Could this be an illness? (VERY LONG)

[beck0321]

Or does this person just not care?

*I'm sorry, this going to be long and I'm sure most people don't care about my family problems, I just wanted to see if anyone else has had this problem before and what was done*

I wanted to get you guys' opinions on a family member of mine who has been giving the family a lot of trouble lately. At first I thought she was just being a selfish b**ch, but then I started reading about autism and Asperger's (sp?) syndrome as well as other psycological disorders, and I think there might be more going on here.

My family member is a girl, 20 years old with a child that is two years old. Ever since she was a child she was a problem. She acted out in school and at home and was diagnosed with ADD (however, EVERYONE under the sun was being diagnosed with that then). She went to some therapy sessions but they didn't help. Currently, she is a junior college drop-out (failed first semester and was expelled), has no social skills (not even enough to hold a dead-end job for more than a couple of months), has abused alcohol and drugs recently/maybe currently, is a compulsive lier, is attracted to men who abuse her and seems to have no concern for who she hurts in her selfish attempts of pleasure. It is hard for her to keep friends because she is constantly lying to them and getting caught in the act. She lies about unimportant things. She will tell you she is going to Walmart, when she is really going to Target, and she lies about big things. She will tell her mom she sleeping at a friend's house when she is really going out of town and turns her cell phone off, so she can't be reached. (mind you, there is a small child involved in all this at the mom's). She is fixated on very odd things such as having a STRONG desire to own a Chrystler LaBarren (seriously who thinks of a junky LaBarren as their "dream car"). Her fixations are not really "cute" or "artistic," just more off the wall and insane. I wish I were exaggerating here, but I'm not. Everyone in the family is pretty upset with her. She has the need to "party" all the time and has no concern for her child, which gets dumped on her mom or at the baby daddy's house. Did I mention she still lives at home, but is looking into Section 8 housing (and is EXCITED about it)? I honestly don't think she could even afford Section 8, as she makes $20 a week at her "job" and has mommy and daddy pay for basically EVERYTHING.

I understand part of the problem was the way she was raised. She was never really disciplined. The mom would make threats and say "your punished" but then nothing would happen. She never learned that there are REAL consequences for her actions. Also words such as "I hate you" and "Shut up!" were allowed to be directed at the parents with no consequence. (If I said either one of those to my parents, I really fear they would have killed me). She dumps the baby on her mom, but her mom doesn't say anything because she doesn't want the baby to end up in a bad situation (which would probably happen).

My family member's sister calls me often to complain. I obviously don't talk bad about her to her sister, and I don't really have any advice to offer. I feel bad about that, because we are all so close, I wish I could help. I told her sis that maybe there should be some kind of family intervention, but I doubt that would solve anything. I am beginning to think this girl has a mental problem that needs to be addressed by a psycologist or doctor. I honestly think some time in a mental hospital would benefit her, as I can see her attempting suicide one day and leaving her poor son behind. Her lack of emotion for ANYTHING is what concerns me the most and makes me think this may be a form of autism or a mental problem.

Has anyone had any similar experiences with family or friends. I am at a loss on what kind of advice to offer my other family members in dealing with the person. I think it's time someone stand up and tell this girl to get some professional help.

 

[Liberty Belle]

She definitely sounds like she has a personality disorder to me. I'm not a doctor or a counselor, but I work with Autistic kids and it doesn't sound like Autism at all. I'm wondering if maybe she is bipolar. Does she get violent?

 

[rhiannonwales]

Seriously yes there is something wrong with her. IT could be a combination of problems.My son is ADHD as well, but he also has a sensory disorder and a disorder called Opppsitional Defiant Disorder. Unfortunetly, alot of these disorders come in teams. My kids dad is also ADHD, so ive seen the adult behavior as well. IT really seems like there is something wrong with your family member besides poor upbringing. She should probably get a psychiatric evaluation, but its near impossible to do without the persons consent.They basically have to be considered danger to themsleves.

Good Luck in dealing withthis, i know how frustrating it can be.

 

[Christine]

No experience here. But I tend to believe that there is more going on here than just being a defiant or ill-disciplined person.

This month's issue of Psychology Today has an article on Asperger's and females. I do think that you are onto something. Apparently it is way underdiagnosed in females. The article centers around a particular girl and her traits/struggles, etc. She had extremely supportive parents who worked with her since she was a child and never really stopped trying to have her evaluated. I'm sure that this family member could be a "worst case" issue of this disorder.

 

[#1MMFan]

Well, reading what you have written my general impression is that the girl is dysfunctional, but does not necessarily meet any criteria of a psychiatric illness (either the ICD-10 criteria or the DSM-IV) as far as I'm aware. Sadly, she just sounds like a lot of people I come across day-to-day in my work, and in the same way as you are just now, many relatives/friends cling to the hope that there is some "psychiatric illness" going on to account for the problem and hope (in a well-intentioned and honorable way) for a miracle cure. (edited to include: My work as a family physician means I see psychiatric illness daily, and people with psychosocial crises, so I understand exactly what you are talking about.)

