Cruise CM's- Poorly Underpaid or Living Large

[jgalecpa]

When this cruise started, I reminded my self about a similar thread about "have you ever not tipped and why". It is a fact that not everyone tips as appropriate.

Let's assume 80% of people tip well and the rest don't. Now you are nearing $36,000/year, with Room and board thrown in.

As a CPA specializing in tax, I see what people REALLY make (not what they tell their friends).

I have some clients in a quite nice steakhouse and guess what a GOOD server makes... $36,000. (and they don't get room and board).

So the DCM's make a reasonable living. Not too high, not too low. The worst living condition they encounter is separation from family and friends. Very hard to have a family life if you only see them 2x per year.

Jim

PS (I've even done the taxes for a stripper, and they don't make near as much aspeople (even they themselves) think.

PPS and yes, all the above amounts are calculated including unreported tips. We and the IRS are good at that.

 

[DisneyGator01]

Keep in mind the average crew member is working 72-80 hours per week--thats 12 hour days 7 days a week. One of my assistance servers told me that he would get one meal off every two weeks. He told me his day was usually 6:30am-11 at night, With breaks between meals, he was working 12-13 hours a day. He also said you could usually count on being stiffed by at least 1 table a cruise, and off-season you would have empty tables and half-empty tables. I read somewhere that when you break it down, most tipped cruise crewmembers average $80-120 a day, more or less depending on the season.

The plus side he said was you are saving all that money, with no expenses and you are getting paid in US dollars.. I think those are more the perks to cruise working then the amount of money they are getting.

 

[Mjasp]

Originally posted by alexandrew
Having grown up on LI, and still having family there, here are some all too true facts about the Isle of Long....

1. 75k on LI, is like 35k in NC...

Very True, But couple that $75,000 with the other income of the houshold in the $100 something thousand, and you can do it.

The old saying goes, The more you make the more you spend.

I can't believe things can be that inexpensive in the Carolinas to make it on $38,000 without another income of at least that much.
But then again maybe it is. I have no clue about that area of the world.

Anyway how did this come up from the original post of CM tips LOL

Talk about getting sidetracked and being off topic.

Joanna

 

[MrsPete]

<<<<1. 75k on LI, is like 35k in NC...heres why...
2. If you can get away with $7500 in property taxes on LI, you are way ahead of the game....most nice areas of Nassau and Suffolk you pay 10k+ in property taxes annually
3. you cant buy a tool shed in a nice area with "A" rated schools in Nassau or Suffolk for under 400k...and then you'll get a house thats 50+ years old, requiring expensive maintenance...
4. High heating oil or natural gas prices, coupled with some of the highest electric bills in U.S.
5. Lets not forget NY state tax taken from each paycheck....also, if you work in NYC, and live on LI, you pay city tax as well...
6. Higher car insurance, and more wear and tear on car due to the potholes and salt used on icy roads...

As you can see, this is a subject I'm passionate about....My family thinks LI is Nirvana, while I think otherwise....>>>>


I don't really know whether 75 K in Long Island is like 35 K in NC, but I'm very certain that money goes a lot farther here in the South! To back up your statements:

I live in a nice older house (2600 square foot, 1 acre) here in North Carolina, which is valued at about 150,000. It's not anything special, but it's an upper middle class house for this area -- all brick, huge rooms, fireplace, bay windows, nice fence, cul-de-sac location in an established neighborhood with mature trees. I'm not sure that 150,000 would buy a doghouse in Long Island.

My property taxes are about 1300 per year, and my county is significantly higher than those surrounding it.

We have our highest electric bills in the summer because of the need for air conditioning. We have several nice months in spring and fall when we don't need either heat or air -- those are big savings months!

I pay about 1400 per year for insurance on two cars AND my house. Of course, we are probably in the lowest possible category for insurance, having good driving records, living close to work -- we do get every break there. Icy roads? Yeah, we had those once last year. Once.

 

[Mjasp]

Mrs. Pete. It sounds like you have a beautiful home in a beautiful neighborhood. Sounds like you have a great deal where you are.

