Curious how FP+ has changed your touring style, if at all?

[cakebaker]

As I'm reading through this it appears the end goal of the MDE experience is working. Iger said it was about locking people's time into Disney but it was implied that this would be because the experience is improved. What I'm seeing even in the people who like it is that the process is so inefficient and thrown so many other things out of whack that the lock in is because it now takes you two days to do something you could do in one day before.

Not at all true for us. Under the old system we had to visit each park during the morning whether we wanted to or not in order to ride headliners.

FP+ has not forced us into longer trips at all- it's allowed us to get the rides in at each park when it fits our schedule and preferences rather than when FP availability demanded it.

We've done a 3 day trip, a 4 day trip and this last trip that was 8 days and all trips were enhanced by FP+. It was actually much more helpful on the shorter trips when time was not a luxury we enjoyed.

But I won't try and convince you it works better for you if you don't try and convince me it doesn't work better for us.

 

[cakebaker]

I wouldn't be so sure ToT was "out". This was one of many attractions that they would often not even open for FP- on many days because the line just never got that bad. It had many times that it was simply a walk on attraction back in the old days.

I was there, I made the trips and I know when I walked up to get a FP whether or not it was out. After 4-5 it almost always was. It's not a matter of guessing - this was my experience over years of trips.

I never once visited when fp's were not being issued- ever.

 

[wisblue]

As I'm reading through this it appears the end goal of the MDE experience is working. Iger said it was about locking people's time into Disney but it was implied that this would be because the experience is improved. What I'm seeing even in the people who like it is that the process is so inefficient and thrown so many other things out of whack that the lock in is because it now takes you two days to do something you could do in one day before.

This is like the anti Carosel of Progress. We can get from Test Track to Soarin' in only two days!

You are misreading what at least some of the people who like FP+ are saying.

We are now able to do MORE in a day because we are able to do more in the evening that we did before. From our perspective and with how we tour the parks FP+ has not thrown anything out of whack, but has opened up opportunities that we didn't have before.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Not at all true for us. Under the old system we had to visit each park during the morning whether we wanted to or not in order to ride headliners.

FP+ has not forced us into longer trips at all- it's allowed us to get the rides in at each park when it fits our schedule and preferences rather than when FP availability demanded it.

We've done a 3 day trip, a 4 day trip and this last trip that was 8 days and all trips were enhanced by FP+. It was actually much more helpful on the shorter trips when time was not a luxury we enjoyed.

But I won't try and convince you it works better for you if you don't try and convince me it doesn't work better for us.

Wouldn't dare because I know for some people walking in and riding Soarin' them walking out is a great trip.

What I was referring to was the people who were noting that they were going to EPCOT twice once to ride Soarin and another to ride TT.

 

[cakebaker]

Wouldn't dare because I know for some people walking in and riding Soarin' them walking out is a great trip.

What I was referring to was the people who were noting that they were going to EPCOT twice once to ride Soarin and another to ride TT.

We certainly didn't like it when that's what we had to do under the old system to get a FP for Soarin. Glad we don't have to anymore.

We go to Eocot multiple times during our trip. While that does allow us to get both done, that's not why we go. One can easily do both with no waiting without going twice. I wouldn't recommend that as a strategy.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

How did that happen if you were always there at rope drop? Both of those rides always had FPs available until at least noon.



That's the only way it works for us. We won't ever get in a line over 20 minutes. FP Test Track and rope drop Soarin' or vice versa is the only way for us to ride both in one day. Recent reports are showing that TT and Soarin' standby are already 60 minutes by 9:30am. Pre-FP+ we'd get multiple rides on either one before 10am easily. Not anymore. Now we actually plan more than 1 Epcot day to FP each one.

I may have already said this, but we basically stopped going on Soarin' as our solution.

We also noticed the SR lines are much more popular than they once were.

It sounds to me like Kaybird's approach has always been to hop to HS AFTER a morning in Epcot.

 

[WillAustin]

One can easily do both with no waiting without going twice.

How do you do that for Soarin' and Test Track, and when? If you're at the front at rope drop you could get on Soarin' immediately, but you'd have to stay very near the front of the masses heading to the ride. Yesterday the wait for Soarin' was already at 20 minutes by 8:15 on an EMH day and at 50 minutes by 8:40. The day before, non-EMH, it was at 40 minutes by 9:10.

 

[cakebaker]

How do you do that for Soarin' and Test Track, and when? If you're at the front at rope drop you could get on Soarin' immediately, but you'd have to stay very near the front of the masses heading to the ride. Yesterday the wait for Soarin' was already at 20 minutes by 8:15 on an EMH day and at 50 minutes by 8:40. The day before, non-EMH, it was at 40 minutes by 9:10.

I wouldn't choose to go to any park that had an Emh unless I could use the emh. That's a terrible choice.

But yes, FP + one, rope drop the other.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

I agree that there is no way to ride Soarin' or TSM multiple times now or ever. Someone claims that they can? I'd like to know how.

