Dad upset about TSA patdown

[tzolkin]

JMO, 2 minutes of repeatedly sliding hands over a child is very different than a reasonably brief straightforward patdown.

Sliding their hands over the body is how they check to make sure there is nothing hidden under the clothing. To me, this is a straightforward patdown.

And, they claim that she went "over and over and over" areas of her body in the interview, but it is clear in the video that no area was repeatedly patted down. Just once over for each body part.


It also seems the father was arguing before he turned on the camera, so that plus the fact that they knew they were being recorded may have ensured that they felt they needed to do a thorough "by-the-book" patdown even though it was a child. Maybe if the agent just patted the kid briefly and sent them on their way the parents would have sent the video to the press complaining about how lax the security procedures are at this particular airport.

 

[aprilchem]

It used to be TSA protocol to subject anyone wearing a long skirt to a pat-down - because of my religious beliefs I always wear skirts almost to the floor and for a while I got patted down every single time I flew. That hasn't happened for a while, but generally I've been flying either at large airports with full body scanners or dinky airports out of the country where security is not so good. My guess is that there wasn't a full-body scanner available and the TSA was adhering to this protocol.

And FTR, I never minded the pat-downs. It was always a woman and they were always nice. I'm super modest and they didn't upset me at all. My 6 year old daughter is also a modest dresser and so far she has not been subjected to a pat down, but I always warn her that she might be.

 

[DVC-Don]

I see nothing wrong with what I saw.

 

[mom2rtk]

Sliding their hands over the body is how they check to make sure there is nothing hidden under the clothing. To me, this is a straightforward patdown.

And, they claim that she went "over and over and over" areas of her body in the interview, but it is clear in the video that no area was repeatedly patted down. Just once over for each body part.


It also seems the father was arguing before he turned on the camera, so that plus the fact that they knew they were being recorded may have ensured that they felt they needed to do a thorough "by-the-book" patdown even though it was a child. Maybe if the agent just patted the kid briefly and sent them on their way the parents would have sent the video to the press complaining about how lax the security procedures are at this particular airport.

I guess I just don't see how it can take 2 full minutes to pat down each area of the body one time.

I agree though that it's likely the father was argumentative.

 

[elphaba91]

I don't see anything wrong with it. The girl had extra liquids in her bag, a (false) positive reading for explosives and her dad was strongly opposed to her being patted down - I would be pretty horrified if that didn't qualify her for extra screening! I think the clothes she was wearing meant they had to focus more on some areas that the father was pretty disgusted by - the insides of her legs (due to her long skirt) and her chest area (due to the pockets on her shirt).

This reminds me of a funny story I heard the other day though. At the major sporting arena here they have introduced new security measures where every patron is patted down. On the first day a 4 year old boy got ahead of his parents as they were having their bags checked. The burly security guard who was meant to pat him down crouched down to his level and held out his arms to show the position he had to hold. The little boy however, interpreted this action differently and proceeded to give the security guard a big hug! I gather this ended up happening 3 or 4 times! What a cutie!

 

[LetsTalkWDW]

I think there may have been two contributing factors to the unusual length of the pat down.
First, the false positive for explosive materials might lead to a more thorough pat down than an otherwise random screening (Note: I didn't see any mention of a false positive in the video but if that were the case then I could understand)
Second, her clothing may have been seen as more conducive to hiding something.

The fathers objections may have also played a factor - "methinks thou doth protest too much"

In either case, I think the TSA was not out of line.

 

[Bec3b1g]

It used to be TSA protocol to subject anyone wearing a long skirt to a pat-down - because of my religious beliefs I always wear skirts almost to the floor and for a while I got patted down every single time I flew. That hasn't happened for a while, but generally I've been flying either at large airports with full body scanners or dinky airports out of the country where security is not so good. My guess is that there wasn't a full-body scanner available and the TSA was adhering to this protocol.

And FTR, I never minded the pat-downs. It was always a woman and they were always nice. I'm super modest and they didn't upset me at all. My 6 year old daughter is also a modest dresser and so far she has not been subjected to a pat down, but I always warn her that she might be.

