Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[fsjking]

Not correct. You can transfer on a one off basis points from one owner to another.

To another owner. Too many people on here want to claim they rented and/or sold points to renters.

 

[Amymouse13]

Disney furloughed 42,000 employees per news. David's window of voucher keeps getting smaller.

 

[poofyo101]

I wrote exactly that- Ponzi scheme, in my documentation for chargeback. I had asked about Disney being closed and wanting to reschedule or see what options were and they said one owner cancelled my reservation. The other did as well. I don't have email for the one but was cancelled 18 days before trip so not Disney. They probably had folks cancel before they dreamed up their Ponzi scheme. No way they can pay for cash reservations 2 years out of they don't get cash back from owners. Shady as f.

It sure does sound like a ponzi scheme right now.

 

[ziravan]

To another owner. Too many people on here want to claim they rented and/or sold points to renters.

It’s a game of semantics, and has long been an issue of debate on this and other boards.

My contract says rents points. I’ve been told countless times on this board that the technical term is “renting a reservation”. What really matters is not Disney’s definition or even yours, but the legal understanding beween me and my client, as evidenced by the contract between us. And that contract says that the renter has a reservation based upon the value of points and if that reservation cannot be fulfilled, any restitution is based upon the remaining value of the points. That is and was a far better deal than the alternative: a force majeure clause that says the renter agrees to a 50% loss in the event of circumstances beyond the parties to fulfill the reservation. In the case of my renter affected, that definition entitled them to a rebooking at full value, which is already booked, based on the remaining value of the points that were still more than good for use in the Fall.

It matters very much for people like David’s to limit their understanding of the contract to renting a specific reservation. In my case, because I’m willing to be flexible with moving dates, it very much matters that my renters understand that that flexibility is a function of the residual value of the points themselves. That distinction served my affected renter quite well.

All that said, I’m also the type of guy to use the term “clip”, and especially my personal favorite expression, “bullets in a clip”- in a gun owners forum.... and if that’s not your cup of tea, just know that there are dozens of readers out there silently saying to themselves, “rounds in a magazine.”

 

[waltfan1957]

I'm absolutely floored by that response from David's.

They're basically saying that if you, as the owner, reach out and help your renter, that David's will not be paying the final 30% due on check in day!

That is the most outrageous thing they've done yet, and I didn't think they could top what they already had done!

That's not what it says at all.

 

[waltfan1957]

Why should the owner lose out?

How are you losing out if you got to keep the 70% and got your points back I don't understand this

 

[waltfan1957]

One difference is you chose to cancel. Had the hotel closed or cancelled your reservation the situation night be different...

 

[Deb & Bill]

How are you losing out if you got to keep the 70% and got your points back I don't understand this

If the points expired before they could be used again (very likely in many cases) and the owner gave back the 70% (really only 53% of the total, but 70% of what they were supposed to get), the owner winds up with nothing. April 2019 points expired on Mar 31, 2010. June 2019 points expire on May 31, 2020 and DVC isn't permitting owners to bank those points. If the owner used banked 2018 points those expired and could not be banked a second time.

 

[McCrae]

How are you losing out if you got to keep the 70% and got your points back I don't understand this

In the context of my reply owners would lose out. They poster was seeking a refund. The owner potentially will have paid annual dues on points they can’t use.

 

[McCrae]

To another owner. Too many people on here want to claim they rented and/or sold points to renters.

Doesn’t matter, it makes it clear you can sell points.

The contract owners have with David’s is for points. Points do not have to be used for DVC use. They could be rented for Disney Cruises, Disney Hotels, Disney Adventure holidays and non Disney Vacations with other companies such as Hilton. David’s contract with renters is different to the one he has with owners. Providing a owner does not cancel a reservation David’s regard the contract as being completed with the owner.

 

[boxer11]

I wouldn't wait on David's to figure it out and request a full refund. I would first contact David's then my credit card company ASAP. Let the credit card company & David's fight it out over the charge back. Most if not all companies in the travel business are issuing full refunds and letting customers back out of any contracts. If David's files for bankruptcy the renter will be left with 0 and a worthless travel credit voucher. It's the customers "renters" money and they shouldn't be left holding the bag.

 

[CraigInPA]

If David's files for bankruptcy the renter will be left with 0 and a worthless travel credit voucher. It's the customers "renters" money and they shouldn't be left holding the bag.

It is also the 30% owed to owners that hasn't been paid for future rentals, and apparently some rentals that were cancelled by DVC that David's decided to not pay.

I agree with your advice, though. If I was a renter holding a cancelled by DVC reservation, I would go the chargeback route with my credit card company instead of receiving a potentially worthless travel voucher.

 

[Amymouse13]

It is also the 30% owed to owners that hasn't been paid for future rentals, and apparently some rentals that were cancelled by DVC that David's decided to not pay.

