Covid And The Rest of Us

[Karin1984]

We have a date! NL will start on the 8th of January IF the EMA approves of the vaccin on the 6th.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

We have a date! NL will start on the 8th of January IF the EMA approves of the vaccin on the 6th.

So close for y'all just a few more weeks potentially

 

[lisaviolet]

Its not going to be forever. Now that Vaccine is out by the end of the year I can see mask restrictions being lessened.

I don't think they will be, or should be.

(I don't care for them, do not wear them outside unless mandated and I would love an end to them. )

Besides compliance issues with the vaccine,
they are not 100% on transmission - they think they know but are not airtight in their knowledge.

Honestly I wish we would hear more immediate realism about 2021. Hope - and a breather - is a wonderful and crucial part of life but I do wish there would be more education on what a vaccine roll out can and can not accomplish.

 

[lisaviolet]

California is of particular interest to me as I have visited many times and note with interest that including LA, San Diego and the counties in between, there are more people than in the entire country of Canada. You sure have not done very well, have you? I'm sorry to hear it. Over 3 times the amount of cases and almost twice the number of deaths as all of Canada combined. I must attribute some of it to the density of the population.

I have family in the LA area.

I truly believe it is a lack of compliance, on small issues that can easily become large, especially with density of population. Not severe "not doing THAT" but smaller, quieter choices.

And that is all I am at liberty to say, without being a ****ty family member.

 

[lisaviolet]

Some people here say: "Well, we live in small village A. The shopping streets are quiet! We shouldn't close down because of a problem in big city B." But they fail to see that if you close down city B, people will go to the places that are open and flock to village A. That's just human nature.

Yes that is exactly what is happening here. And now there is a push to put everyone in lockdown due to the crossing of borders. It was just Toronto proper and another community. Now it is expanding and today a push to go full region to try to curb the constant crossing of borders. (I can't believe I am typing borders about a metropolitan area as if we are different entities, sad)

I agree it is absolutely just human nature. But here it is that plus "Daddy says I can't shop - only for essentials, so now I am going to shop tenfold."

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Thanks for answering Karin, I really enjoyed reading your thoughts. And I will be curious to see if yours, Ireland's and Germany's different take on how to deal with Christmas plays out. I like it more. Ask people to be responsible, I think it is more humane. And I predict no different outcome from our stricter measures.

 

[lisaviolet]

Here is the mask issue in a nutshell -

Most of us don't understand it. The refusal, for me, is akin to a temper tantrum. No one likes it. It simply helps everyone, as best as it can. It truly is a non-issue here for the most part. So if you have constant issues with it, it simply comes off as a juvenile response. I honestly don't know any other way to explain it (and we have been asked here to give our take, so not speaking out of turn).

I know that sounds awful, and absolutely condescending. I will just have to own it.

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Overall, many of us are so soft compared to our ancestors (and in comparison to many in other countries today).

Including myself and my own country, of course.

 

[jlwhitney]

Here is the mask issue in a nutshell -

Most of us don't understand it. The refusal, for me, is akin to a temper tantrum. No one likes it. It simply helps everyone, as best as it can. It truly is a non-issue here for the most part. So if you have constant issues with it, it simply comes off as a juvenile response. I honestly don't know any other way to explain it (and we have been asked here to give our take, so not speaking out of turn).

I know that sounds awful, and absolutely condescending. I will just have to own it.

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Overall, many of us are so soft compared to our ancestors. Including myself and my country, of course.

Bottom line is people don’t like the govt mandates and are fearful they will never be removed. As it’s going every few days they keep moving the goal post out further and further of restrictions going away even past the point when anyone can get a vaccine that wants one.

 

[kyton]

The NSW Premier has this morning stated that genomic testing has confirmed that our current outbreak of 17 were from an overseas source - they know where it came from however will not be releasing that until later today when the updated testing results are also published. The Premier must already know the numbers as she has stated the section in Sydney needs to self isolate after being tested and the rest of our state needs to recognise this will become greater in transmission. Reading between the lines it sounds like when they announce the new numbers plus where it came from they will also announce new regulations for overseas airline staff at the same time.

 

[elphaba91]

Just goes to show how insidious Covid is - here in NSW, Australia we had had no local cases for a couple of weeks then bam, yesterday a bus driver who ferries international flight staff from Sydney airport to their hotel has tested positive. This has sent our government into a plan to discuss locking down / testing all airline staff upon arrival in case it happens again.

