Cut back in hours true reflection of attendance?

[BonnieA]

Do you think the hours being cut really mean that Disney expects fewer guests? Or is it just to save their own costs even though it will pack large crowds into fewer hours? Do you understand what I mean ?

 

[DancingBear]

Based on newspaper reports and the limited info Disney makes public such as in their public company reporting, it appears that the drop in attendance after 9/11 was very real.

Attendance has generally been improving, and actually park hours when they are eventually announced and firmed up are not significantly less than before. Disney is not announcing hours as far in advance, and is doing more tweaking in response to projected attendance and booking levels.

With early entry back, we had no problems at all with the hours in our December trip, effectively weren't any different than on prior trips.

 

[TreeOfLife]

Disney hasn't been doing so well not only after 9/11, but financially, beforehand too. Their shares went from a sound investment to peanuts. In my opinion, the attack is not to blame for it in its entirety, but poor decisions made by the current management with regards to different areas.

Park hours generally reflect attendance, even when it varies with the seasons.

 

[BonnieA]

So if that is the case, then I should expect crowds similar to those when I went in November when the hours were almost the same. Meaning that those school breaks will not cause the parks to become crowded. Am I being reasonable to assume that based on these operating hours?

 

[kilee]

I think in general it is still going to be crowded, or have that crowded feel. Just not the near sell out or close the gates at noon type of crowded. I definetly don't think you are going to get an off season sensation over the next 8 weeks. It just isn't going to be the normal flow Disney see's w/ spring breaks and Easter.

 

[kellymonaghan]

The Orlando Sentinel had an article recently quoting Eisner himself to the effect that WDW attendance really took a hit after the recent Orange Alert.

 

[raidermatt]

Do you think the hours being cut really mean that Disney expects fewer guests? Or is it just to save their own costs even though it will pack large crowds into fewer hours?

How about yes and yes.

There's no doubt attendance took a hit post 9/11, and there's no reason to doubt things are getting tight again, at least to a certain extent.

But if you want to know if cutting costs regardless of attendance is a part of the equation, you have to look at what they were doing even in good years. Hours have been on the decline since well before the recession hit. 9/11 caused the cuts to accelerate, but it did not start the trend.

Some people believe that the cuts themselves have a negative impact on attendance, particularly in the long run.

 

[MulanMom]

Originally posted by raidermatt
[BSome people believe that the cuts themselves have a negative impact on attendance, particularly in the long run. [/B]

I'm one of those people!!! We were planning a trip for Thanksgiving/first week of December, but I'm so angry about these recent cutbacks, I'm thinking of cancelling all together. Consider our track record:

Trip late Sept/early Oct. 2001, only a few weeks after 9/11. We could have cancelled and we didn't, figuring we'd be loyal Disney customers. We are also DVC. Drastic reductions in room rates or airline fares didn't draw us. In fact, we got no reductions in anything, yet we, understandably, got reduced hours, lots of rehab at the VWL. Though weekday crowds were slight, weekend crowds were tremendous as they mainly consisted of locals showing support for WDW and enjoying the parks without a lot of us tourists.

Trip midMarch 2002 - okay park hours. We're still being told there's a downturn in attendance. However, MK is so packed, it's just not enjoyable. Again, we stay DVC, so we haven't been drawn by reduced resort rates or special deals. Without EE, trying to do MK with a toddler and preschooler is a nightmare.

So we come to late March/early April 2003. We book a trip again through DVC thinking that by attending during spring break, which is usually on-season for WDW and usually busy between President's Day and Easter, we'll benefit from longer hours. After we're locked into our reservations, hours are changed to something resembling extreme off-season. Yet, no reduction in my DVC points or admission costs.

I'm willing to give WDW the benefit of the doubt, but if it's crowded, I'm going have to think really hard about how I'm supporting a corporation that's flinging aside its concern for the guest experience and becoming more obvious in its greed.

 

[eeyore0062]

MulanMom, please don't cancel! It is people who get all up in arms about perceived cutbacks or other times when things didn't got just as planned that cause some of the cutbacks in the first place.

If the parks are empty, then it is poor business to run at 100%--- the money for the overhead just isn't there... I think almost anyone can accept that. The only way to keep the cutbacks from occuring is to go to WDW as planned. It is a vicious circle... cutbacks- poor attendance-cutbacks-poor attendance--- only when everyone starts going back as planned will this cycle stop.

