DC Handgun Ban Overturned

[Andy B]

You live and you learn.

Can you see my puzzlement? It is easy for me to think of the USA without taking into accunt the different states. Also making alcohol (strong drinks)seeingly more difficult to buy than guns seems odd, but I am sure that is not really the case is it.

 

[BuckNaked]

Can you see my puzzlement? It is easy for me to think of the USA without taking into accunt the different states.

No worries - we have plenty of Americans that do the same thing.

 

[sha_lyn]

The same with us in Texas.

Btw, is still true you can buy alcohol on a military base at 18?

That was true at one time, but I believe that all miltary bases now follow the age of the country they are in. Therefore in the US it is 21, but a US base in another country would be the same as the age in that country.

 

[BuckNaked]

The same with us in Texas.

Btw, is still true you can buy alcohol on a military base at 18?

No, it hasn't been that way for quite a few years.

 

[DancingBear]

I don't have any stats in front of me, but looking just at DC, it has one of the highest crime rates in the country, after more than 30 years of banning ownership of handguns. Doesn't sound to me like your correlation works for that city, and I would be surprised to find that it works for any city.

Perhaps, but DC has a state right across the river that is one of the easiest places to buy guns, and the source of many weapons being used for crimes in large cities throughout the northeast.

 

[DancingBear]

Can you see my puzzlement? It is easy for me to think of the USA without taking into accunt the different states. Also making alcohol (strong drinks)seeingly more difficult to buy than guns seems odd, but I am sure that is not really the case is it.

IMO, state stores aren't so much about making it hard to buy alcohol as about capturing revenue for the government. The state stores sell plenty of Mad Dog.

 

[LuvDuke]

No, it hasn't been that way for quite a few years.

What the hell is this world coming to?

Call me old-fashioned, but if you can fight and die for your country, you're old enough to order a beer.

 

[BuckNaked]

What the hell is this world coming to?

Call me old-fashioned, but if you can fight and die for your country, you're old enough to order a beer.

I agree 100%.

I can remember (and I'm really dating myself now ) when Florida allowed liquor sales to anyone in the military that was 18 or older, even after the state drinking age went to 21.

 

[reeeoga]

I'm feeling better now so:

The DC sniper had a stolen weapon. Neither shooter could legally own a weapon.

The Assualt Weapon ban is a joke. I have 2 weapons that if I replace their Fiber stock (the part you hold) with a basic wooden stock makes them not an Assault weapon anymore. Also my hunting rifle shoots a bullet further, with more energy, and much more accuratly than the 2 Assault Weapons. The difference is the Assault weapons cost 11 cents per round to fire verses $1.23 for my hunting rifle. My 2 WW2 Russian surplus rifle also fire further and more accurate than the Assault rifle.

As far a more guns more crime see http://johnrlott.tripod.com/ He is the only person I know of that has not been disproven by anyone in his math or methods that he used to get to his conclusions.

To purchase a gun in the USA you must:
1: be of legal age and can prove it (legal form of ID).
2: fill out a Gun Purchase form. If you lie on the form you have commited a crime (Felony).
3: There is then an instant background check to see if you are elligable to purchase the gun. If you pass, you can then
4: pay for the gun.

To purchase Alcohol you must be of legal drinking age and can prove it.

 

[DancingBear]

Also my hunting rifle shoots a bullet further, with more energy, and much more accuratly than the 2 Assault Weapons. The difference is the Assault weapons cost 11 cents per round to fire verses $1.23 for my hunting rifle.

I don't get the point here with regard to crime. Isn't an assault weapon more suited to most criminal activity? They're usually not talking about long-range accuracy, right?

 

[brerrabbit]

I'm feeling better now so:

The DC sniper had a stolen weapon. Neither shooter could legally own a weapon.

The Assualt Weapon ban is a joke. I have 2 weapons that if I replace their Fiber stock (the part you hold) with a basic wooden stock makes them not an Assault weapon anymore. Also my hunting rifle shoots a bullet further, with more energy, and much more accuratly than the 2 Assault Weapons. The difference is the Assault weapons cost 11 cents per round to fire verses $1.23 for my hunting rifle. My 2 WW2 Russian surplus rifle also fire further and more accurate than the Assault rifle.

As far a more guns more crime see http://johnrlott.tripod.com/ He is the only person I know of that has not been disproven by anyone in his math or methods that he used to get to his conclusions.

To purchase a gun in the USA you must:
1: be of legal age and can prove it (legal form of ID).
2: fill out a Gun Purchase form. If you lie on the form you have commited a crime (Felony).
3: There is then an instant background check to see if you are elligable to purchase the gun. If you pass, you can then
4: pay for the gun.

To purchase Alcohol you must be of legal drinking age and can prove it.

In Texas the rules differ between handgun and long arm (rifle, or shotgun). You can leave the store the same day with the long arm, but there is a one week waiting period on the handgun while they do the background check. Of course all those rules go out the window if you are buying at a gun show from and individual as you can generally walk out the door with anything you buy.

As far as alcohol sales go I must really be dating myself because when I was 18 the legal drinking age in Texas was 18 so we bought legally at the age of 18. They changed the law several years after I hit 21. So I am amoung the generation that got to vote at 18, drink at 18 and never had to register with selective services. To late for Viet Nam and prior to Regan renacting the registration requirement.

 

[Fitswimmer]

What the hell is this world coming to?

Call me old-fashioned, but if you can fight and die for your country, you're old enough to order a beer.

Let's move the military age to 21!

 

[Miss Jasmine]

In Texas the rules differ between handgun and long arm (rifle, or shotgun). You can leave the store the same day with the long arm, but there is a one week waiting period on the handgun while they do the background check. Of course all those rules go out the window if you are buying at a gun show from and individual as you can generally walk out the door with anything you buy.

