Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[Disney1fan2002]

Can someone help me figure out if David's is screwing everyone involved?

1) they are not refunding renters who have had their reservations cancelled due to the pandemic, they are offering travel vouchers. Do these travel vouchers have an expiration date?
2) they are asking owners to refund the 70%, but understand if the owner can't do that, so they are asking the owner to re-rent the points out for the remaining 30%.

Some owners have refunded the 70% to David's either to get their points back, or re-rent them for the new price of $14.50/pp. I don't know.

What I have so far is David's has the renter's original money for X amount of points paid in full upfront. They have paid out 70% of it to the owner. Some of which have given back the 70%. That 70% does not go back to the renter. They then take the points from the cancelled reservation and place them back in the queue to be re-rented. He is charging the new renters full price for the points, but only paying the owner the 30% balance left on the previous reservations. 70% stays with David's. I can only assume that some renters will have to eat the cost of their vacation that was cancelled, some vouchers will never be used. It seems to me, the people taking the full brunt of this are both the owners and the renters, while David's just sits back taking money from everyone. Am I right or do I have this all wrong?

 

[Amymouse13]

Can someone help me figure out if David's is screwing everyone involved?

1) they are not refunding renters who have had their reservations cancelled due to the pandemic, they are offering travel vouchers. Do these travel vouchers have an expiration date?
2) they are asking owners to refund the 70%, but understand if the owner can't do that, so they are asking the owner to re-rent the points out for the remaining 30%.

Some owners have refunded the 70% to David's either to get their points back, or re-rent them for the new price of $14.50/pp. I don't know.

What I have so far is David's has the renter's original money for X amount of points paid in full upfront. They have paid out 70% of it to the owner. Some of which have given back the 70%. That 70% does not go back to the renter. They then take the points from the cancelled reservation and place them back in the queue to be re-rented. He is charging the new renters full price for the points, but only paying the owner the 30% balance left on the previous reservations. 70% stays with David's. I can only assume that some renters will have to eat the cost of their vacation that was cancelled, some vouchers will never be used. It seems to me, the people taking the full brunt of this are both the owners and the renters, while David's just sits back taking money from everyone. Am I right or do I have this all wrong?

I did a chargeback because I don't trust the voucher to be worth anything

 

[McCrae]

I wasn't aware that I could walk away. At first, when I told them my points expire the end of May, they told me they understood if I could not refund the 70%. Then, they found out DVC was extending the expire dates, so the email they sent me was basically telling me to let them know what use year I was in so they can point my points back in the queu. Why wouldn't they just use my points to re-book my original renters? I guess I can walk away if they won't honor the original contract I signed for the points, correct?

I would have been happy to use my points to re book the original renter, David’s won’t allow it. He says the contract is with him and not the renter. He is breaking the contract he has with you by not paying the 30% he owes you. My points are not distressed and I have decided to cut my losses and walk away. You owe David’s nothing. It’s very much your choice on what to do next. David’s can’t demand any refund from you and he can’t force you to re-rent your points. Any money you give back to David’s goes into his pocket and not your renters.

 

[McCrae]

Can someone help me figure out if David's is screwing everyone involved?

1) they are not refunding renters who have had their reservations cancelled due to the pandemic, they are offering travel vouchers. Do these travel vouchers have an expiration date?
2) they are asking owners to refund the 70%, but understand if the owner can't do that, so they are asking the owner to re-rent the points out for the remaining 30%.

Some owners have refunded the 70% to David's either to get their points back, or re-rent them for the new price of $14.50/pp. I don't know.

What I have so far is David's has the renter's original money for X amount of points paid in full upfront. They have paid out 70% of it to the owner. Some of which have given back the 70%. That 70% does not go back to the renter. They then take the points from the cancelled reservation and place them back in the queue to be re-rented. He is charging the new renters full price for the points, but only paying the owner the 30% balance left on the previous reservations. 70% stays with David's. I can only assume that some renters will have to eat the cost of their vacation that was cancelled, some vouchers will never be used. It seems to me, the people taking the full brunt of this are both the owners and the renters, while David's just sits back taking money from everyone. Am I right or do I have this all wrong?

David’s is trying to screw the renter and owner. The vouchers have a 2 year expiry date. Under the new contract you would be liable to payback renters. Currently you have no liability.

David’s will make money from you re-renting points. He gets another commission, he Keeps all of the money from the re- rental. You get paid your original 30% from money he already has received from your renter. David is basically getting 1 extra commission plus an extra 30%.

You get your points back no matter what. You can rent them through another broker if you like, or use them as you see fit.

I would ignore any emails you get from David’s.

 

[Sandisw]

Can someone help me figure out if David's is screwing everyone involved?