 

[laf]

But it sounds like the parks, especially MK, ARE experiencing the increasing attendance typical for spring break! Crowds will be at nightmare levels with only 1 water park, 6 pm EPCOT FW closing, early weekend MK closings, all the rehabs, etc.

We're headed down in 10 days, and if my air tickets weren't nonrefundable, I would be cancelling our trip and going another time. We were really looking forward to Spectromagic on the 21st (cancelled), Blizzard Beach (delayed opening), H & V character meal (discontinued), etc, etc

We are paying peak season rates at the GF too. I'd like to see some peak season hours, service and attractions to justify that cost. Just hope they don't cancel any more e-nights!

Yes, I know we'll find lots to do, and will find our bit of magic, but it is still quite frustrating. WDW is just too expensive a vacation to support these continuous changes and cutbacks. You can't keep pinching pennies without eventually pinching the consumer...and the consumer will eventually pinch back.

 

[JJS2K3]

It is people who get all up in arms about perceived cutbacks or other times when things didn't got just as planned that cause some of the cutbacks in the first place.

First, the cutbacks are not perceived, they are actual cutbacks.
The park hours are cut, even in periods that the parks are full, as posted above; food portions are being made smaller while the price remains the same or goes up; extended rehabs; attractions being closed;nitpicking little things @ the resorts - these are all actual cuts.

Second, I think you have the second part backwards (expecting people to spend a whole lot of money to go somewhere where there are cuts in hours and services - just so there won't be more cuts in hours and services? I don't get that.). It does point out the peril in what is happening. It's a bad business spiral - cut back the product, less people come; raise the prices, even less people come; cut back the product.....It just doesn't work.

Disney, with so many hard core loyalists may be able to survive it longer than others but not forever. At the same time Disney's attendance is down, USO/IOA is up. The folks who are not hard core are deciding the 'fairy tales and pixie dust' aren't making up for the cuts so they're going elsewhere.

Anyway, we're going in May. We haven't been there in 15 years so we won't notice any cuts, from first hand experience anyway. We're also staying for 12 days so the park hours won't be an issue for us. A lot of people can't say the same and they're saying it with their wallet.

 

[DancingBear]

So, do you believe that WDW announced hours, then, although bookings and attendance were strong, then cut back on the hours? I give WDW a little more credit than that. Ultimately, they want their guests to have an overall positive experience, if only for business reasons. Plus, people in the parks buy concessions and merchandise. The marginal cost of keeping the parks open longer is mostly labor, and Disney's system of temporary and part-time employment would allow them to respond.

Of course, cutting back the hours will mean crowds during the open hours are larger than they would otherwise be; however, that doesn't necessarily mean they are unmanageable.

Remember---Easter comes late this year, so spring break crowds are being more evenly spread throughout March (when college breaks usually happen) and April (I think most public school breaks happen the week before or after Easter).

Yes, MK used to stay open longer. But then there weren't four parks open (and Studios and AK were much smaller when first opened), and there was no Fastpass. Also, EE is back!

 

[cindyfan]

We're headed down in 10 days, and if my air tickets weren't nonrefundable, I would be cancelling our trip and going another time. We were really looking forward to Spectromagic on the 21st (cancelled), Blizzard Beach (delayed opening), H & V character meal (discontinued), etc, etc
We are paying peak season rates at the GF too. I'd like to see some peak season hours, service and attractions to justify that cost. Just hope they don't cancel any more e-nights!

DITTO!!!!!!!!
We went from having 6 chances of seeing the fireworks down to only ONE chance to see it!!!!! And only ONE chance to see Spectro!!!!
AND .....they cancelled our PS for H & V!!!!
AND......our later PS at MK !!!

Yes, MK used to stay open longer. But then there weren't four parks open (and Studios and AK were much smaller when first opened),

Just look at last years hours compared to this year!!!!!!!!
Take a look at Easter Week!!!! It is CRAZY!!!
I agree it won't be as crowded as last year since Easter was March 31st last year.......
BUT....... for MK to close at 10pm on Wed., at 7pm on Friday and 8pm on Saturday the week after. I know it is Grad Nights....but they don't show up til really LATE!!!