Your insurance sure is a great deal, I have all the possible breaks in insurance also, and pay $1400 a year on just my 2003 Honda Accord. It's all relative, I guess.

Joanna

 

[mark & sandra]

Wow, we sure are going somewhere far from the beginning of this thread. I'd like to bring it back a little. I guess my reason for asking the question is that I've read many posts, mostly about dining service, where people questioned about what is considered bad tipping in relation to bad service, and how people felt awkward about not tipping the usual amount because maybe the CM was having an "off" day, or maybe they excuse shoddy service because other passengers are overly demanding of the CM's. My original point is that I don't mind paying alot for quality and don't mind tipping well for getting it, but I do have a problem with someone suggesting to me that I tip the "customary" amount regardless of the services provided solely on the grounds that the person is needy of the extra income. Poorly given service is reason enough for little or no tip at all. I want, no I expect good service from a server who works at a restaurant and earns 1000+ a week (tips or pay). I consider that person to be a professional in their job and expect it to show in their service, likewise they can expect me to tip accordingly. If they are feeling "off" or run down, then take the day off and let someone cover for them who is on their "A" game.

 

[mkandk]

I don't want to get political, but I did want to point out that most of the pros and cons you've mentioned for these servers are the same pros and cons for the US military service. Average pay, room and board included, separation from family.

Just to put another perspective on it.

And I think a lot of Northeasterners are totally clueless on how the rest of the US live.

 

[rae519]

Also, remember that the US Dollars will be converted to their native currency which may or may not be at a good exchange rate.

A server who has long since left DCL after numerous years said that his native currency is down 80% from what it was and so the money he saved was worth a lot less.

All in perspective.

People make choices based on their best interests and their families needs - some are a more difficult challenge than others.
It was hard for us on active duty to be half a world away from family and friends - especially during crisis or celebrations. We did what we could to make the best of it and live for the moment.

And I loved Scott150's remark - being a cheap skate about a lot of things gets me more cruises - so when I am cruising, I can afford to be generous!!!!!!

Rae

 

[webray]

I think if you look at the cruise employees average salary up against the total hours worked...you would see the rate is low in comparison to what an American worker earns for actual hours worked.

 

[smchan]

Originally posted by webray
I think if you look at the cruise employees average salary up against the total hours worked...you would see the rate is low in comparison to what an American worker earns for actual hours worked.

Hmmm... maybe I'm atypical of the American worker, but I completely disagree. I am a salaried engineer and if you were to divide my salary by actual hours worked, the hourly rate doesn't look so attractive. (It's probably inline with the hourly rate of the $38k/year teacher.)

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned other benefits like retirement. Our teachers here will probably receive a full pension and medical benefits after 25-30 years of service. I doubt CM's have any such benefits. Also, how about 401k matching contributions? stock discounts or options (ok, I doubt our teachers get these since they work for the govt.)? other assistance programs? For the record, I will not receive medical benefits in retirement, though I will receive a lump sum cash amount - no pension.

Sam

 

[alexandrew]

Heres the common sense bottom line:

Do you think tipped CM's would work for DCL, eduring long hours, hard work, and alienation from their families if it wasn't worth it to them financially? Obviously there is no shortage of outstanding CM's on DCL....

 

[DisneyGator01]

Bottom line, and coming from experience no one works at WDW, DL, or DCL for the money...

 

[Grumbo]

The whole "tipping" topic has (and probably always will be) been a contentious issue.
I have to admit I look at cruises and I feel the tips are over the top. I look at the structured tipping and the rates at which Disney (and I realize other cruise lines) expect tipping and to me it is merely a subsidization of Disney's low wages. Do I think the staff should be properly compensated? Of course. Do I think we the passenger should do that? Yes. However this is a buried cost that is not only unfair to the employee, but to the passenger.

