DD6 says music teacher pulled her ponytail - WWYD?

[Tiger926]

Thanks to all for your support, here is the update:

- Went to school to speak to music teacher, but principal had just arrived for their meeting

- Went to talk to DD's classroom teacher, who felt badly for releasing her this morning, but she did not know otherwise (I had told music teacher no lessons this week)

- Principal was in meeting for a good 20 mins, so after meeting we met in the staff room/conference room as our kids wanted to play together

- Principal said teacher again said she didn't pull hair, but afterwards said maybe it was an accident? She also admitted that the she didn't walk DD to park for recess, and principal said that better never happen again. Classroom teacher told me that music teacher interrupted her lunch to ask what to do with my DD, and she reminded her that she was to hand her off to her assistant teacher, as she had been doing for years, but she chose not to do that. Classroom teacher felt badly, but I said it was not her issue at all and she should be allowed to enjoy her lunch in peace. Principal also spoke to DD's assistant teacher who was in charge at time, and she knows that she must immediately report that if it happens again. Principal says she knows something happened (she believes my DD more than the teacher at this point), but without cameras, there is not much else to do besides tell her that she was very unhappy to hear what happened and will be watched.

- Music teacher then walked right into the staffroom (door was closed as we were having a private conversation), to discuss things with us both, which surprised us!

- She asked if I wanted to talk to her while the principal was there - I was hesitant as she shouldn't have done that, but the principal gave me a look that it was ok, so I did. We addresssed each other (principal was right there pretending to be busy with our kids) and she said she didn't pull her hair, she would never do that, maybe it was an accident, but she wouldn't remember? I said I've done it with my students, and of course you remember as it hurts, but didn't get anything out of her.

- Also addressed why she took her for music class as she has never done this before at this hour, nor on a Monday, and she said she wanted her to have a positive time in music class. DD did not want to go, but she felt like she had to. Music teacher said they had great fun, but not according to my DD. Principal then left in order for us to have a private talk, but stayed outside door, and she just kept talking in circles about how she is touchy feely, and she maybe shouldn't do that anymore, she loves my DD and would never hurt her, etc. she said thanks to her for bringing it up, and said we could have our money back for the entire year. At this point, I told her no lessons for this week or next, and we'll discuss it more as I had to speak to DH.

- DD is definitely saying she does not want to return, but felt obligated to do so yesterday morning (she couldn't find the principal to ask for help, as she would not have been released for music).

- DD told her classroom teacher what happened as well (same, consistent story she has told all along) and classroom teacher believes her too. she is going to speak to kids today about if an adult makes you feel uncomfortable, you need to say something right away and say "No, thank you!" DD said she was very surprised, and her head hurt, so she didn't say anything.

- At this point, we firmly believe our DD, and won't have her continue in piano lessons with this teacher. She is a nice woman, who has done wonderful things for our DD, but at this point, our DD is upset with piano, and very upset/angry with this teacher, and that is all that is important. It is a phenomenal school, and so we have no issues with her or her brother's safety at all - the principal takes care of them like they are her own. We are very involved and connected parents, and we have an amazing relationship with the school, and so I am glad that we alerted the principal to this situation.

- We are leaving it for the next week for my DH and I to further discuss (I couldn't tell him whole story as kids were right there and then I went to bed early with a sinus headache), but she won't be continuing in the music program.

Thanks to all for your support and help - truly a great group of people on this thread, Tiger

 

[The Hendies]

Thanks for keeping us posted. I am not normally a nosy person, but I supervise 25+ staff caring for 300+ children on a daily basis, and was curious how administrators would handle the situation. From early on, I have found that you just sort of know which children are honest and which are little scammers! I am so sorry your daughter had a negative interaction with an adult she should have trusted, but it is wonderful that she has other adults in her little life that she can trust. I know you are keeping your eye out for any delayed reactions from your daughter. She is a lucky girl to have parents who are also her advocates! Have a blessed day!

 

[grumpeeduck]

Trust your child! Yes, teachers are capable of terrible things, and many of them should NOT be teaching! It amazes me how some people are so "surprised" when something like this happens, it's like they think teachers are perfect. Having gone through 18 years of public schooling with my children, you would be horrified at the things we have experienced by these so called teachers. Be the advocate that you are supposed to be for your child.

 

[princessmom29]

Goodness, you are a very patient person. My initial reaction would be to pull my child from that school. If my child was to continue at the school, I would insist this teacher no longer worked there. I would not want my child to fear going to school or any negative reaction from seeing the music teacher in the hall.