Sure there is, you are forgetting the Standby line. Sometimes it isn't very long for TSMM. The POSTED wait would say 50min, but the ACTUAL wait was often far less. We rarely ride/rode it more than 2 times/day, but we could often easily manage 2 rides.

With S', the FP line is ALWAYS at least 40min wait (unless you are 1st at RD!), still, we often went to WDW with extended family, so we often used a child swap pass, so SOME of our party would get two rides. Mind, I much prefer no child swap, as even w/FP and Child Swap, we'd spend 90min for S'. Usually the babysitters ate and rode Living w/Land LOTS of times! I've been on THAT ride more than any other at WDW!

Mind, overall, trying to get around WDW with 9people is VERY slow! Someone is always hungry, tired, or need a restroom. Back to back rides with child swap was the only small grace. As I said earlier, ADR's are a nightmare! Just the arrival is herding cats. Then the table is never ready on time! ARGH!

 

[itchin2go]

We go to Eocot multiple times during our trip. While that does allow us to get both done, that's not why we go. One can easily do both with no waiting without going twice. I wouldn't recommend that as a strategy.

But yes, FP + one, rope drop the other.

All due respect, we did this last year - twice - and definitely had to wait in the standby line - even at rope drop. Waits may be minimal compared to the rest of the day, but it was still at least 20-30 minutes.

 

[wisblue]

All due respect, we did this last year - twice - and definitely had to wait in the standby line - even at rope drop. Waits may be minimal compared to the rest of the day, but it was still at least 20-30 minutes.

I guess that depends on how close you are to the front when the park opens. The first couple hundred people to get to either TT or Soarin aren't going to be waiting 20-30 minutes, regardless of what the posted wait time says. More than once in the last year and a half we have gone right to Soarin and been in one of the first 2 or 3 cycles, then walked over to TT and ridden single rider with virtually no wait, arriving about 20-30 minutes after opening, thereby doing both in about 40 minutes or less without using a FP. We can then go to MS where there is still virtually no wait.

If we weren't willing to do single rider at TT, we could have had a FP for it and done both with minimal waits.

When you count the standby waits at those attractions you really should only be counting how long it takes to get to the merge point, not how long it takes to get on a ride vehicle. Whether you have a FP or not, at TT you have to wait to get into a design room, and then wait a little longer in the boarding area to get assigned to and board a car. At Soarin you have to wait to get put into the preshow cages and then wait to get placed in a vehicle.

 

[itchin2go]

I guess that depends on how close you are to the front when the park opens. The first couple hundred people to get to either TT or Soarin aren't going to be waiting 20-30 minutes, regardless of what the posted wait time says. More than once in the last year and a half we have gone right to Soarin and been in one of the first 2 or 3 cycles, then walked over to TT and ridden single rider with virtually no wait, arriving about 20-30 minutes after opening, thereby doing both in about 40 minutes or less without using a FP. We can then go to MS where there is still virtually no wait.

If we weren't willing to do single rider at TT, we could have had a FP for it and done both with minimal waits.

When you count the standby waits at those attractions you really should only be counting how long it takes to get to the merge point, not how long it takes to get on a ride vehicle. Whether you have a FP or not, at TT you have to wait to get into a design room, and then wait a little longer in the boarding area to get assigned to and board a car. At Soarin you have to wait to get put into the preshow cages and then wait to get placed in a vehicle.

My quibble was with the phrase "no waiting". I worry that when you tell people you can do both with "no waiting", they may take you at your word and expect this on their trip.

I agree with you - waits are minimal at rope drop compared to later in the day - even just an hour later.

 

[cakebaker]

All due respect, we did this last year - twice - and definitely had to wait in the standby line - even at rope drop. Waits may be minimal compared to the rest of the day, but it was still at least 20-30 minutes.

First , I wouldn't consider 20 minutes excessive. I would've never pulled a FP
Soarin with such a short wait.

But yes, the further back you are at rope drop, the longer the wait. Unless there's a line before opening, there's a significant number of people who ride with no wait- but I should've said little or no wait. I consider 20 minutes little...and it sure beats the 60-70 minute waits we faced in the evenings when we had no FP and no chance of getting one.

As I've said before, the new system doesn't work to everyone's liking just as the old one didn't.

 

[itchin2go]

First , I wouldn't consider 20 minutes excessive. I would've never pulled a FP
Soarin with such a short wait.

But yes, the further back you are at rope drop, the longer the wait. Unless there's a line before opening, there's a significant number of people who ride with no wait- but I should've said little or no wait. I consider 20 minutes little...and it sure beats the 60-70 minute waits we faced in the evenings when we had no FP and no chance of getting one.

As I've said before, the new system doesn't work to everyone's liking just as the old one didn't.

I didn't say it was excessive. I said it was not "no waiting".

 

[maclondon]

I've only been with FP+ it was awesome.
I changed FP's pretty much every day - there was little issue doing so - theres a handful of attractions that are unavailable
yes you wont get a 7DMT fp on the day but everything else you can.