Then later the same day 2 people tested positive in another part of Sydney (not known contacts earlier today to the bus driver) which has today turned into 17 cases. Genomic testing is underway to see if the cases are all from the same carrier.

Very scary situation. We’re waiting with baited breath in Victoria, hoping they manage to turn things around quickly. It's pretty clear that NSW also has issues with their hotel quarantine system and particularly with airline crews not being required to isolate.

On a personal level, this could also impact on our family's Christmas plans. My cousin is coming down from Byron Bay (which is about 8 hours north of Sydney so of no real risk), but it could get tricky if either Victoria or Queensland (she's flying out of the Gold Coast) close their borders totally. Her boyfriend is also supposed to be coming, but is visiting family in WA first and then going back there after Christmas; I think he is there already (which is lucky as WA has shut their border to NSW), but I don't know if his plans will now change.

 

[NFLDERS]

Its not going to be forever. Now that Vaccine is out by the end of the year I can see mask restrictions being lessened.

Apparently, masks become more important when one has been vaccinated. Dang.. I need to find that information again.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/08/health/covid-vaccine-mask.html

 

[ronandannette]

Apparently, masks become more important when one has been vaccinated. Dang.. I need to find that information again.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/08/health/covid-vaccine-mask.html

I need to find more information about this - pronto. I've heard this mentioned very superficially before and I'm beside myself. I have never, ever, ever in my life heard it said of any vaccine that you will still contract the disease and be able to transmit it. What is it about this vaccine or virus? Are they all like that and if so, why do so few people know it.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Here is the mask issue in a nutshell -

Most of us don't understand it. The refusal, for me, is akin to a temper tantrum. No one likes it. It simply helps everyone, as best as it can. It truly is a non-issue here for the most part. So if you have constant issues with it, it simply comes off as a juvenile response. I honestly don't know any other way to explain it (and we have been asked here to give our take, so not speaking out of turn).

I know that sounds awful, and absolutely condescending. I will just have to own it.

----------

Overall, many of us are so soft compared to our ancestors. Including myself and my country, of course.

We discussed this in the office earlier this week. Some truly have difficulties wearing masks. It is often dismissed as ridiculous. If one ever has trouble breathing perhaps they will have a better understanding. If you start to cough, wheeze or choke...breathing quickens and becomes more shallow. This makes the issue worse than ever. Gasping for air can be a bit unnerving.

Apparently, masks become more important when one has been vaccinated. Dang.. I need to find that information again.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/08/health/covid-vaccine-mask.html

A vaccine provides immunity to the disease. Articles are still saying the efficacy rate for Moderna and Pfizer are about 95%. Thats a pretty darn good number. Likely J&J will be out around March. Mask mandates will be tough to push past spring. It will probably affect compliance with the vaccination if the restrictions and mandates don't lighten up. Otherwise it doesn't provide much incentive to get poked.

 

[BadPinkTink]

Found this over on The UK travel planning section. This is an update from Israel

Israel is vaccinating everyone who is 60 years old and up in the first round.
Healthcare workers are all being vaccinated through work.
The public (60 years old an up) are being vaccinated through their healthcare organizations.
We have socialized medicine similar to the UK, except that we have 4 healthcare organizations (not one).
But it operates like socialized medicine and everyone is covered.
And the government instructs the 4 organizations what they have to cover, what they can charge. Things like that.

Anyway, the government has instructed that everyone 60 and over is to be vaccinated in the first round, which is apparently beginning on Sunday.
There's enough vaccine already in the country to cover 1.9 million people (3.8 million doses), which is a lot.
There are about 9 million people living here, so 1.9 million people is a large chunk of the population.

Yesterday at 6 PM, my husband and i got emails to call the central number to make our appointments.
We tried calling right away, but the phone system crashed because so many people were calling.
So we tried again at opening this morning (8 am) and got through.
Wednesday morning (at 10:24 and 10:32) was available at the vaccine center near us, so we were very happy to reserve that.
they also gave us appointments for the 2nd dose in january.
.

