT BE WRONG, MIGHT BE RIGHT. PROBABLY WON'T KNOW FOR SURE TILL MONDAY.
The information I'm getting from my Food & Beverage contacts has stressed this is FOR DDE CUSTOMERS AND PARTIES OF 6 OR MORE.
According to my sources -- which may or may not be 100% correct, but I'm betting they are, cuz they usually know this stuff -- this is for DDE customers only parties of six of more...
And does not affect DDP or credit/cash customers with no discount.
More news as events warrant. Film at 11.
Knox
The information I'm getting from my Food & Beverage contacts has stressed this is FOR DDE CUSTOMERS AND PARTIES OF 6 OR MORE.
According to my sources -- which may or may not be 100% correct, but I'm betting they are, cuz they usually know this stuff -- this is for DDE customers only parties of six of more...
And does not affect DDP or credit/cash customers with no discount.
More news as events warrant. Film at 11.
Knox
praline3001
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2007
- Messages
- 3,863
I think everyone going the frist week in Feb should boycott ALL the TS 
This will teach em!
I REALLY REALLY think that anyone that has a dinner ADR for Le Celliers on Feb 3 should MOST definatly cancel just on principle!
(ok this was my cheap whiney way of trying to get the ressie I want...)
This will teach em!
I REALLY REALLY think that anyone that has a dinner ADR for Le Celliers on Feb 3 should MOST definatly cancel just on principle!
(ok this was my cheap whiney way of trying to get the ressie I want...)
THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION IS NOT FROM DIS ADMIN NOR IS IT FROM THE PARENT SITE ... WDWINFO.COM. THIS INFO COMES FROM MY OWN PERSONAL CONTACTS IN WDW FOOD & BEVERAGE. MIGHT BE WRONG, MIGHT BE RIGHT. PROBABLY WON'T KNOW FOR SURE TILL MONDAY.
The information I'm getting from my Food & Beverage contacts has stressed this is FOR DDE CUSTOMERS ONLY.
According to my sources -- which may or may not be 100% correct, but I'm betting they are, cuz they usually know this stuff -- this is for DDE customers only... and does not affect DDP or credit/cash customers with no discount.
More news as events warrant. Film at 11.
Knox
Gee, that news sure makes this DDE "Customer" (who btw was charged for the privilege) feel all better. I think I'll be using my DDE in creative ways until it runs out.
And someone tell me this...why doesn't WDW just call this change, this "improvement"
what it really is...a SERVICE CHARGE. A gratuity is supposed to be voluntary, this apparently is not. This change is no different than a hotel saying a room costs $X and then adding a service charge for the parking and another service charge for the fridge and then yet another service charge for the newspaper and a service charge for the health club. It's just a way to raise the prices without actually saying so.agnes!
PS - Actually, in this regard I feel very much like a Customer and certainly very little like a 'Guest'.
CanadianGuy
<font color=green><br><br><font color=blue>Me and
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2006
- Messages
- 15,505
I've inserted this post here for new folks coming to the thread. Please note, the originator of this thread was "jnadelman" as noted below.
----
THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION IS NOT FROM DIS ADMIN NOR IS IT FROM THE PARENT SITE ... WDWINFO.COM. THIS INFO COMES FROM MY OWN PERSONAL CONTACTS IN WDW FOOD & BEVERAGE. MIGHT BE WRONG, MIGHT BE RIGHT. PROBABLY WON'T KNOW FOR SURE TILL MONDAY.
The information I'm getting from my Food & Beverage contacts has stressed this is FOR DDE CUSTOMERS AND PARTIES OF 6 OR MORE.
According to my sources -- which may or may not be 100% correct, but I'm betting they are, cuz they usually know this stuff --
This is for DDE customers and parties of six of more... ONLY
And does not affect DDP or credit/cash customers with no discount.
More news as events warrant. Film at 11.
Knox
----
THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION IS NOT FROM DIS ADMIN NOR IS IT FROM THE PARENT SITE ... WDWINFO.COM. THIS INFO COMES FROM MY OWN PERSONAL CONTACTS IN WDW FOOD & BEVERAGE. MIGHT BE WRONG, MIGHT BE RIGHT. PROBABLY WON'T KNOW FOR SURE TILL MONDAY.
The information I'm getting from my Food & Beverage contacts has stressed this is FOR DDE CUSTOMERS AND PARTIES OF 6 OR MORE.
According to my sources -- which may or may not be 100% correct, but I'm betting they are, cuz they usually know this stuff --
This is for DDE customers and parties of six of more... ONLY
And does not affect DDP or credit/cash customers with no discount.
More news as events warrant. Film at 11.
Knox
- Status
-
"it's a small world" Hits With Disney Character Integration
-
Disney Merch Hit or Miss? New Holiday Plush
-
New Limited-Time Dim Sum at Disney's Nine Dragons Restaurant
-
Disney Donates $1 Million for Hurricane Melissa Relief Efforts in Jamaica
-
Let's Make Disney's Jack Skellington Halloween Cookies!
-
Spookiest of Details Found at Walt Disney World & Disneyland
-
Happy Halloween! Love, The Tower of Terror
New Threads
- Sticky
- Sticky
Receive up to $1,000 in Onboard Credit and a Gift Basket!
That’s right — when you book your Disney Cruise with Dreams Unlimited Travel, you’ll receive incredible shipboard credits to spend during your vacation!
CLICK HERE
That’s right — when you book your Disney Cruise with Dreams Unlimited Travel, you’ll receive incredible shipboard credits to spend during your vacation!
CLICK HERE