I was thinking it had to be about the skirt.

I've had 2 kids get flagged for additional screening in the last week on separate flights. One had a mini knife on his keys and the other had a pocket knife in his bag that went through the scanner.

It's TSA's job to screen every passenger. This 2 minute pat down doesn't bother me. The fact that the dad had a problem with it beforehand and was taping the whole thing tells me that it didn't matter how it was handled, it was going to end up on social media.

 

[smokeyblue]

I think subjecting a child to tv interviews and sharing this video with the world is far worse than a security screening required for travel. I also think the amount of time the screening actually took is grossly exaggerated.

 

[tzolkin]

I guess I just don't see how it can take 2 full minutes to pat down each area of the body one time.
.

A previous poster gave a link to an article that contains the entire video:
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/jan/04/tsa-10-year-old-girl/

The pat down is 1:49 (before that is the dad arguing and the end is the girl talking to the TSA agent and smiling).

You can watch it and see that she just goes over each area one time. She does talk to the girl throughout and asks her to change position, so maybe that adds the extra time. (People may also underestimate the time it normally takes since most are not using a stopwatch or video to time a screening.) It really doesn't seem too long or intrusive to me, but certainly everyone's opinion will differ.

This seems to be a normal screening to me. If it was any shorter/less thorough and being conducted on an adult, I think most people would wonder "why bother" since the person could be hiding something that was overlooked with a few quick pats.

 

[leebee]

I suspect both the juice pouch and the flowing, long skirt triggered the pat-down, but I wonder what else was in the carry-on that might have flagged the bag search.

You'd be surprised at the "normal" things that flag a bag search. I had my carry-on pulled and wiped once. My travel alarm was in it, and apparently there's something in the alarm that is detected as "explosive." The TSA acknowledged that it was my alarm, and that it happens frequently. However, procedure is procedure. They had to search me, my bag, and wipe everything in my bag. My DH, with his bag, joined me while waiting. The TSA agent asked, "Did you pack that bag, too, because if you did, we will need to wipe it and search him, also." Nope, uh-uh, no way did I touch that bag (not true... I packed DH's bag myself, but I knew they were offering me a 'way out' and I took it.

A friend's young son has one of those books where you push the symbol that matches the symbol in the story and it'll make the noise that correlates with the symbol. That was flagged, and everything of the kid's (backpack, stroller, diaper bag) had to be wiped as well as mom's carryon. It's what we do in the name of security these days.

(IMO it's all theater, but it's what the government mandates, so we follow the rules.)

 

[mom2rtk]

I suspect both the juice pouch and the flowing, long skirt triggered the pat-down, but I wonder what else was in the carry-on that might have flagged the bag search.

You'd be surprised at the "normal" things that flag a bag search. I had my carry-on pulled and wiped once. My travel alarm was in it, and apparently there's something in the alarm that is detected as "explosive." The TSA acknowledged that it was my alarm, and that it happens frequently. However, procedure is procedure. They had to search me, my bag, and wipe everything in my bag. My DH, with his bag, joined me while waiting. The TSA agent asked, "Did you pack that bag, too, because if you did, we will need to wipe it and search him, also." Nope, uh-uh, no way did I touch that bag (not true... I packed DH's bag myself, but I knew they were offering me a 'way out' and I took it.

A friend's young son has one of those books where you push the symbol that matches the symbol in the story and it'll make the noise that correlates with the symbol. That was flagged, and everything of the kid's (backpack, stroller, diaper bag) had to be wiped as well as mom's carryon. It's what we do in the name of security these days.

(IMO it's all theater, but it's what the government mandates, so we follow the rules.)

Wait, I thought it was wrong to assume a clock might be an explosive device. I get so confused sometimes.

I carry a lot of camera gear in my carry-on. Full frame body, lots of lenses, batteries, filters, sometimes a tripod. I'm amazed every single time that thing sails through with no delays.

