Contract Regret (Home Resort)

[rusafee1183]

Do you have availability issues at other resorts? Do you plan to stay only at SSR?

Bill

We like to stay all over, and try new places. We have our favorites (AKV, VWL and BCV) So, no - I wouldn't want to stay at SSR all the time. I *would* stay there, and we did enjoy it - it just isn't one of our top choices.

IMO there is a cost side to this discussion and a usage side. I'm mostly talking cost but with the expectation one can use the points to get most things over time. There are items that will be out of bounds without the 11 month priority and truthfully, even with the home resort priority they may be elusive. These might include the BWV 3 BR & standard, AKV concierge and value and the VB beach homes. Now there will always be examples of successes but usually few and far between for off season and/or short notice.

Anything you may have overpaid really is gone so all that's applicable, assuming you're paid in full, is the relative costs and comparisons. IMO this will not make sense for most situations. The exceptions might be if you have less points and plan to add on anyway (esp smaller contract), if you had a very high demand option or if you wanted to downsize significantly. By the time you pay a commission and closing on the new purchase, you will have eaten up any savings and in the end, still have something worth less than you started out with. For sake of discussion and assuming replacing a 200 pt contract at AKV with one at SSR all points issues being the same, you'll pay commissions of around $1400 on the sale, buy SSR at maybe a $2000 savings then pay roughly $500 closing on SSR. That's roughly break even but with lower dues but IMO, the difference yearly isn't enough to make it worth this doing this plus you will give up some options that might be beneficial for rental, even if not for usage, like concierge and the value rooms.

OK, that's what I was thinking as well. We don't want to change the number of points too drastically, and by the time we jumped through all the hoops we would basically be where we started.

I do feel naive for spending so much ahead of time, but what's done is done. Overall, AKV is one of our favorite resorts anyway so I will stick with it.

And like I said to Bill, SSR isn't one of our favorite resorts anyway. It would purely be for a financial reason that I would have wanted to own there. If you're getting a product you don't really love even for a discounted price it's still not a "great deal". There is value for paying more for something you actually love.

It's just a shame that I didn't know ahead of time that I could get the product I love for the price of the product I like. But, C'est la vie.

Good discussion here all, appreciate the feedback! One of the key reasons we did buy this contract was to having booking advantage for the Christmas season since it is one where we know we can always travel. I guess what I found interesting in booking my first trip is that pretty much any resort I was interested in was open the week of October 5th. We managed to snag 5 nights at BWV without much of a problem from Tue-Sat. Noticed that AKV is pretty wide open as well, especially at Kidani. Even VGF had a couple of nights open had we decided to do a split stay.

I'm sure the first time we decide to make our way down during the Christmas season is likely when it will all make sense...

I think you're right and you will see the value in your contract once you are able to utelize it during those hard to get times of year

And like it's been mentioned, it's an in demand contract that I'm sure you could get rid of quickly if you decide you don't want it anymore. We own the 120 contract at AKV that I don't think we would be able to sell easily. But we have a 100 point and a 25 point contract at VWL that I know is pretty coveted should we ever decide to sell

 

[DizBub]

We own the 120 contract at AKV that I don't think we would be able to sell easily.

After staying in a value studio at Jambo during the 1st week of December, I am starting to rethink my earlier position about not wanting to buy AKV points. I think a 120 point contract would be very desirable.

 

[ppony]

We sort of did for a while initially when we had stayed at the AKL (when the villas were being constructed) and our first DVC stay was split between there and BLT. BLT was our first location, a 2 BR more than half way to the top and TPV to boot. Yeah, I was HUGELY bummed that wasn't our home. BUT, my family has told me they actually prefer AKVs (I like contemp. styling, they don't) and now that we've stayed there a few times and once in club level which you almost have to be a home member to secure for more than a few days, we're quite content. So, we're happy. Only do I now wish I had a small contract at the BCVs for Food & Wine and the GArden Festival. But, it's OK. We're at peace and love our home resort completely. We'd never be unhappy staying there. Were we better finanical people...we'd have bought SSR I'm sure. It makes the most sense money-wise. But we're not the most "sensical" people you'd ever meet.

 

[ppony]

But DH insisted on BLT not only because we love it with the white hot intensity of 10,000 suns.

Sounds like he was vague to me.

Plus both resorts have the second bathroom in the 1 bedrooms which we will book from time to time if family/friends are traveling with us.

Yes, but the Jambo 1BRs (which include the club level rooms) don't have that extra bathroom the Kidani ones do. I forgot that all important fact when I booked the club 1BR a few years back. I won't forget THAT again.

 

[Dean]

I do feel naive for spending so much ahead of time, but what's done is done.

As things go in timeshare purchases you're still in pretty good shape. I know many who paid tens of Thousands for something they could have bought for pennies. I know some of us make a big deal for those looking to buy in but it's simply because they have one chance to make the best decision and some of us are trying to get them to look at the real costs and get past the emotions to help them make the best decisions possible for their situation. Unfortunately some are also trying to get them to make the same mistake as others, partly to validate less than perfect decisions.

 

[rusafee1183]

As things go in timeshare purchases you're still in pretty good shape. I know many who paid tens of Thousands for something they could have bought for pennies. I know some of us make a big deal for those looking to buy in but it's simply because they have one chance to make the best decision and some of us are trying to get them to look at the real costs and get past the emotions to help them make the best decisions possible for their situation. Unfortunately some are also trying to get them to make the same mistake as others, partly to validate less than perfect decisions.