 

[Babsy]

We discussed this in the office earlier this week. Some truly have difficulties wearing masks. It is often dismissed as ridiculous. If one ever has trouble breathing perhaps they will have a better understanding. If you start to cough, wheeze or choke...breathing quickens and becomes more shallow. This makes the issue worse than ever. Gasping for air can be a bit unnerving.

A vaccine provides immunity to the disease. Articles are still saying the efficacy rate for Moderna and Pfizer are about 95%. Thats a pretty darn good number. Likely J&J will be out around March. Mask mandates will be tough to push past spring. It will probably affect compliance with the vaccination if the restrictions and mandates don't lighten up. Otherwise it doesn't provide much incentive to get poked.

I have some thoughts on wearing masks and getting vaccines that I hope to clarify why perhaps some of us feel wearing masks is a good thing and why vaccines are necessary even if we don't get immediate relief. The following is an expression of my personal opinion and is not meant to offend or attack, but to explain and give reasons for my point of view.

Getting on my soap box:

I too have trouble breathing and yes, it is unnerving when you are gasping for breath, to say the least. It is not ridiculous to have trouble wearing a mask. It is a difficulty that is by far the lesser of two evils, though. Trouble breathing is far worse, however, when you have a respiratory illness that exacerbates that difficulty breathing. Night time can be scary in those times, especially when you are alone. I have experienced difficulty breathing alone at night - it can be terrifying. I comfort myself with the thought that, although it feels like I am suffocating, I am not, not really. Just imagine experiencing this, and worse, alone in hospital and knowing that this may well be killing you.....for far too many people, that is how they die with Covid.
This is one reason why I push through the problems with wearing the mask - if a small piece of relatively easily breathed through fabric can prevent me and/or others from going through the torment of not being able to breathe to the degree that happens with Covid - then I am OK getting used to wearing a mask. Some masks are easier to wear than others, some masks will fog up glasses less than others, you just have to find the one that works best for you and wear it when necessary. It does get easier over time. You will adjust, though it will never feel as good as breathing without a mask. BUT, here's the point. It won't harm you even though: it is uncomfortable, it is perhaps harder for you than some people, or it fogs up your glasses. At the end of the argument - it will help protect you and others from something FAR WORSE than the difficulty that you are experiencing with a mask.


The biggest incentive for getting the vaccine is that in about 6 months to a year after this, we will most likely get our lives back. It still isn't just about you or me alone - it is about all of us. The vaccine will work when we are all (or nearly all) vaccinated. That is one HUGE incentive. Instead of hospitals over run, people losing their livelihoods and massive illness and dying - we can get together again and live our lives. Yes, maybe the masks will still be here with us for another year, but now we see a way to really reduce the scale of this thing to something that we can control. Covid is here. It is unlikely to completely go away. But we can put it into the category of another illness to be careful of and to get vaccinated against rather than a devastating pandemic such as what we have now.

But, yes, if you are lucky enough to get the vaccine early, you may have to continue as we are now until more people have also been able to get vaccinated. That will include still wearing a mask and. washing your hands and socially distancing. That may feel frustrating. But just because you are one of the lucky ones doesn't mean that this is over. The rest of us are still waiting for our turn to be safe from the massive illness that Covid can bring.

Meanwhile, especially for many of us with pre existing conditions, there is another, more immediate incentive for getting the vaccine. It is the ability to live a life without numbing fear. It will allow a little freedom to leave your home without fear, to no longer feel like a prisoner. I am tired of staying home alone, not seeing my children and grand children, and being afraid of the people I run into when I HAVE NO choice but to go out for some reason. I long for the opportunity to chat with a friend, sing in a church, go to a movie, eat in a restaurant or go back to WDW. Small things and large, I miss them all.

So... Young healthy people who are not afraid of Covid feel that no one else has the right to tell them what they have to do. I get it, we do live in a free country. People that have more difficulty wearing a mask feel that this is too hard to have to live this way. I understand and literally feel your pain. People wearing glasses can barely see where they are going when wearing a mask. I get it, I wear glasses too and I live up north where temperature changes make this situation even worse. Yeah, it sucks!

But wearing a mask is vastly better than getting a severe case of Covid. You may feel that it is unlikely to happen to you. Everyone feels that way. But it is real and it is happening to millions of people every day.

