Crowd Outlook

[Brian Noble]

Others who know more than I do have reported that Disney doesn't share actual numbers. If you can find support, that would be interesting to see.

No they don’t. But if you read the article I linked, Rasulo shared the AB guesstimates during the presentation/q&a. So they probably weren’t vastly wrong. (They also aren’t exactly right for several other parks according to those who would know, so YMMV.) But the important part is the statement that Disney does not count a hopping guest twice.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Found it! It was 20 years ago:
https://www.laughingplace.com/w/leg/?legacyasppage=News-ID507040.asp

From that summary:



The whole thing is worth reading for those with an interest in the business side of the business.

(As an aside: back then "Amusement Business" was the name for the report that is now released by TEA/AECOM, and those were the numbers Disney was using for illustration.)

Definitly an interesting read! It's amazing to see that 70% of what Disney makes on an "in the bubble" guest is made solely on the room cost, and only 30 percent into the rest of the park

 

[Bibbidi_Boo]

I will say that, for me, the homogenization of WDW menus (Oh look! It's beef short rib! Again!) is one of the reasons I have not been itching to go back real soon.

I think that is more of it. For all those first timers food isn't so much on the radar, but it might keep people from returning since they remembered how awful the food was. While yes you have to eat no one likes paying a ton of money for blah food.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I think that is more of it. For all those first timers food isn't so much on the radar, but it might keep people from returning since they remembered how awful the food was. While yes you have to eat no one likes paying a ton of money for blah food.

it could contribute, Disneys food isn't great, but it isn't bad either which is probably all that matters

 

[RivShore]

Found it! It was 20 years ago:
https://www.laughingplace.com/w/leg/?legacyasppage=News-ID507040.asp

From that summary:



The whole thing is worth reading for those with an interest in the business side of the business.

(As an aside: back then "Amusement Business" was the name for the report that is now released by TEA/AECOM, and those were the numbers Disney was using for illustration.)

That is a great archival find Brian. Thanks!

 

[Brian Noble]

It's not awful. Honestly, it's pretty good. But there is only so much you can do with a different sauce to hide the fact that everyone is serving the same beef short rib that Disney's purchasers got a deal on this month.

 

[john7994]

It's not awful. Honestly, it's pretty good. But there is only so much you can do with a different sauce to hide the fact that everyone is serving the same beef short rib that Disney's purchasers got a deal on this month.

And would add, for many people, may even be better / different than what is available back home -

 

[RivShore]

Again you appear to be intentionally misrepresenting what was posted for some odd reason. What was said, was that Florida tourism predates WDW.

I

If someone park hops, they are counted as 2 visitors in the TEA/AECOM annual report. If someone visits all 4 parks in 1 day, they are counted 4 times. If they are a local eating dinner in Epcot, they are counted. If they are live in FL they are counted. CM's who visit a park on their day off are counted.

The Visit Florida report gives a pretty detailed breakdown of many aspects of FL tourism though. I happened to pull up the 2019 report, page 30-31 gives a host of interesting breakdowns for that year. (see below) In 2018, FL had 125million visitors.

[That same year, MK had an estimated 20,859,000 visits according to TEA/AECOMM, which is probably a bit closer to the actual number of people who visited WDW, but with no breakdown for how many were in-state. Anyone who entered the gate for any length of time = a visitor, even if they left after 5minutes, or after eating dinner in Epcot.

Under primary/Secondary reasons people visit FL (From Visit FL 2019 report https://www.visitflorida.org/media/84139/yearinreview2019.pdf )
Visiting friends/Relatives - 44%
Beach 30%
shopping 9%
Theme parks - 8%
Fine Dining 8%

They categorize visitors into 2 profile groups : Adventure and Experience:
Adventure:
Beach 56%
State/National Parks 41%
Theme parks aren't listed.

Under Experience seekers:
Fine Dining tops the list 50%
shopping -39%
Beach 37%
theme parks is 4th at 23%
Museums 21%
Nightclubs 20%

ALso:
44% visit in summer, 24% in Spring, 15% fall and 18% winter.
the top 6 markets are: NYC, Atlanta, Philly, Chicago, DC, and Boston.
Secondary are: Nashville, Houston, Detroit, Indianapolis, Dallas, Raleigh, Baltimore, St. Louis, and Los Angeles =16% of Florida’s domestic visitation.

That is some nice state level data that would be very different if focused on Central FL.

I think the problem is that you took the original question off on an unrelated/semi-related tangent.

The question is, would UO have been as successful without WDW?

There is no denying that Inland Central FL tourism exploded with WDW. Would the same have happened with only UO? That is the question.

