Darn Elf Shoppe!!!!

[GJM]

Yes, school is for learning, but for the half hour they may be in the school holiday shop, isn't going to make that much of a difference. Kids need a break, and after voluntering at the shop about everyday this week, they really do enjoy it and take alot of pride in what they pick out.

When you have a little boy showing you a necklace he picked out for his Mom all by himself, it is the cutest thing. I tell them how much she is going to love it, and what a great job they did.

They won't fail the class by going to the Holiday Shop for a half hour, if that, some classes only stayed 15 minutes.

 

[mumzie2three]

Wow read what you want.

I never said they dont make people feel welcome or they dont welcome new ideas. We have a VERY strong PTO with lots of volunteers. But unless I am willing to make my ideas and give more of my time happen then it is not fair to criticize those that do make the event possible. And you are going to come in and start critizsing what other parents bust their butts to make happen. I wouldnt be to thrilled if I was chairing a committee if someone came in with I am going to change it all esp if others thought it was successful. I think you need to watch how you approach bc you dont know if you are the only one complaining or not. Maybe others are thrilled with how the event is run and you are the only one not happy.

Right back at you. What made you think I was "going to come in and start critisizing what other parents bust their butts to make happen". For all you know a couple of hacks throw together our school's Elf Shoppe.

It's not like I'm writing a letter to the editor of our local paper, decrying the school's Elf Shoppe.

And please find the "change it all" attitude in any of my posts. I think I have a good attitude. I see something that I think could use some improving and joining the PTO seems like the best way to try to accomplish that.

 

[Mkrop]

Right back at you. What made you think I was "going to come in and start critisizing what other parents bust their butts to make happen". For all you know a couple of hacks throw together our school's Elf Shoppe.

It's not like I'm writing a letter to the editor of our local paper, decrying the school's Elf Shoppe.

And please find the "change it all" attitude in any of my posts. I think I have a good attitude. I see something that I think could use some improving and joining the PTO seems like the best way to try to accomplish that.

okey dokey then good luck to you

 

[RUDisney]

Wow read what you want.

I never said they dont make people feel welcome or they dont welcome new ideas. We have a VERY strong PTO with lots of volunteers. But unless I am willing to make my ideas and give more of my time happen then it is not fair to criticize those that do make the event possible. And you are going to come in and start critizsing what other parents bust their butts to make happen. I wouldnt be to thrilled if I was chairing a committee if someone came in with I am going to change it all esp if others thought it was successful. I think you need to watch how you approach bc you dont know if you are the only one complaining or not. Maybe others are thrilled with how the event is run and you are the only one not happy.

Right back at you. What made you think I was "going to come in and start critisizing what other parents bust their butts to make happen". For all you know a couple of hacks throw together our school's Elf Shoppe.

It's not like I'm writing a letter to the editor of our local paper, decrying the school's Elf Shoppe.

And please find the "change it all" attitude in any of my posts. I think I have a good attitude. I see something that I think could use some improving and joining the PTO seems like the best way to try to accomplish that.

I've gotta admit that I've read your comments, mumzie2three, as you being a bull in a china shop. I'm not meaning to be disrespectful or make you mad. It's just that from what you are "saying", I have heard your tone to be harsher than what you "said" in your last post. It sounds like mkrop "heard" the same tone.

Please don't be insulted by what mkrop said. Instead, take it to heart. When you go to your first PTO meeting, sit and listen. If you're going to ask questions, make them just be questions at the first meeting and not questions with suggestions, if you KWIM. There are plenty of ways to scale a wall. If you do this with patience and respect of the work that the others have been doing, you'll get further than by trying to bust through the wall.

It sounds like you want to scale it by working with the other PTO mothers. That will get you accepted into the group. I am responsible for our PTA's monthly newsletter. Those who complain that the newsletter wasn't printed in time for the start of the month never volunteer to print it themselves. (We only print 29 copies each month. Everyone else accesses it online.) These people are not PTA members, but want to know what is going on in the school (I can't blame them for that) and a few of them have computers and internet service at home but are too lazy to pull it up themselves. I love the people who bring me suggestions for articles or things that they need advertised. I turn off those who just want to idly complain with no helpful alternatives. In the 3 years I've been responsible for the newsletter, it has grown from 4 pages to sometimes as many as 10 or 12. It's because people have helped me and not just complained that the newsletter wasn't all that and then some.

 

[mumzie2three]

I've gotta admit that I've read your comments, mumzie2three, as you being a bull in a china shop. I'm not meaning to be disrespectful or make you mad. It's just that from what you are "saying", I have heard your tone to be harsher than what you "said" in your last post. It sounds like mkrop "heard" the same tone.