1) they are not refunding renters who have had their reservations cancelled due to the pandemic, they are offering travel vouchers. Do these travel vouchers have an expiration date?
2) they are asking owners to refund the 70%, but understand if the owner can't do that, so they are asking the owner to re-rent the points out for the remaining 30%.

Some owners have refunded the 70% to David's either to get their points back, or re-rent them for the new price of $14.50/pp. I don't know.

What I have so far is David's has the renter's original money for X amount of points paid in full upfront. They have paid out 70% of it to the owner. Some of which have given back the 70%. That 70% does not go back to the renter. They then take the points from the cancelled reservation and place them back in the queue to be re-rented. He is charging the new renters full price for the points, but only paying the owner the 30% balance left on the previous reservations. 70% stays with David's. I can only assume that some renters will have to eat the cost of their vacation that was cancelled, some vouchers will never be used. It seems to me, the people taking the full brunt of this are both the owners and the renters, while David's just sits back taking money from everyone. Am I right or do I have this all wrong?

Pretty much. The 70% owners have is not 70% of total paid..only what they are owed.

If vouchers go unused, he ends up with that value. Of course, there are some owners who wont refund or re-rent which leaves him about 50% short. But he is charging renters with vouchers new prices and not given owners whose points need to be rented nothing more.

IMO, he should have offered any renter whose owner refunded their money back...even keeping The part for his commission, rescheduled them if owner could or give voucher when neither could happen.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Then, they found out DVC was extending the expire dates, so the email they sent me was basically telling me to let them know what use year I was in so they can point my points back in the queu. Why wouldn't they just use my points to re-book my original renters? I guess I can walk away if they won't honor the original contract I signed for the points, correct?

He cannot force you to make a booking. You control the points.

 

[spinchy]

David’s is trying to screw the renter and owner. The vouchers have a 2 year expiry date. Under the new contract you would be liable to payback renters. Currently you have no liability.

David’s will make money from you re-renting points. He gets another commission, he Keeps all of the money from the re- rental. You get paid your original 30% from money he already has received from your renter. David is basically getting 1 extra commission plus an extra 30%.

You get your points back no matter what. You can rent them through another broker if you like, or use them as you see fit.

I would ignore any emails you get from David’s.

I agree with all of this except the part about David’s collecting an extra commission. As the voucher includes the value of the original commission, if the renter uses the full voucher for another booking then the original commission is effectively ‘refunded’. I see David’s main bonus profits coming from unused or partially used vouchers.

 

[Bearval]

He would have to give you the credit. The only way he could possibly win a chargeback is by claiming he is giving you a credit voucher.

The original contract stated that there was no refund if you violated your obligation as a renter. If you did not than you should get a refund since the original contract did not say voucher. Make sure you state that in you request for a charge bacm

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

So, the owners that are refunding the 70% are the owners that want their points back I would hope.

Some owner's points are distressed or may have even expired at this point (hence, why they rented them in the first place). I suspect this is one reason why a lot of owners have no interest in refunding the 70%. The points they'll "get back" will still be lost and the owner will get nothing.

Another reason is that the refunded money is not going back to their renter. They're concerned that the money is being kept by David. Theoretically, that money will be used to fund the renter's vacation when they redeem the voucher David's issued them.

ETA: the e-mail I got from David's about the cancelled reservations implied that if I could return the 70% the renter would be refunded. I'm glad I came upon these threads to discover otherwise.

The renter is getting "refunded" with a voucher.

 

[Bearval]

Some owner's points are distressed or may have even expired at this point (hence, why they rented them in the first place). I suspect this is one reason why a lot of owners have no interest in refunding the 70%. The points they'll "get back" will still be lost and the owner will get nothing.

Another reason is that the refunded money is not going back to their renter. They're concerned that the money is being kept by David. Theoretically, that money will be used to fund the renter's vacation when they redeem the voucher David's issued them.


The renter is getting "refunded" with a voucher.

View attachment 495140

A voucher is not a refund. I have past transactions (not with Davids) where the merchant tried to give me a voucher and my charge back was successful. The merchant had a no refund policy (it was a water park that was closed due to an equipment breakdown on the day we were to go).

 

[Sandisw]

I agree with all of this except the part about David’s collecting an extra commission. As the voucher includes the value of the original commission, if the renter uses the full voucher for another booking then the original commission is effectively ‘refunded’. I see David’s main bonus profits coming from unused or partially used vouchers.

Add that owners re-renting points aren’t getting the extra $1 he is charging new renters, That goes into his pocket, along with the extra it will cost some of the current renters to secure same room since his fees have gone up.

 

[Disaseny]

Can someone help me figure out if David's is screwing everyone involved?

1) they are not refunding renters who have had their reservations cancelled due to the pandemic, they are offering travel vouchers. Do these travel vouchers have an expiration date?
2) they are asking owners to refund the 70%, but understand if the owner can't do that, so they are asking the owner to re-rent the points out for the remaining 30%.