 

[mom2rtk]

A previous poster gave a link to an article that contains the entire video:
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/jan/04/tsa-10-year-old-girl/

The pat down is 1:49 (before that is the dad arguing and the end is the girl talking to the TSA agent and smiling).

You can watch it and see that she just goes over each area one time. She does talk to the girl throughout and asks her to change position, so maybe that adds the extra time. (People may also underestimate the time it normally takes since most are not using a stopwatch or video to time a screening.) It really doesn't seem too long or intrusive to me, but certainly everyone's opinion will differ.

This seems to be a normal screening to me. If it was any shorter/less thorough and being conducted on an adult, I think most people would wonder "why bother" since the person could be hiding something that was overlooked with a few quick pats.

I watched it. I still think it was a little too long and involved. And I still think the dad overreacted.

 

[tzolkin]

I think there may have been two contributing factors to the unusual length of the pat down.
First, the false positive for explosive materials might lead to a more thorough pat down than an otherwise random screening (Note: I didn't see any mention of a false positive in the video but if that were the case then I could understand)
Second, her clothing may have been seen as more conducive to hiding something.

The fathers objections may have also played a factor - "methinks thou doth protest too much"

In either case, I think the TSA was not out of line.

In the video the dad says that their machine is broken (i.e. wrong) and that they should "swab it on another machine". The agent also said that when the alarm goes off they are required to do a screening of the passenger.

Do they "swab" for anything other than explosives? If not, it's safe to assume that's the false positive they are referring to and that was the reason she was flagged for a patdown.

 

[Jennasis]

Much ado about nothing.

 

[mom2rtk]

Even if the terrorists never kill another American, they have won.

 

[dclpluto]

I saw the video on the news and I still cant tell looking at this, but is this a male TSA agent? I thought (and I could be wrong) that if the person is female, the TSA conducting the patdown is female as well. I was patted down once, and they called over the female agent to do it.

You can clearly see it's a female tsa agent

 

[xlxo]

Thoughts...

• I'm surprised security allowed the process to be videoed, I would assume they wanted the camera turned off.
• the video mentioned something beeped (metal buttons on her clothes?) and they needed a detail examination. Sometimes I get the detailed random search. Personally, I wear steeltoes and I volunteer to remove my shoes prior to entering scanners to avoid the secondary detailed search.
• I love my cameras, but I understand some may feel threatened by them. When a family member uses a camera on security, it may be a form of intimidation.... which may encourage a necessary detailed search.
• it was a female doing the search, I see no problems. There was also no escalation to cavity search in the video.
• TSA needs to be through to ensure safety for everyone. Trouble makers are getting smarter.... TSA needs to be smart too.

 

[tzolkin]

I watched it. I still think it was a little too long and involved. And I still think the dad overreacted.

That's fine. I completely understand that everyone has different opinions about that's appropriate or not.

In your previous post you said...

I just don't see how it can take 2 full minutes to pat down each area of the body one time.

So that made me assume you had not watched the video.

Certainly one could argue that she could have completed the exam faster, but I think it was an exaggeration of the family to claim that the agent was going "over and over and over" the same spots when the video clearly shows that she only went over each area once. Reading the articles made it seem much more invasive than the video shows.

 

[brockash]

Everyone is hung up on the juice box. People do make mistakes, especially at this age when kids are starting to do their own packing. We got "caught" with a bottle of Gatorade in my daughter's backpack on the way back from Orlando when she was about this age. We both knew the rules, but she had it earlier in the day and just forgot it was in there.

ITA! I can't even tell you how many times I've left a bottle of water in my purse (and I'm the responsible one in my family lol), so I'm sure a kid having a juice in their bag is not that crazy. It's never been a big deal, but I def. don't think the parents are irresponsible parents because the girl had a juice in her bag.

 

[dclpluto]

terrorist know that kids are usually not put in the same security procedures as adults. They can wear shoes no going through the see through X-ray thing. If I was them the next attack I will be having young kids do it.