If I was a bull in a china shop. I would be firing off an email to the chair of the PTO telling how she's needs to get her act together because my DD was given a shoddy yo-yo. Deciding to join the PTO next year so I know more about how it works isn't bullish at all. But I've been warned that they may not listen to me (be all "warm and fuzzy" when it comes to my ideas) because I didn't join in March when one DD transfered there.

You're not disrepectful and I'm not mad. It's very hard to hear 'tone' over the internet but it's odd that the posters that find me 'harsh' or 'critical' are themselves PTO members. PTO members who have pointed out how many parents criticize without helping out. Please try not to paint me with the same brush as your "lazy" parents.

There are several posts where people have shared what has worked in their schools. Very helpful. It's those ideas that I would like to share.
I don't want to abolish the Elf Shoppe, as others have suggested. I'm not criticizing any of the other events that the PTO runs. I just wish we didn't have gifts (that according to some, my DD and her friend may have very thoughtfully picked out), fall apart 2 years in a row. It hurts the kids and with two of them shopping it could easily hurt my wallet too.

Maybe I should've mentioned that DD also received lipgloss and a pair of gloves from her friend. The lipgloss broke and ended up in the trash. The gloves are very soft and DD loves them. The are for show and not for snow, as long as she remembers that they should last. But I wonder how her friend's parents feel about him buying her 3 items. I hope he didn't short anyone that was on his list in favor of DD.

 

[Disney4Drew]

I don't have any children, but when I was in school we had an Elf Shop type thing. I think it is wrong. School is not a mall. If you want to teach children responsible use of money, there are other ways. I think if you want to have one it is important to hold it after hours. There is no jusifiable reason to take away learning time for shopping. When I was little I thought it was cool too, but I remember there were some kids who didn't have enough (or any) money. Obviously there are those who disagree, but sometimes I think people lose sight of the purpose of school--to learn.

Children learn through real life, hands-on experiences. For instance, using money and buying items. They are identifying money, more/less, counting, adding, subtracting, making change. I could go on and on. Learning extends outside of the classroom.

 

[Mkrop]

I've gotta admit that I've read your comments, mumzie2three, as you being a bull in a china shop. I'm not meaning to be disrespectful or make you mad. It's just that from what you are "saying", I have heard your tone to be harsher than what you "said" in your last post. It sounds like mkrop "heard" the same tone.

Please don't be insulted by what mkrop said. Instead, take it to heart. When you go to your first PTO meeting, sit and listen. If you're going to ask questions, make them just be questions at the first meeting and not questions with suggestions, if you KWIM. There are plenty of ways to scale a wall. If you do this with patience and respect of the work that the others have been doing, you'll get further than by trying to bust through the wall.It sounds like you want to scale it by working with the other PTO mothers. That will get you accepted into the group. I am responsible for our PTA's monthly newsletter. Those who complain that the newsletter wasn't printed in time for the start of the month never volunteer to print it themselves. (We only print 29 copies each month. Everyone else accesses it online.) These people are not PTA members, but want to know what is going on in the school (I can't blame them for that) and a few of them have computers and internet service at home but are too lazy to pull it up themselves. I love the people who bring me suggestions for articles or things that they need advertised. I turn off those who just want to idly complain with no helpful alternatives. In the 3 years I've been responsible for the newsletter, it has grown from 4 pages to sometimes as many as 10 or 12. It's because people have helped me and not just complained that the newsletter wasn't all that and then some.

Thanks RUDinsey this is exactly what I meant! and yes OP I did get the vibe that you were going in guns ablaring to change the Elf Shoppe, I mean you did not title your thread with "Help Me Improve Our Elf Shoppe" you started blasting it in post #1. And yes we all vent on message boards but I just wanted you to tread carefully when you first join.

I was not trying to paint you as a lazy parent, I am glad to see you want to get involved. But there are many out there that just want to complain and not put their time and effort into it and that is hard on those that are making it work to hear sometimes. Just like in a job you dont always want to hear the negative when you worked really hard to make the project happen.

Maybe the parents who organize your Elf SHoppe are "hacks" or maybe they are parents who worked really hard to make the best Elf Shoppe they could with the time, money and resources avaliable. So although the concept of buying throughout the year or hitting places like the Dollar Store or CVs etc maybe sound like the best solution unless you yourself are willing to handle it all, it may not happen. Now not to say it is impossible, maybe you are the "fresh blood" the shoppe needs. I would just go in carefully and make sure your ideas can be remotely considered.