Some owners have refunded the 70% to David's either to get their points back, or re-rent them for the new price of $14.50/pp. I don't know.

What I have so far is David's has the renter's original money for X amount of points paid in full upfront. They have paid out 70% of it to the owner. Some of which have given back the 70%. That 70% does not go back to the renter. They then take the points from the cancelled reservation and place them back in the queue to be re-rented. He is charging the new renters full price for the points, but only paying the owner the 30% balance left on the previous reservations. 70% stays with David's. I can only assume that some renters will have to eat the cost of their vacation that was cancelled, some vouchers will never be used. It seems to me, the people taking the full brunt of this are both the owners and the renters, while David's just sits back taking money from everyone. Am I right or do I have this all wrong?

Throw in the fact that the vouchers have a 24 month expiration date from the time it is issued. If issued in Aprl, it's more like 20 months if he is not booking until August or later.

 

[WDWEPCOT]

So do I have this correct - if David issues you a voucher your time clock starts ticking on the voucher regardless if you accept it or not ?

 

[WDWEPCOT]

Oh AND he isn’t booking on those vouchers right now that the time clock is ticking on correct ??

 

[starry_solo]

Oh AND he isn’t booking on those vouchers right now that the time clock is ticking on correct ??

@WDWEPCOT : vouchers aren't being issued until the renter agrees to the new contract.

 

[WDWEPCOT]

Thank you yeah I don’t believe I would do that !!

 

[Bearval]

Thank you yeah I don’t believe I would do that !!

I would go for the charge back

Thank you yeah I don’t believe I would do that !!

I would go for the charge back , just make sure you send them all of the facts and that the voucher will not work for you.

 

[WDWEPCOT]

I believe for a renter a chargeback is the best option
I am just curious as an owner if your renter takes a voucher - where does that leave you in regards to the contracts ? As an owner I feel I have fulfilled my end of my contract with David and feel David has taken it upon himself to change the contracts without consulting the parties who signed the contracts and I feel he has in several cases broken the contracts
Now if the renter signs a new contract (voucher ) how does that cancel void etc the old contract ??? Where does that leave all parties in these contracts ? Again contacts are legal binding documents they must have a beginning and an end - do we have that in the first contracts ?
If the answer is no - then the contract should have a remedy and by law that remedy should be followed - that is the whole f point of a contract otherwise why do we have them ?
Now if David has been caught talking out of both sides of his mouth to Owners and Renters ( posted on these boards ) why would you trust him to sign another contract with him? I’m just curious - as I am not seeing him behave at least with me in any form as a respectable business and I am both currently a renter and a owner with him.

 

[Sandisw]

I believe for a renter a chargeback is the best option
I am just curious as an owner if your renter takes a voucher - where does that leave you in regards to the contracts ? As an owner I feel I have fulfilled my end of my contract with David and feel David has taken it upon himself to change the contracts without consulting the parties who signed the contracts and I feel he has in several cases broken the contracts
Now if the renter signs a new contract (voucher ) how does that cancel void etc the old contract ??? Where does that leave all parties in these contracts ? Again contacts are legal binding documents they must have a beginning and an end - do we have that in the first contracts ?
If the answer is no - then the contract should have a remedy and by law that remedy should be followed - that is the whole f point of a contract otherwise why do we have them ?
Now if David has been caught talking out of both sides of his mouth to Owners and Renters ( posted on these boards ) why would you trust him to sign another contract with him? I’m just curious - as I am not seeing him behave at least with me in any form as a respectable business and I am both currently a renter and a owner with him.

I know if there is an issue for my renter in August, I will offer the following...reschedule the original renter, under terms of old contract.::not responsible for Future closure or forfeit my 30% to be released from the contract,

Not willing to agree to anything else,

 

[Bearval]

I believe for a renter a chargeback is the best option
I am just curious as an owner if your renter takes a voucher - where does that leave you in regards to the contracts ? As an owner I feel I have fulfilled my end of my contract with David and feel David has taken it upon himself to change the contracts without consulting the parties who signed the contracts and I feel he has in several cases broken the contracts
Now if the renter signs a new contract (voucher ) how does that cancel void etc the old contract ??? Where does that leave all parties in these contracts ? Again contacts are legal binding documents they must have a beginning and an end - do we have that in the first contracts ?
If the answer is no - then the contract should have a remedy and by law that remedy should be followed - that is the whole f point of a contract otherwise why do we have them ?
Now if David has been caught talking out of both sides of his mouth to Owners and Renters ( posted on these boards ) why would you trust him to sign another contract with him? I’m just curious - as I am not seeing him behave at least with me in any form as a respectable business and I am both currently a renter and a owner with him.

My understanding is that by accepting the voucher you surrender you ability to seek a chargeback.