I don't think she'd necessarily benefit from admission to a psychiatric unit, but that said she might benefit from talking about the problems with someone - your problem really is that she doesn't have to if she's not motivated to do so. From what you are describing she could not be sent involuntarily to a psychiatric unit for assessment (or "sectioned" as we call it over here).

I feel for you and for her, but I'm afraid there may be very little you can do until she hits rock bottom and decides to do something for herself. Sorry

 

[Alison Wonderland]

Google "oppositional defiant disorder" and "conduct disorder" and see if it sounds like her. This seems like more to me than Asperger's. Really, I am glad the mom is there to take care of the little girl.

 

[Hedy]

Sounds like something is up, mentally speaking. I might run the idea of doing inpatient stay, or DBT therapy.

 

[Christine]

I feel for you and for her, but I'm afraid there may be very little you can do until she hits rock bottom and decides to do something for herself. Sorry

Yeah, the time to intervene would have been while she was a teen and her parents could force her to be evaluated. Now, it's all up to her.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

First order of business is too take care of the child. So encourage family members to "find an in" when it arises to take over custody of her son, if this is at all possible.

Yes she sounds mentally ill in some way and her family is in "denial". Understand that this is VERY VERY common.
They feel more comfortable complaining about her than getting her help.

As a person who has had to deal with mental illness dynamics in our families, it is a very difficult undertaking to help someone. It requires strong people to do it. Sounds like there is no one to help in that family.

 

[#1MMFan]

Sounds like something is up, mentally speaking. I might run the idea of doing inpatient stay, or DBT therapy.

I don't see how you can involuntarily section her, and I think from the sound of it, it is very unlikely the girl will discuss seeing a psychiatrist in her current disposition.

 

[#1MMFan]

You know the other thing is that the family is neglected in these situations. Even if the girl herself doesn't have a true psychiatric illness, her effects on the family will certainly cause psychosocial problems. If I were the OP I'd suggest talking the family members into seeing their own family doctor (individually) to discuss the impact on them, and how they can take care of their own psychosocial wellbeing (and of course the child involved) while the girl continues to act in the same way. Maybe I'm not putting that across understandably?

 

[Christine]

You know the other thing is that the family is neglected in these situations. Even if the girl herself doesn't have a true psychiatric illness, her effects on the family will certainly cause psychosocial problems. If I were the OP I'd suggest talking the family members into seeing their own family doctor (individually) to discuss the impact on them, and how they can take care of their own psychosocial wellbeing (and of course the child involved) while the girl continues to act in the same way. Maybe I'm not putting that across understandably?

I get what you're saying. It's sort of like going to Al-Anon meetings when a family member is the alcoholic and you are just trying to figure out how to cope.

I am thinking, though, that since there is a child involved that the grandparents could act on the child's behalf in order to get the mom into some sort of counseling. However, that would be so messy and uncomfortable.

 

[#1MMFan]

They could act on the child's behalf to get custody of the child. That would be my feeling.

I think it's more than just the analogy of going to Al-Anon meetings - a lot of these relatives I see often end up off work with depression and anxiety and needing their own treatment. It's more than just getting some support through agencies allied to medicine, in many cases... but I appreciate what you're saying.

 

[shirleyb]

Doesn't sound like Aspergers to me. It's hard to say, just from your description, but she could just be the result of extremely poor parenting.

 

[beck0321]

You know the other thing is that the family is neglected in these situations. Even if the girl herself doesn't have a true psychiatric illness, her effects on the family will certainly cause psychosocial problems. If I were the OP I'd suggest talking the family members into seeing their own family doctor (individually) to discuss the impact on them, and how they can take care of their own psychosocial wellbeing (and of course the child involved) while the girl continues to act in the same way. Maybe I'm not putting that across understandably?

I have never thought of it in this way, but that is some good advice. Fortunately it is not as "close to home" as it is for others in my family (including some immediate family). I am really close to this girl's sister and see her as my own sister. We talk often and I feel bad because I have no advice to give her. Christmas is going to be quite awkward this year (as things have gotten progressively worse over the last year). The child involved is SO cute though and is definately spoiled by others (if not his actual mother). I'm sure he'll be the main focus this Christmas as he is the only child in the family on that side.

Thanks everyone for the advice! I can only hope that everything turns out OK...

 

[dolphinrescuegirl]

This sounds A LOT like my brother. He is bi-polar and nothing worked as a kid. In fact he joined the army about a year ago and he is still lying about stuff. My family compares notes and we try to figure out what is real and not. I have to say that he is a lot better since joining but still...... Good Luck!