I do hope you can make the changes you would like to see happen. I just know from experience that sometimes it is possible and sometimes it is not.

Good luck

 

[chobie]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one seething about the schools selling the kids over-priced, cheaply-made, plastic crap.


Yes, I get the concept of teaching the kids about making purchases etc, but they should not be selling stuff of such poor quality.

 

[donald&daisy]

Children learn through real life, hands-on experiences. For instance, using money and buying items. They are identifying money, more/less, counting, adding, subtracting, making change. I could go on and on. Learning extends outside of the classroom.

I completely agree that learning extends outside the classroom. I think kids should be taught the value of budgeting and using their money wisely (especially before they graduate, lord knows). I still can't believe I have friends who can't balance their checkbook I guess I don't think it is up to the school system to do this by taking away class time for them to shop. I know how proud I was that I got my mom and dad matching plastic picture frames that said "I love my Mommy/Daddy" on them. My problem is doing it during school hours, simply because it can lead to some kids feeling left out, etc. Especially when they are made to go even if they can't participate because of a lack of staff to watch them.

 

[ADisneygirl]

Let me chime in here as an elementary school teacher and say on behalf of my fellow teachers, we HATE the Holiday Shop. They take over an area of the school building that is used for something else and displace the people in there. This year they took over the art room and made them go on the cart travelling to classrooms for art class. It interrupts the day in more ways than one because first they must go preview it, then another day they get an assigned slot of time to go with their class to shop, then they can still be sent down to shop if they come in with money another day! Not to mention that it is filled with junk. The PTO claims that it makes very little money, but the kids need it because many have no way of shopping for their parents and family.

Of course, there are always the kids with no money, who end up crying because they don't get to buy the junk.

We hate it and ask PTO not to have it year after year, but they do anyway. Then we get to field the angry calls from parents asking why we LET their kid buy this or that.

 

[Mkrop]

I completely agree that learning extends outside the classroom. I think kids should be taught the value of budgeting and using their money wisely (especially before they graduate, lord knows). I still can't believe I have friends who can't balance their checkbook I guess I don't think it is up to the school system to do this by taking away class time for them to shop. I know how proud I was that I got my mom and dad matching plastic picture frames that said "I love my Mommy/Daddy" on them. My problem is doing it during school hours, simply because it can lead to some kids feeling left out, etc. Especially when they are made to go even if they can't participate because of a lack of staff to watch them.

But kids being left out of stuff is life IMHO. My dad died when when my brothers were young. Nobody made special exceptions for them at school when they made the craft for Father's Day, should they have been shuffled off to another part of the school while it was being made or should the school have banned the craft all together just bc of them. IMHO and theirs (now that they are grown adults, we have talked about it) it was part of them growing up and learning that everyone is different. Sure they were sad but they learned to cope and understand that life is not the same for every student.

 

[mjkacmom]

Children learn through real life, hands-on experiences. For instance, using money and buying items. They are identifying money, more/less, counting, adding, subtracting, making change. I could go on and on. Learning extends outside of the classroom.

After volunteering, I can tell you, it IS a learning experience. I can't tell you how many children, after asking how much money something cost, told me they couldn't buy it, because they had a $20, and the item cost $3! Also, we live in an area where the average home costs $500,000, and the most expensive item is $5, with plenty in the $1 range - I've never run across a child who opted out due to the expense. Ours takes over the gym for only 1 day, so it's not a huge inconvinence.

 

[donald&daisy]

But kids being left out of stuff is life IMHO. My dad died when when my brothers were young. Nobody made special exceptions for them at school when they made the craft for Father's Day, should they have been shuffled off to another part of the school while it was being made or should the school have banned the craft all together just bc of them. IMHO and theirs (now that they are grown adults, we have talked about it) it was part of them growing up and learning that everyone is different. Sure they were sad but they learned to cope and understand that life is not the same for every student.

Yes, there will always be kids being left out. Either in ways like your case, or b/c they aren't good a sports, etc. This (the Elf Shop type thing) is just one way where I feel that the school doesn't have to or need to put themselves in that position (have it afterhours if your school really wants one). It is important to realize that you don't always get what you want or you might be left out, but I think we all, kids and adults, have PLENTY of opportunities to learn this lesson in other ways.

 

[Mkrop]

After volunteering, I can tell you, it IS a learning experience. I can't tell you how many children, after asking how much money something cost, told me they couldn't buy it, because they had a $20, and the item cost $3! Also, we live in an area where the average home costs $500,000, and the most expensive item is $5, with plenty in the $1 range - I've never run across a child who opted out due to the expense. Ours takes over the gym for only 1 day, so it's not a huge inconvinence.