Is this me trying to induce fear? You bet it is! Healthy, respectful fear is not a bad thing. When my kids were young I taught them to respectfully fear hot things like fire. They could get burned, if they weren't careful. Fire handled improperly puts other people at risk as well. So, I also taught them what to do to minimize the risk when dealing with fire. That way they are protected from danger and are less likely to cause danger to others. Did I curtail their right to do as they please and play with matches on the floor? Yep, I sure did! Rights and freedoms have limits!

This pandemic is revealing the nature of the people in our countries. It is revealing our moral fiber and our strength of character. It shows just how much we really care about suffering and even unnecessary deaths in others around us. What the current lack of compliance wearing a mask tells me about us as a nation, terrifies me almost as much as Covid.

Doctors and nurses wear masks all day long when operating on patients. Do they have a right not to wear a mask? It is uncomfortable for them, but they do so to protect their patients. For a few months, we are experiencing this tiny thing that they do every day to protect us and we say "NO, it is too hard" or "No, you can't tell me what to do"? Right now, they need us to help them survive the trauma that they are experiencing while helping others. By wearing a mask we reduce the spread of the virus and lighten their work load.


So, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE! Wear a mask!


getting off my soap box

 

[piglet1979]

I need to find more information about this - pronto. I've heard this mentioned very superficially before and I'm beside myself. I have never, ever, ever in my life heard it said of any vaccine that you will still contract the disease and be able to transmit it. What is it about this vaccine or virus? Are they all like that and if so, why do so few people know it.

I do know that you can still get chicken pox even though you had the vaccine. I worked at a daycare for many years and we had at least 1 student that had the vaccine that did get the chicken pox. It is very very mild though if you get it.

 

[ronandannette]

I do know that you can still get chicken pox even though you had the vaccine. I worked at a daycare for many years and we had at least 1 student that had the vaccine that did get the chicken pox. It is very very mild though if you get it.

I'm not scientist but I would expect there are extremely rare cases like that but I am anxiously awaiting further clarity on this from our authorities. I simply can't deal with a casual "...oh, and by the way, the vaccine won't actually curtail the spread of Covid."

 

[Jrb1979]

I'm not scientist but I would expect there are extremely rare cases like that but I am anxiously awaiting further clarity on this from our authorities. I simply can't deal with a casual "...oh, and by the way, the vaccine won't actually curtail the spread of Covid."

Its no different than the flu shot. That' doesn't stop the spread of the flu it just makes it so if you do get it the symptoms are much less

 

[BadPinkTink]

I know its hard but there plenty of other threads to discuss your opinions on vaccines and masks, Those of us outside of USA are trying to keep this for just updates about our countries, we have people posting from Canada, Australia, Honduras and various countries in Europe. Those updates are starting to get lost

 

[ronandannette]

I know its hard but there plenty of other threads to discuss your opinions on vaccines and masks, Those of us outside of USA are trying to keep this for just updates about our countries, we have people posting from Canada, Australia, Honduras and various countries in Europe. Those updates are starting to get lost

I've watched with interest the announcements from several European countries and the UK that the restrictions on gathering will be lifted temporarily for Christmas. Is that happening in Ireland? Frankly, I'm jealous and feel like it would be a HUGE boost for morale but it's also very counter-intuitive to keeping the transmission rates down. Any thoughts @Karin1984 and BPT or any of our other international posters? Also, if @bavaria is out there reading, we'd all love to hear your take.

 

[BadPinkTink]

I've watched with interest the announcements from several European countries and the UK that the restrictions on gathering will be lifted temporarily for Christmas. Is that happening in Ireland? Frankly, I'm jealous and feel like it would be a HUGE boost for morale but it's also very counter-intuitive to keeping the transmission rates down. Any thoughts @Karin1984 and BPT or any of our other international posters? Also, if @bavaria is out there reading, we'd all love to hear your take.

Its a bit all over the place right now. A few weeks ago they announced travel restrictions would be lifted and people could travel domestically to different counties and over Christmas you could have people from different households to visit. These would be from today 18 December to 6 January. However in the past week our numbers are spiking again and the Irish Government is meeting today and Monday and on Tuesday they will make an announcement. Our CMO is recommending that the reducing of restrictions be stopped sooner than January 6. I am expecting that they will announce bars and restaurants to close and stopping domestic travel on December 28. I think that the worry is that people have taken advantage of the loosing of restrictions and have become too lax about social distancing and mask wearing and meeting other households.