I found no problems getting 4th 5th etc FP+ if you book yours for 11-1pm
again it may not be the headliners - but you pre book those - and i had no problems at 30 days either
A&E being an exception - but i had zero interest in that.

soarin' queue's baffle me - its the most overratted and dated thing - if it was at magic kingdom it would be 30 mins tops.

 

[cakebaker]

I didn't say it was excessive. I said it was not "no waiting".

As I said, I have no problem changing my statement to little or no wait-

But I stand by my comment that it can be done with no wait- because it can. People do it every day. Be at Epcot before opening, fairly close to the front and move purposefully to the attraction - you should be able to ride it with no more wait than it takes to walk the queue and at the least , your wait should be minimal.

 

[wisblue]

My quibble was with the phrase "no waiting". I worry that when you tell people you can do both with "no waiting", they may take you at your word and expect this on their trip.

I agree with you - waits are minimal at rope drop compared to later in the day - even just an hour later.

Got it.

My quibble was with the phrase "at least 20-30 minutes" because that is not literally true either.

If we can go to Soarin and walk nonstop past the merge point and into the line in the hall waiting to be placed in a boarding cage (which we have done several times) I consider that to be "no waiting" because that's the fastest it's ever going to be, even with a FP.

 

[itchin2go]

Got it.

My quibble was with the phrase "at least 20-30 minutes" because that is not literally true either.

If we can go to Soarin and walk nonstop past the merge point and into the line in the hall waiting to be placed in a boarding cage (which we have done several times) I consider that to be "no waiting" because that's the fastest it's ever going to be, even with a FP.

Yeah, I agree that if you're WAY up front and/or aggressive about getting there fast, the line is going to be less than if you are merely in the pack and/or not aggressive.

But this is circular. The point was, under old FP, we didn't need to be aggressive or at the front of the pack or wait 30 minutes for either Soarin or Test Track. I know, I know ... crying over spilled milk. It's done and I am coping quite well with the "new normal". But if we're talking about what's changed, well - THAT has changed. I said upthread that FP+ may have solved some problems, but it created others. This is one of them.

And the truth is, it's not THAT big of a deal. But I feel a little responsibility to at least try to paint an accurate picture. I guess it goes back to my personality. I would rather expect a 30 minute wait, and then be pleasantly surprised, than to expect NO wait, and have to wait 30 minutes. And I should probably stop feeling such a responsibility to others reading this, but I have a hard time turning that part of me to "off".

Just to clear up one more thing: When I said 20-30 minutes, I intended to describe what our experience was on our last trip, going at rope drop, walking at a good clip, but not being aggressive about it. Not anything else - just our experience. I didn't intend to say that waits couldn't be less or couldn't be more. They could. But that was our experience.

 

[WillAustin]

I would rather expect a 30 minute wait, and then be pleasantly surprised, than to expect NO wait, and have to wait 30 minutes.

The headliner standby lines do build up more quickly in the morning than in the past. Whether it's crowd levels or the FP+ returns now beginning immediately, or both, it still happens and should be expected.

 

[jtowntoflorida]

I didn't say never, I said in the 3 trips previous to FP+. The original question was how has FP+ changed your touring style. I answered honestly and told our experiences. Many people who are anti FP+ claim 12 or more FP- per day. I am not disputing that they did that, just that that was not our experience. We loved FP-, and used it often. We did not pull FP- when the ride was a walk on. Now we continue to do walk ons, and use FP+ to insure rides that we don't want to miss. Our style of park hopping now has changed, we hop more, and have more time for water parks. We enjoy WDW, and hope to continue to be part of the discussions. This is only our experience, I am sorry if it doesn't make sense to you.

Your original responses didn't include those extra details that now make things fall into place, and implied that there was no way to ride Soarin' or TSM multiple times under the legacy system even if you arrived at RD. So thanks for clarifying!

I agree that there is no way to ride Soarin' or TSM multiple times now or ever. Someone claims that they can? I'd like to know how.

We'd figured out a way to ride both rides multiple times under the legacy system. For TSM it involved a pre-opening ADR, pulling FP, riding SB, pulling another FP right when the next window opened (at 9:40, since we were usually one of the first guests to pull a FP for the day thanks to the early ADR), and then pulling our third FP when our window opened again at 11:40. So we'd have 4 rides in a day...1 via SB + 3 via FP. We'd never made it to Epcot for RD but did arrive by 10:30 or so, and even then we'd be able to pull two Soarin' FPs before they were all gone. We'd also ride during Illuminations with a short wait.

We can usually manage to ride TSM three times in a day, but it takes more effort than in the past: once at RD (again, usually with the benefit of an early ADR), once with FP+, and once right before the park closes. This also requires us to burn both ends of the candle, which also typically causes us to lose out on RD the next day. So the net is generally one less TSM ride than we could do in the past PLUS the lost RD advantage for whatever park we were going to go to the next day.