Yeah I think they learn a lot. I had 4th graders asking me how much they had left to spend. I could have just told them but I made them add up their purchases either in their head or on their shopping sheet and told them to subtract. I certainly saw a Math lesson there

The other day I was in the convience store and the girl behind the counter was complaining that her computer was slow an she didnt know how much to give me in change. Uh what?

So if we can give these kids an opportunity to do it in their head or use pencil and paper instead of relying on technology I am all for it.

 

[Mkrop]

Yes, there will always be kids being left out. Either in ways like your case, or b/c they aren't good a sports, etc. This (the Elf Shop type thing) is just one way where I feel that the school doesn't have to or need to put themselves in that position (have it afterhours if your school really wants one). It is important to realize that you don't always get what you want or you might be left out, but I think we all, kids and adults, have PLENTY of opportunities to learn this lesson in other ways.

We will just have to disagree but that is ok.

But even if it was held after shcool there would be people complaining about that. With some of this stuff it is a no win situation I am finding the more years I put into volunteering at my sons school.

ETA: but also there are many who thought/think the Father's Day craft should go away as well, why would the school even make a craft knowing their kids in this situation, I think this could be applied to Elf Shoppes too. I dont think schools should stop things for a select few. Now if the whole school is opposed to something then it should be discussed

 

[donald&daisy]

We will just have to disagree but that is ok.

But even if it was held after shcool there would be people complaining about that. With some of this stuff it is a no win situation I am finding the more years I put into volunteering at my sons school.

ETA: but also there are many who thought/think the Father's Day craft should go away as well, why would the school even make a craft knowing their kids in this situation, I think this could be applied to Elf Shoppes too. I dont think schools should stop things for a select few. Now if the whole school is opposed to something then it should be discussed

I agree to disagree It is hard to make everyone happy--actually I think sometimes it is impossible. I just hope more good, than bad comes out in the end.

 

[scheddj]

What's funny is that most of the kids probably love this - I know mine do. They get to shop unsupervised by their parents and it gives them a real "grown-up" feeling.

My husband takes my kids out to buy me a nice gift for me and I do the same with them for him. I know when I take them, though I try not to, I always find myself saying "Daddy won't use this" or "This looks cheap" or some other criticism of their taste and I end up steering them toward what I want them to get him.

I guess I like that my kids are able to feel the joy of giving a gift all on their own and if it falls apart - I can glue it back together and smile instead of telling them how crappy it is and that they didn't get their full dollars worth.

I know when I was young my parents tried to teach me that it's not the gift itself but the thought that counts.

 

[C.Ann]

For the most part, I think it's a good idea - and fun for the kids - but on the other hand, they should not be selling "junk".. The companies and their goods should be pre-screened by the school prior to holding these sales..

 

[sha_lyn]

When DS was in K I volunteered to help with the Santa Shop.
It was a bunch of cheap junk IMHO, and while it was being marketed to the parents as a way for the kids to shop for presents for their parents, I would say 75% of the stuff was cheap toys. Kids would come in with $20, buy a cheap $1-2 item for the adult(s) on their list, and spend the rest of the money on toys. We were told the list was only a "suggestion" and couldn't limit the kids to buying for people on their list.
However the biggest grip I had was actually due to a parent and their "donation". The first morning someone brings in the cute stand full of homemade Xmas chocolates on lollipop sticks. Says another mother made them for the shop. She set the stand on the table and left without another word.
So those of us there (including the one running the shop fundraiser) look at them and decide to price the small ones for something like 50cents and the large ones for $1 (don't remember exactly it's been about 14 yrs). Well of course they sold out in no time, and just about every kids that bought one ate it right on the spot.
Well fast forward to a couple of days later when the mother who made them shows up to collect her $$. According to her they were suppose to sell for something like $3&$5 and she was to get most of the $$ back. I wasn't there when she came in, but was there later when a friend of hers was volunteering at the same time I was. Well you would have thought that the PTA had robbed the woman at gunpoint or something by the way the friend kept going on and on about it. I know the woman went to the PTA president and the principal of the school, but I have no idea what the outcome was.
Had she collected the $$ she was demanding, it would have pretty much wiped out all the profit for the fundraiser.

 

[minniecarousel]

So, I guess the consensus is - y'all don't like the stuff they sell at Oriental Trading Company? 'cause unless they're going store-to-store for these things, they're ordering from them - or a company like them. And yes, it's a lot of junk. But I have precious "#1 Mom" mugs and keychains from my sons - and they're in their 20's now.