 

[eeyore0062]

If attendence warrents it, they will extend hours at that time... that is what they have been doing... posting shorter hours, then extending as needed.

As Dancing Bear said...Easter does come late, so the crowds are more evenly spread. We will be down the end of March. Am I going to complain because we "might" not get to see certain things. No... I understand that times are hard and everyone, including Disney must cut back, and there is plenty to do and see that will make it worth my time and money. If that is a problem to others, go another time. However, do remember, the less crowded it is, the more cutbacks you will experience over a more extended time!

 

[CarolA]

Folks for the parks to really make money they need to be crowded. I would say that Disney is a lot like retail. The big profit comes in June, July, August and Christmas when the place is stuffed! While I would like the long hours just so the lines won't be long, I just don't think financially they can afford to do it. This is a very high cost business.

 

[kilee]

We were there back at the first week of February- supposed value season. DH and I both thought that MK was just as or more crowded then when we went the week after April last year. We were looking into a last minute trip this March for a week. I could not get a room at CBR or CS for the time frame I was looking (checkin on 3/21). They were completely booked. We have decided to put this off until the last week in April.

I personally don't mind the cut in hours because we never stay at the parks for 13 hours. Supposedly other people are stating that MK will close at 10 & 11 rather than midnight. How many people with young kids are really going to stay in the parks until midnight.

Unfortunately the economy is bad all around us. I know people who have worked at their job for 10 and 15 years, who are now permanently laid off. They are being forced into jobs and having to start back at the bottom. Large corporations are going under left and right. If they aren't going to get near sell-out crowds it isn't cost effective for them to stay open. A cruise ship wouldn't sail with only 25% of their guest. Disney even at cut hours is still disney, relax and enjoy!

 

[buzz2400]

for anyone who is going in March and is having second thoughts. Most airlines are allowing you to change your ticket to another date (without penalties) because of the threat of war. Call your airline or check their website.

But with regards to the cutbacks. I think it is terrible. We went last year when they did not have EE (and of course shorter hours) and we hated it. We were forced to get there when they opened and stay at the one park all day until closing. Time was too precious to park hop. Anyway we booked again for this July but if they take away EE, I will be cancelling WDW. There is plenty to do and see in Orlando and I think WDW is starting to feel the effects of this. Don't get me wrong. I love Disney but I also love SeaWorld and Universal and if other places are going to give me more for my money I will go there.

 

[raidermatt]

If attendence warrents it, they will extend hours at that time... that is what they have been doing... posting shorter hours, then extending as needed.

Really, what they have been doing is posting shorter hours than the year before, then add a PORTION of those cut hours back. The end result has still been shorter hours.

This time, they posted the hours, then cut them. What they had posted originally was already a decrease, then they cut them further.

It is people who get all up in arms about perceived cutbacks or other times when things didn't got just as planned that cause some of the cutbacks in the first place.

As JJS2K3 said, the perception in this case is very much reality. These cutbacks are very real. Further, customers do not cause cutbacks, they respond to them. Each potential guest has to make the best choice for their family when deciding how to spend their money. If Disney is going to offer less, the simple fact is some potential guests will choose to go elsewhere.

If Disney chooses to respond with further cuts, rather than find other more creative ways to attract guests, more guests will decide not to go. Its a vicious cycle that only Disney can stop.

They were cutting before the economy ever turned south, so that should clue us in on what their strategy is.

 

[DancingBear]

Originally posted by buzz2400
There is plenty to do and see in Orlando and I think WDW is starting to feel the effects of this. Don't get me wrong. I love Disney but I also love SeaWorld and Universal and if other places are going to give me more for my money I will go there.

None of Sea World, IOA or Universal are open on any days in March or April at 8 a.m., as the EE parks will be at WDW. None of those parks are open until 11 p.m., as MK will be on several nights during the weeks before and after Easter Sunday.

Except for April 25 and 26, which I understand are Grad Nights (an annual event, blame the late Easter this year for the overlap; and BTW April 24 MK is open until 11) I don't see any major hours difference.

 

[JJS2K3]

EE is a limited program for a limited amount of people - resort guests. And I'm sure you won't argue that the EE hour isn't built into the price.

To me, it's like saying that E-Nights is a perk - people are playing $12 for what they received free a few years back.

And it's not all about the hours. Do a search on "Chicken Fingers"


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