As far as the whole hair pulling incident is concerned, even had your child been talking and the teacher needed her attention, a simple tap on the shoulder would have been more that sufficient. There should never have been contact with her hair.

I think the way this teacher continues to act is very suspicious. She is acting guilty. And if she doesn't have qualms doing this to your daughter, what makes you think she isn't doing this to other children as well? Abusers never stick to just one victim. I was completely creeped out when you said she took your daughter this morning. I would have been livid beyond belief!!!

Good luck to you and your family. You are totally doing the right thing here by following up on it all. Keep listening to your daughter, and as much as you like the school, if she is hesistant to go to school at all in the future, look around for a new one. I fear that until the music teacher is gone, your daughter is going to continue to suffer.

I think pulling the child from the school would be a bit of an overreaction. That is a VERY drastic step to take over one incident like this one. I would think that pulling them from school would be more of an upset to the child than the original incident. I would, however, insist that my child not be left alone with that teacher again, nad let the adminidtration know that I was VERY unhappy about it. If it became a pattern then I think looking at changing schools would become an option.

 

[JUJU814]

Personally, I'd find her a new piano teacher...especially if you want her to continue with piano and love it.

I am 38 now and I still remember like it was yesterday, what happened to me in gymnastics as a little girl. Now, sure, MAYBE, I misread it...or maybe the teacher didn't mean it the way I took it..I don't know..it was like, 30 years ago..but my instructor was frustrated with me for not being able to do a certain move and she dragged me over to another matt and was rather rough with me. I know this isn't the same as pulling a ponytail, but these things are really in the perception of the child...she may as well have grabbed my pony and pulled me over to the other matt.

I NEVER wanted to go back to gymnastics again. I was afraid at the idea of taking gymnastics. I watch it on TV and while I know, as a reasonable adult, that that was one incident, it has stuck with me and I think of it. I watch my dd at gymnastics through the glass and watch her teacher like a hawk. LOL

For me, piano is something I want my kids to stick with..and it's extracurricular...so it's important that they are comfortable with their teacher.

It sounds like you handled it great and your dd is so blessed to have a mom and dad that listen to her and don't brush off her feelings.

Personally, at this point, the way she is reacting..whether or not it happened is irrelevant. She's uncomfortable to have piano with this teacher and I'd find her a new one.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[JUJU814]

ps. I wanted to add something else. More than anything else you've said, which sent lots of red flags..the fact that, after you told this teacher clearly NO lessons this week..that she came and got your daughter on a Monday morning for class, after you specifically said NO lessons, and it was a different day, would make me positively IRATE at this woman. She directly defied what you asked of her. To me, this is what would anger me and I would be even MORE leary of her. Any "benefit of the doubt" I'd given her would be out the window. I think that was extremely ballsy IMHO.

 

[MomtoAlexnWilliam]

I would be beyond mad at the piano teacher who ignored your direction for no lessons this week. It looks very suspicious -- almost as if she wanted to get your daughter alone to convince her it was an accident.

I am concerned that the principal said she couldn't do much more since it was your daughter's word against the teacher. (That is how many abuse situations are.) Does your state not have a mandated reporter statute? Our state requires reporting by mandated reporters when they reasonably believe abuse has happened. School administrators definitely fall into that category. There are criminal penalties for failure to report. The question here is whether or not pulling a ponytail is abuse as defined in the statute. I would guess you would get different answers, depending on who you ask, on this fact pattern. Still --- just wanted to throw out that she said/she said situations are frequently pursued.

 

[ktlm]

- she just kept talking in circles about how she is touchy feely, and she maybe shouldn't do that anymore, she loves my DD and would never hurt her, etc. she said thanks to her for bringing it up, and said we could have our money back for the entire year.

This is exactly the kind of garbage the dance teacher that pulled my hair when I was a kid told my Mom. She even cried crocodile tears when my Mom told her I said I did not like dance and was quitting. My Mom sided with her and tried to use her fake tears to get me to go back to class. If the parents could just have seen how she treated the kids when no adults were looking. I'm glad you aren't buying what she is selling.