If you're not in the service industry you know what you're going to get paid. You work for your wage and know what you have to live on. Pay the workers what they're worth. As has been mentioned innumerable times there are people lining up for these job opportunities.
If the employee isn't working out... You're gone. They deserve a “fair wage” and a multimillion dollar conglomerate like Disney should pay them.
The passenger is literally "guilted" into tipping even if they feel the CM didn't deserve it. The tales of woe where people on this board comment on how people don’t show for supper or breakfast on the last night or morning, and “stiff” staff are often quoted. How CM’s snub passengers who they feel have “stiffed” them. Maybe these passengers did NOT get good service. Maybe there are excellent reasons they felt that they shouldn’t tip.
Rather than it being the norm, a tip should be something for “special” service. I doubt that the cycle of tipping will ever be broken in our society as it is so deeply ingrained, but would rather have it included in my cruise price as a part of the crew’s wages and not have these “tipping gymnastics” to add to a vacation.
I really think most of us feel the crew work hard, and deserve to be recognized. However to have the compensation resting on the whim of the passenger and having it held out as a carrot is not imho the best system nor fair.
Anyway off of my soap box and back to work
Cheers,
Grumbo

 

[rae519]

Originally posted by Grumbo
Anyway off of my soap box and back to work
Cheers,
Grumbo

Hey, that's what soap boxes are for, Grumbo!!!!
Always good to hear viewpoints that come with reasons - thanks for sharing yours!

Have a great day!

Rae

 

[EPCOTgrl1]

Originally posted by DisneyGator01
Bottom line, and coming from experience no one works at WDW, DL, or DCL for the money...

or Disney Store.

Here is my bottom line. These folks work long hours, long stretches of time in OK but not great living conditions far away from family and friends.

Comparing what they make to a teacher or an engineer or even a salaried nurse is a waste, there are just too many variables. Currency exchage, taxes, bennies, number of cruisers, even something as obsucre as having a lousey partner and it reflects on you.

They have made the choice to do this, their reasons are probably as vaired as ours in choosing what we do for a living. Disney for good or ill has set up a system where our tips are pretty much what they make.

Personally I would find it way too risky to rely or the generosity of others for my living, so I honor that choice by tipping well for the superior service I have always recieved. In addition I write letters to DCL letting them know about really superior CM's wherever I encounter them.

That's my 2 cents, your milage may vary

Denise

 

[mark & sandra]

You know with a soap box as big as the Dis Boards we could at least spread the message of DCL Cast Members who we find "post worthy" for whatever reason. Thousands of people visit these boards and many of them are visitors and repeat visitors to all things Disney. I would go as far as to say some Disney officials might even lurk out there. If we had a permanent post thread to mentioned those CM's who go the extra mile or fall far short, maybe we could have an effect. Dis-ers would know which CM's to request or avoid. Imagine the effect if a certain server was always requested and praised cruise after cruise. How many of us have gone to Disney and gotten on a bus and asked for Tyler, or gone to the haunted mansion looking for spooky Steve? We pass along a pretty powerful word here on the Dis Boards.

 

[abitjaded]

This thread has been going on quite a while, good place to post your favorite CMs:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?postid=4328829#post4328829

Carla

 

[alexandrew]

No one works for DCL or WDW for the $?.....

Then tell me, what does my Bulgarian server and Croatian asst server work for, while their families are thousands of miles away?...panache of working for Disney????or maybe they just like being around the characters....

so naive, give me a break....the next thing you'll tell me is how much they truly love Americans....

 

[Taiko]

Raised in Europe, and unused to a society where tipping can be the primary income stream, I would much rather pay an all inclusive price and not feel pressured or obligated to provide a family's basic minimum wage through goodwill. Its a flawed system at best putting the recipient, and the consumer at the mercy of an emotional reaction.
Employers should pay a living wage and not avoid the moral responsibility of making success or failure of a family, contingent upon goodwill. Socialist? maybe...just want the best deal for my fellow man.
As an employer, I start workers at $16 per hour, plus as many benefits as I can manage. Plus I will train them. Other companies pay $11 and complain about that.
I am uncomfortable with the tip jar at Starbucks. Do we need to tip mail carriers next?

 

[rae519]

Originally posted by Taiko
. Do we need to tip mail carriers next?

Only at Christmas along with all the other servers.

Rae