 

[Brian Noble]

may even be better / different than what is available back home

Absolutely. And even places with good food have missing bits. We don't have Middle Eastern restaurants, we have Syrian, Lebanese, Turkish, etc. But until recently the Mexican places were mostly one step up from White People Taco Night. A few good hole-in-the-wall places have popped up, but only a few of those would last more than four months in, say, Oakland let alone San Diego.

It's one of the reasons I liked the Parrilladas at La Hacienda so much, while my son (who lives in West LA) would think it entirely ordinary and borderline bad.

 

[wabbott]

Definitly an interesting read! It's amazing to see that 70% of what Disney makes on an "in the bubble" guest is made solely on the room cost, and only 30 percent into the rest of the park

One of Michael Eisner's better ideas - to build themed hotels. IIRC, when first hired in 1984, he asked about hotels, and the answer was "Disney isn't in the hotel business." His reply was somewhat like, "Well, we are now." The first new hotel was the Grand Floridian, opened I think in 1989. Prior to that the Poly and the Contemporary were the only hotels, and there was the Golf Resort.

 

[ChipnDale79]

it could contribute, Disneys food isn't great, but it isn't bad either which is probably all that matters

i hate people are ok with mediocre food for what you pay at disney. IMO, that's why the decline in quality has taken place, so many people are ok forking out inflated prices for medicore food. It hasnt always been that way.

Quick services, yeah maybe they've always been that way, but the table service quality at many places is declined over the past few years.

 

[Jrb1979]

i hate people are ok with mediocre food for what you pay at disney. IMO, that's why the decline in quality has taken place, so many people are ok forking out inflated prices for medicore food. It hasnt always been that way.

Quick services, yeah maybe they've always been that way, but the table service quality at many places is declined over the past few years.

The return of the dining plan is going to make it worse.

 

[ChipnDale79]

The return of the dining plan is going to make it worse.

I used to be all about the dining plan, now that both of my kids are over 10, the price is just flat out stupid.

Its a hard pass for us now, unless they bring back "free dining"

 

[Jrb1979]

I used to be all about the dining plan, now that both of my kids are over 10, the price is just flat out stupid.

Its a hard pass for us now, unless they bring back "free dining"

Don't be surprised when that does come back

 

[ChipnDale79]

Don't be surprised when that does come back

I'd actually be surprised if it did, its been gone for awhile now. If it does come back, that'll tell me the crowds are really down.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

i hate people are ok with mediocre food for what you pay at disney. IMO, that's why the decline in quality has taken place, so many people are ok forking out inflated prices for medicore food. It hasnt always been that way.

Quick services, yeah maybe they've always been that way, but the table service quality at many places is declined over the past few years.

i think it's because food is secondary to most other things at Disney. Personally I think the next few years are going to force them to up their offering and hopefully food will be in focus since it's an easy thing to upsell to customers and word of mouth with food can be helpful, especially if you're on the fence

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Don't be surprised when that does come back

I think it will as well, rooms and dining have been Disney's way of combatting slow times forever, (baring the last few years) i think that it works, otherwise Disney would have moved on years before COVID

 

[jerry557]

i hate people are ok with mediocre food for what you pay at disney. IMO, that's why the decline in quality has taken place, so many people are ok forking out inflated prices for medicore food. It hasnt always been that way.

Quick services, yeah maybe they've always been that way, but the table service quality at many places is declined over the past few years.

It has. Even at the more expensive places. Californian Grill has been terrible in my opinion….compared to what it used to be. I’d say Steakhouse 71 is better than California Grill right now.

But especially restaurants that were closed for an extended period during COVID seems like they never really fully recovered when they reopened. Ohana’s for example has an obvious decline in quality compared to 2019.

Buffets never were the greatest (buffet food is typically mediocre anywhere) but it’s VERY overpriced at Disney right now. I know people pay for the experience and the characters too. But $60+ a person for fast food quality food is tough to swallow.

 

[ChipnDale79]

It has. Even at the more expensive places. Californian Grill has been terrible in my opinion….compared to what it used to be. I’d say Steakhouse 71 is better than California Grill right now.

But especially restaurants that were closed for an extended period during COVID seems like they never really fully recovered when they reopened. Ohana’s for example has an obvious decline in quality compared to 2019.

Buffets never were the greatest (buffet food is typically mediocre anywhere) but it’s VERY overpriced at Disney right now. I know people pay for the experience and the characters too. But $60+ a person for fast food quality food is tough to swallow.

Ohana has been a must for us on every trip since 2008, the last 2 times were awful. My wife and I both said on our last trip, that would be the last time eating there for awhile. It’s a shame, Ohana used to be awesome

 

[NickC]

I don't think WDW does 'fine dining' particularly well. Some of the nicer places (Space 220, California Grill) are OK, but I can get better food at home for less. I think the best food is available at the 'mid-tier' places.