I agree with your advice, though. If I was a renter holding a cancelled by DVC reservation, I would go the chargeback route with my credit card company instead of receiving a potentially worthless travel voucher.

And I already sent my paperwork in for chargeback so no thanks on voucher... If I ever hear from them. Freaking con artists. Too late lol

 

[fsjking]

It’s a game of semantics, and has long been an issue of debate on this and other boards.

My contract says rents points. I’ve been told countless times on this board that the technical term is “renting a reservation”. What really matters is not Disney’s definition or even yours, but the legal understanding beween me and my client, as evidenced by the contract between us. And that contract says that the renter has a reservation based upon the value of points and if that reservation cannot be fulfilled, any restitution is based upon the remaining value of the points. That is and was a far better deal than the alternative: a force majeure clause that says the renter agrees to a 50% loss in the event of circumstances beyond the parties to fulfill the reservation. In the case of my renter affected, that definition entitled them to a rebooking at full value, which is already booked, based on the remaining value of the points that were still more than good for use in the Fall.

It matters very much for people like David’s to limit their understanding of the contract to renting a specific reservation. In my case, because I’m willing to be flexible with moving dates, it very much matters that my renters understand that that flexibility is a function of the residual value of the points themselves. That distinction served my affected renter quite well.

All that said, I’m also the type of guy to use the term “clip”, and especially my personal favorite expression, “bullets in a clip”- in a gun owners forum.... and if that’s not your cup of tea, just know that there are dozens of readers out there silently saying to themselves, “rounds in a magazine.”

Doesn’t matter, it makes it clear you can sell points.

The contract owners have with David’s is for points. Points do not have to be used for DVC use. They could be rented for Disney Cruises, Disney Hotels, Disney Adventure holidays and non Disney Vacations with other companies such as Hilton. David’s contract with renters is different to the one he has with owners. Providing a owner does not cancel a reservation David’s regard the contract as being completed with the owner.

Your contract with David's or a renter is irrelevant to the point transfer question. Show where in your contract with DVC that you have the right to sell, rent, or transfer points to someone who is not a DVC owner, not just make a reservation for someone using points. If you don't have that, it doesn't matter what your contract with David's or a renter says. You don't have the legal right to do it. You can use your points to make reservations or cruises all day. You can't rent or sell the points to a non-owner. I showed in a contract the proof. Now it's your turn. If you can't, your case is lost.

 

[McCrae]

Your contract with David's or a renter is irrelevant to the point transfer question. Show where in your contract with DVC that you have the right to sell, rent, or transfer points to someone who is not a DVC owner, not just make a reservation for someone using points. If you don't have that, it doesn't matter what your contract with David's or a renter says. You don't have the legal right to do it. You can use your points to make reservations or cruises all day. You can't rent or sell the points to a non-owner. I showed in a contract the proof. Now it's your turn. If you can't, your case is lost.

If a renter cannot receive points because they are not a member it’s their problem. If they want points transferred to them they can become members. As an owner we don’t know or care about the membership status of the renter. It’s up to the renter to understand what they are buying.

I. Owners contracts are with David’s. Any payment for breaching that contract are made to David’s, not directly to any renter. Refunds from owners in connection with the Virus are not being paid to any renter. David’s is keeping them.

2. Renters pay David’s they don’t pay the owners.

3. The owners contract is very clear. They get paid when the reservation is made and receive a balance when a renter checks in. Owners are only liable for a refund if they cancel the reservation or take action to stop it happening.

4. The no refunds or changes clause is signed by the renter.

As an owner who is willing to help I know that I have Hee Haw liability to do anything I don’t want to. Any help I give is down to my goodwill.

Renters may have a claim against David’s, but they have zero chance of making a successful claim against owners.

 

[Sandisw]

If a renter cannot receive points because they are not a member it’s their problem. If they want points transferred to them they can become members. As an owner we don’t know or care about the membership status of the renter. It’s up to the renter to understand what they are buying.

I. Owners contracts are with David’s. Any payment for breaching that contract are made to David’s, not directly to any renter. Refunds from owners in connection with the Virus are not being paid to any renter. David’s is keeping them.

2. Renters pay David’s they don’t pay the owners.

3. The owners contract is very clear. They get paid when the reservation is made and receive a balance when a renter checks in. Owners are only liable for a refund if they cancel the reservation or take action to stop it happening.

4. The no refunds or changes clause is signed by the renter.

As an owner who is willing to help I know that I have Hee Haw liability to do anything I don’t want to. Any help I give is down to my goodwill.

Renters may have a claim against David’s, but they have zero chance of making a successful claim against owners.

I think you are missing the point being made, There is actual contract language, whether you agree or not, that specifically says points can not rented,

There is also contract language that allows us to rent reservations.