I absolutely can not believe that music teacher came and got your DD out of class when you had told her specifically no lessons. I think I would have lost it over that one. She clearly was trying to kiss up or buddy up to your DD alone in hopes that she could make your DD so happy with her that DD would either tell all the grown ups she liked her again or even recant her version of events. I would make a specific point of telling the principal; DD's classroom teacher; the assistant teacher; and probably every other teacher in that school that the music teacher is to have absolutely NO contact with your DD whatsoever, and that if anyone even sees her as much as speaking to your DD they are to stop the contact immediately and report it to you. I would also ask all of the other parents who have kids that take lessons from this teacher if their children have complained of any problems with this teacher, and tell them what happened so they can be on the lookout. Did you ever hear what the friend your daughter was talking to said happened? If you know her parents, I'd probably call her Mom, tell her what your DD said happened, and see if she would ask her daughter what she remembered for you. I'd probably do that even if I didn't already know her Mom pretty well.

I hope your DD doesn't let this ruin piano for her. I hope you find her a new teacher and that she continues to enjoy playing!

 

[bedillamouse]

I just want to say I'm so sorry for your DD that she had to experience this. The thing that bothers me is if the teacher messed up and it was a one time deal or an accident then would she not apologize and do whatever you asked to make it better? If I was the teacher I would meet with you and your DD. I would bend over backwards to make it alright. I think your DD might have even gotten over this if she would have done the right thing. I think your feeling are correct on this one. I just hope your DD doesn't give up on piano and you are able to find someone else. I would hate for her to give up on what she loves because of one bad person. I don't know you or your child but it makes me want to give her a big hug and say sorry and all of us adults are not idiots. I hope things clear up soon and your DD is able to move on quickly and with a better piano teacher!

 

[disneyandme]

What did the other child with your daughter say? There was a witness there with her and I would think that child's story would confirm everything.

 

[seashoreCM]

I would have said that it is acceptable for the teacher to interact with DD after:
1. The teacher acknowledges before you, the principal, and DD that DD's version of the story is 100% accurate,
2. The teacher apologizes profusely,
3. The teacher subordinates herself to DD and to you.
4. DD chooses to allow the interaction.

One who has a negative attaboy is entitled to use positive attaboys to counteract it.

 

[Emma's Dad]

I don't normally follow OT threads, but this one really got to me as my DD is the same age and is taking piano lessons too. I am heartbroken that your DD had to go through that situation. From what you have posted, I agree teacher has been caught in a lie and is not willing to admit the wrong she has done. She has even violated the school policy by not walking your DD back. What else is she doing/not doing? What else can she not be trusted with? Personally, I would not allow that teacher to have any further interaction with your DD.

And for all the previous posters who think this is a "single incident" that should be overlooked and forgotten... how would you feel if that teacher was touching your child inappropriately and denying it? By your inaction you are telling your child the teacher's actions are acceptable and that they should just "suck it up". Way to make your child feel loved and respected.

 

[disneyandme]

So what has happened?

 

[Tiger926]

So what has happened?

Today, she gave DD's teacher our postdated cheques (Nov - June) to return to us. She really should have given us our $50.00 activity fee, as we have nothing to show for that, except a $10.00 music book, but we are grateful for her returning our cheques. She has also been written up about the not handing DD off to teacher, and I have to also give principal a written incident report as well.

DD is fine at school, and so that is what is most important. She has said she might want to take piano lessons again, but for now, we are giving it a rest as life is pretty busy around here.

Thanks to all for your help and support, Tiger

 

[mom2minniemouse]

I'm coming upon this thread late, but I want to say how happy I am that you belived your daughter. She will remember this for the rest of her life!

My daughter had a horrible time at her former school three years ago when she was in the 2nd grade. That year, she had a new teacher to the school (but she was an older lady). At first, she seemed wonderful. However, after DD started coming home and crying saying she hated school, things went downhill fast. She would tell me all sorts of things about how mean her teacher was and really odd and mean things the teacher would say to her. At first, I thought it just couldn't possibly be true. However, I felt in my gut that DD wasn't lying. She might not be perfect, but she's most definitely not a good liar. I know my kid, and she's totally transparent when she tries to lie. LOL! I would call the teacher on it and she would insist DD WAS A LIAR (and yes, she used those exact words!) and that she would never, EVER say the things she did.

At the time, I worked at the school, and the copy room was right across from DD's classroom. One day, while going to make a buttload of copies, I heard the same teacher saying exactly what she had told me the day before that she would never have said to DD! I mean, how stupid was she? Her door was completely open, and she was standing in the doorway! Duh! By now, she was getting the kids ready for recess and was in the hallway about a foot with her back still towards to me. I walked over and tapped her on the shoulder. I didn't have to even say a word. LOL! Luckily, she was let go the next year. (Unfortunately, the powers that be didn't believe me, my DD, or the SEVERAL parents in DD's class who ended up placing complaints that year against that woman. Grrr....)