Yeah, that's close to how it is in Florida, except it's a three-day wait for a handgun from a store, unless you have a concealed carry permit, then you can purchase it on the spot. The odd thing is that if you are a law enforcement officer you still have to wait the three days.

 

[brerrabbit]

I forgot to mention that but in Texas with a concealled carry permit you can take it the same day as well. Law Enforcement have no wait and are treated the same as as permit holders and can take it the same day.

 

[dolcezena]

Sorry, I forget who said that fining people for not registering their guns didn't make sense. But maybe I just didn't explain myself well....

If someone who owned guns failed to register them by a specific date, they would be fined, therefore, it is a form of criminalizing gun ownership. And yes, if I don't license my dog, I will also be fined for that, just as I would be for not "fixing" my cat.

As for the state run liquor store thing, it's the norm here in Canada. Each province has a liquor board. Even Alberta has one, though they allow private owners to actually run the retail aspect of the business. Absolutely the gov'ts run them to collect revenue, but with the way the feral gov't taxes liquor, ALL liquor stores, public or private are "tax collectors."

And finally, I have a question (please don't flame me, I am just curious). Outside of their tactical value to the military or police, why would the average citizen want to own armour piercing ammunition? Or, for that matter, an automatic weapon? Is it just the collectibility factor, or something else?

 

[MassJester]

I don't have any stats in front of me, but looking just at DC, it has one of the highest crime rates in the country, after more than 30 years of banning ownership of handguns. Doesn't sound to me like your correlation works for that city, and I would be surprised to find that it works for any city.

I'm not sure isolating a single city works when it is surrounded by jurisdictions that allow for free traffic in weapons.

 

[Christopher Robin]

And finally, I have a question (please don't flame me, I am just curious). Outside of their tactical value to the military or police, why would the average citizen want to own armour piercing ammunition? Or, for that matter, an automatic weapon? Is it just the collectibility factor, or something else?

OP here. First chance to look back at the thread. Interesting response so far.

If I can take a shot at a recent question:

Armor piercing is a misnomer. It's all about the kinetic energy (unless you're refering to Black Talon type ammo). My .300 H&H Mag is the equivelant of a .30 Cal machinegun round, but it is used for large game, typical of that used out west for Elk at long range. It will go through an engine block if need be, I suppose, but the use is for hunting big game at longer ranges.

And the question about automatic weapons is a bit off, as full automatic reifles have been banned from private ownership since the 30's unless one has a Federal permit. Or did you mean semi-automatic (ie. one pull of the trigger, one bullet)?

 

[dolcezena]

Armor piercing is a misnomer. It's all about the kinetic energy (unless you're refering to Black Talon type ammo). My .300 H&H Mag is the equivelant of a .30 Cal machinegun round, but it is used for large game, typical of that used out west for Elk at long range. It will go through an engine block if need be, I suppose, but the use is for hunting big game at longer ranges.

Thank you - for that reason, I can understand wanting them. I have zero idea of what Black Talons are.

And the question about automatic weapons is a bit off, as full automatic reifles have been banned from private ownership since the 30's unless one has a Federal permit. Or did you mean semi-automatic (ie. one pull of the trigger, one bullet)?

I have no idea what I mean! That's how little I know about guns, & DFi (who does) is at work & wasn't here for me to ask! Maybe I'm just thinking of things like ak47's & stuff like that. I seriously don't know if that's a legal weapon or not.

I guess I meant why would someone own a gun that has no "antique" value, or would be impractical for hunting (ie-"shred" the animal rather than making a clean kill that allows the meat to be used) or for competitive purposes. I mean there are guns that are just designed to shoot as many bullets as possible, right? Or am I just reading too much bad fiction?

 

[brerrabbit]

Wow, a lot of interesting stuff being talked about here, but for explainations.

Armour piercing shells can mean a lot of things. Tank killers are depleted uranium bars and nothing is stopping them. High kinetic energy like the .300 magnum will go through a lot of things as well. But even in the hand gun world companies have come up with teflon coated bulletd that embedd small bb's on the tip of the bullet that will defeat certain body armour so when you say armour piercing it can mean a lot of things. As for automatic weapons your misunderstanding of guns is what sometimes gets me riled as a gun owner when people start talking about banning certain weapons. I support the banning of fully automatic guns. The definition being you pull and hold the trigger and the gun shoots till it runs out of shells. A semi automatic weapon is one where you get one shot each time you pull the trigger without operating a bolt or action. Think shotguns and .22 rifles. The last is a action type weapon, bolt action, pump shotgun, that sort of thing. One ban proposal actually wanted to outlaw all guns that could hold over three shells. bullets. Well my pump shotgun holds three shells because to hunt migratory birds thats the law, however if I take the plug out it can hold five shells, four in the magazine and one in the chamber. The lunacy of this proposal was that supposedly John Kerry was said to be a supporter of the proposal and yet he was photographed hunting during the election using a pump gun that could hold five shells.

The really fine line is that you can legally buy AK-47's and AR-15's (look like M-16's and are the civilian version) that are legal and only semi autos but go to any gun show and for like $10 you can buy the conversion kit to make it fully auto. Now as a sportsman I want to keep my guns but still support the banning of some. The current gun debate leaves no room for me as you either want to ban guns on the far left or you want to make Browning .50 caliber fully auto machine guns, and RPG's (rocket propelled gernades) legal like the NRA does. What we need is a comprimise that meets somewhere in the middle.

 

[DancingBear]

I just want to take a moment here to note this is probably the most civil discussion on this topic that I've ever seen.