So, per POS, an owner is allowed to a rent a reservation. But , If an owner insists they rent points, not reservations, then they have, in essence, violated one aspect of the ownership document.

If I was a renter, and was having trouble with Davids claiming that, I would point out I had paid for something that was not legally allowed

 

[lovethesun12]

If a renter cannot receive points because they are not a member it’s their problem. If they want points transferred to them they can become members. As an owner we don’t know or care about the membership status of the renter. It’s up to the renter to understand what they are buying.

I. Owners contracts are with David’s. Any payment for breaching that contract are made to David’s, not directly to any renter. Refunds from owners in connection with the Virus are not being paid to any renter. David’s is keeping them.

2. Renters pay David’s they don’t pay the owners.

3. The owners contract is very clear. They get paid when the reservation is made and receive a balance when a renter checks in. Owners are only liable for a refund if they cancel the reservation or take action to stop it happening.

4. The no refunds or changes clause is signed by the renter.

As an owner who is willing to help I know that I have Hee Haw liability to do anything I don’t want to. Any help I give is down to my goodwill.

Renters may have a claim against David’s, but they have zero chance of making a successful claim against owners.

I reread my contract after reading this. It says the owner agrees to provide a reservation from date x to date y. They are not providing that. So the contract seems it would have to be void.

 

[ziravan]

I think you are missing the point being made, There is actual contract language, whether you agree or not, that specifically says points can not rented,

There is also contract language that allows us to rent reservations.

So, per POS, an owner is allowed to a rent a reservation. But , If an owner insists they rent points, not reservations, then they have, in essence, violated one aspect of the ownership document.

If I was a renter, and was having trouble with Davids claiming that, I would point out I had paid for something that was not legally allowed

Again, it’s semantics and if you read the POS, even Disney understands that this is a wordplay to meet Florida Timeshare law.

How does a member rent from DVC? They, wait for it, buy one-time-use points. That’s DVC’s own expression of their points rental business.

When DVC charges dues, it does so by the point. But how can DVC assess a charge per point if points have no value?? It’s a conspiracy I tell you!!

How are reservations priced through David’s? Yes, by the point - but if the owner’s contract with Disney says the points have no value (and it does), then David’s broke the rules by charging a value per point and all his contracts are void, having violated the POS of the owners.

or

We can understand that regardless whether we call them bullets or rounds, clips or magazines, everybody here knows that points are what are loaded into reservations. And just like firepower is gauged by the size of the round (.45, 22lr), reservations are typically metered by the price per point - regardless what Disney officially claims are the value of those points.

Points are a purchase medium for DVC reservations and have value equal to the reservation value divided by the number of points necessary to secure the reservation. Securing that reservation means first acquiring the points, at the value they represent. Everything else is wordplay.

My private contract with renters is specific enough to convey what is being purchased and the roles both parties play in turning that purchase into a valid reservation. If I broke “the rules” by refusing to entertain the fiction that points have no value, then so did Disney. So did David’s.

 

[Sandisw]

Again, it’s semantics and if you read the POS, even Disney understands that this is a wordplay to meet Florida Timeshare law.

How does a member rent from DVC? They, wait for it, buy one-time-use points. That’s DVC’s own expression of their points rental business.

When DVC charges dues, it does so by the point. But how can DVC assess a charge per point if points have no value?? It’s a conspiracy I tell you!!

How are reservations priced through David’s? Yes, by the point - but if the owner’s contract with Disney says the points have no value (and it does), then David’s broke the rules by charging a value per point and all his contracts are void, having violated the POS of the owners.

or

We can understand that regardless whether we call them bullets or rounds, clips or magazines, everybody here knows that points are what are loaded into reservations. And just like firepower is gauged by the size of the round (.45, 22lr), reservations are typically metered by the price per point - regardless what Disney officially claims are the value of those points.

Points are a purchase medium for DVC reservations and have value equal to the reservation value divided by the number of points necessary to secure the reservation. Securing that reservation means first acquiring the points, at the value they represent. Everything else is wordplay.

My private contract with renters is specific enough to convey what is being purchased and the roles both parties play in turning that purchase into a valid reservation. If I broke “the rules” by refusing to entertain the fiction that points have no value, then so did Disney. So did David’s.

Disney is actually transferring their own points to another owner. It’s not in anyway like a rental.

And, yes, Disney does have different rules then we do as owners so they are allowed to charge for them, where we can not charge for a transfer.

It is a point that not all agree. I still maintain that what owners do, regardless of language used, is rent reservations made with points. It’s okay others disagree.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Disney is actually transferring their own points to another owner. It’s not in anyway like a rental.

If they were transferring it would have to be current points and they would be bankable which the OTU points are not. I don't know what it really is that DVC is doing with the OTU points. A quasi transfer? A limited transfer? Now that you bring it up it's a bit strange. Another of their own rules.