 

[barkley]

sounds exactly like lots of people i worked with in social services (and a family member i have). not nesc. any mental illness involved-just a personal choice to live their life in a manner not the norm for most adults. probably in large part because she was never raised with boundaries/consequences for inappropriate behaviours she's been 'conditioned' to know she can get away with allot of stuff that just would'nt fly with most people (and since her parents are financialy and emotionaly supporting the behaviours currently it's just reinforcing her in doing them).

unless she does something detrimental to the child-the way the situation has been explained in the op does'nt indicate any basis for losing child custody. leaving a child at a parent/grandparent's house is actualy the responsible and caring thing to do (the neglectfull ones leave the kids alone at home unattended). not having a job (or one that only pays a little amount) is'nt child neglect or abuse-she KNOWS that mom/dad are providing shelter and food for her child (and likely ensuring medical care is taken care of). shoot-homelessness is'nt a basis for child custody loss-so long as the child is not endangered or neglected by the situation.

sounds like the lies can be both a 'tool' for her as well as a habit-the big lies about her whereabouts allow her to take off and avoid confrontation about the situation until after she's accomplished/attained her enjoyment-the little ones may just be habit.

as for being fixated on something that seems odd like a particular car-some people are just that way. i had completly mentaly healthy adult clients whose dream cars, dream jobs, dream homes were nothing i could fathom as being something to dream for-but it suited their desires and tastes. and for many people 'section 8' acceptance is a HUGE reason to celebrate-not many programs are structured such that it's an incentive financialy NOT to work (i had plenty of clients who rented stunning properties that ran upwards of $2000 a month-and their share could be $14 a month for YEARS).

she's not without emotions-she just focuses on personal pleasure and when she does'nt get her way-hostility-and it sounds like her social skills are focused on those areas that SHE deems as important-partying and personal gratification. if she's never HAD to retain a job or stay in school and has no personal desire to do so-she likely does'nt feel as though she needs to adapt to the socialization skills necessary to succeed in those situations.

it's realy frustrating to deal with someone in this mind set-sometimes the family taking a hard line and not facilitating the behaviours works, but it's a hard road-and if they 'give in' it just reinforces the person's negative behaviours and teaches them that future 'threats' are likely not to be carried out so they are not 'threats' at all.

 

[Poohnatic]

It doesn't sound like Asperger's to me, but it does sound like there are some mental issues that need to be addressed.

The way I'd explain Asperger's
1. Can she make eye contact? Aspies have a hard time making and maintaining Eye Contact.
2. Can she carry on a conversation with three or more exchanges with another party? Aspies usually have a hard time doing this, and usually are back to their focus topic by their third turn (however, my 21 yo nephew is Aspie and he can converse now-with years of therapies)
3. Does she obsess about a topic and talk about it incessantly, even after others have told her they are not interested?


Those are the biggies. My experience with my son and nephew is that Aspies are not very good at lying. They try, but it's rather obvious to me when either one of them tries.

Good luck in getting intervention for this young lady. Since she's over 18, it'll probably be extremely difficult to get her Baker Acted, unless she's harming others or herself physically.

Suzanne

 

[hentob]

I would say that I am 99.9% sure it is not an autistic spectrum disorder (that includes Aspergers).

For the most part, people on the autistic spectrum are not liars. They cannot lie. The way an Aspie (or other ASD folks) are wired, they are not capable of deceptive practices. If anything, they tell the truth to a fault

I am not as educated in mental illnesses, so I have no advice for you. Just a

Good luck to you.

............is a compulsive lier, is attracted to men who abuse her and seems to have no concern for who she hurts in her selfish attempts of pleasure. It is hard for her to keep friends because she is constantly lying to them and getting caught in the act. She lies about unimportant things. She will tell you she is going to Walmart, when she is really going to Target, and she lies about big things. .

 

[hentob]

It doesn't sound like Asperger's to me, but it does sound like there are some mental issues that need to be addressed.

The way I'd explain Asperger's
1. Can she make eye contact? Aspies have a hard time making and maintaining Eye Contact.
2. Can she carry on a conversation with three or more exchanges with another party? Aspies usually have a hard time doing this, and usually are back to their focus topic by their third turn (however, my 21 yo nephew is Aspie and he can converse now-with years of therapies)
3. Does she obsess about a topic and talk about it incessantly, even after others have told her they are not interested?


Those are the biggies. My experience with my son and nephew is that Aspies are not very good at lying. They try, but it's rather obvious to me when either one of them tries.

Good luck in getting intervention for this young lady. Since she's over 18, it'll probably be extremely difficult to get her Baker Acted, unless she's harming others or herself physically.

Suzanne

I posted before I saw yours Good advice