That's good to hear. Thanks Dean! It gets a little hard sometimes to read good advice after the fact. I am one of the people who beats myself up for not making the 'best' decision. It's nice to hear from someone like you, who often gives really sensible advice that its not 'as bad' as I think.

I definitely learned from my mistake and went resale for our 2nd contract

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

 

[disneynutz]

We like to stay all over, and try new places. We have our favorites (AKV, VWL and BCV) So, no - I wouldn't want to stay at SSR all the time. I *would* stay there, and we did enjoy it - it just isn't one of our top choices.

Do you have any difficulty booking non-home resorts when you want them? If not then buying SSR can save you some money,

Bill

 

[Dean]

That's good to hear. Thanks Dean! It gets a little hard sometimes to read good advice after the fact. I am one of the people who beats myself up for not making the 'best' decision. It's nice to hear from someone like you, who often gives really sensible advice that its not 'as bad' as I think.

I definitely learned from my mistake and went resale for our 2nd contract

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

We all have things we wish we'd have done differently. To me this is like sitting next to someone on a plane or cruise who got it for a lot less than you or I did. Still, mistakes and over paying adds up over time and are often an indicator of not paying attention to the choices we make. For example, those of us who use a CC and then pay it off every month spend an average of almost 15% more compared to those who don't use a CC from what I've seen. You buy DVC retail, you finance, same for the car, etc, etc and over the course of a lifetime you throw away literally millions with consistent less than good choices. The idea is to learn from our mistakes and do better going forward. One of the great things about timeshare related sites is the help we can give others to make their best decisions or at least, not make as many or as large mistakes as they might make on their own.

I have a friend who I gave a stay to at a bluegreen resort. I didn't warn him adequately up front about the sales process, of course they took the tour and bought. I was able to give him the info after the fact but while he was still in his cancelation period. He ultimately decided to keep it and throw away literally $10-15K (I'm guessing since prices are not set). I feel partially responsible but also realize that in the end it was his decision and he had the options to ultimately avoid the "mistake". Had I not been able to get him the info while he still had choices I'd feel a lot worse about it.

 

[sssteph]

This is exactly why we bought SSR, instead of AK back in 2011. I wasn't concerned with Value or Concierge at AK, so I figured buy the one with the least dues, at the time , I think the price point was the same buying direct.

 

[Trooper8286]

DH is the brains of this outfit LOL. I thought we (I?) wanted an AKL contract...we do love it there and the points were much cheaper than how TRUE first love, BLT. But DH insisted on BLT not only because we love it with the white hot intensity of 10,000 suns but also because the MF are cheaper, so for the long haul it will work better for us. We can still use our points at AK as it seems rooms are generally available when we tend to go (Sept/October). Plus both resorts have the second bathroom in the 1 bedrooms which we will book from time to time if family/friends are traveling with us.

I Love BLT, stayed at Contemporary, visited the BLT lobby, then visited the BLT models.....bought BLT re-sale. Booked a reservation, had to change it after 11 month window......Lost availability.......have not stayed there yet. Now we are headed back to AKV. Here is the thing: I REALLY LOVE BLT and in order to get a longer (in duration) reservation, I needed the 11 month advantage. This June will be our second trip to Kidani and I am stoked about it....it is really great. I have waitlisted and rechecked for BLT...not happening. So, I "get" what others have said. If it is a hard book, due to resort size or location and you LOVE IT, buy there. Otherwise, If if does not matter where you stay, SSR would be great.

 

[Buzzsgramma]

We bought BWV in 2000.....from Disney 250ptw....at the time VWL were for sale....
We had great memories there at WL with kids and small gr kids...DH said 'i really think we need to buy at the BW'...What? toured the models and purchased....

Grand kids older and so are we..lol! We all love the BWV....there is nothing like walking to Epcot or boating to DHS or both....another thing SV is low points...We have never regretted our purchase...did a small add on in 2011...

I will say if we decide to book last minute we stay at SSR and we love it...Springs section,pool,golf...just enjoy where ever you bought...

 

[WanderlustNZ]

I'm not a DVC owner, just someone who thinks it would be lovely to own about 200 points one day. It's not the cost of DVC itself that concerns me the most, but the extremely prohibitive cost of regular airfares half way across the world. For this reason alone, I think Aulani would be the only purchase that I could ever truly consider.

This aside, I've been reading this thread with interest, learning from people's experience.

The argument about being lead by your brain rather than your heart makes a lot of sense, and clearly buying at SSR works extremely well for many. However, I don't think that this is a purchase I could ever make with emotion completely removed from the equation.

Going on a vacation has never been a financial investment for me, it's an investment in my happiness. I save money where I can, but if I truly wanted to watch every dollar I wouldn't be spending my vacation time at Disney in the first place. I certainly wouldn't be considering DVC when an investment in actual property (e.g. decreasing my mortgage and consequently decreasing my long-term interest payments) would be a much better investment. To some extent any DVC purchase is an emotional one, and that's okay.

From all that I have read (including the very experienced responses on this thread) it certainly doesn't sound like AKV is the most financially sensible resort to own points at. However as someone who will never own there, but has had the great fortune to stay there, I can still see the appeal.

On a purely psychological level it must be a nice feeling to know you are tied in to a resort like AKV that is so unique and beautifully designed. This argument will seem rational to some and completely irrational to others. We are all so different and we quantify happiness in different ways. I am a long-term planner who usually gets a whole year of enjoyment just from the planning process. The earlier I get to book the resorts I love, the earlier the happiness begins.

Also, I think there is a degree of future-proofing needed when buying into tImeshares. Part of this is being prepared for the long term maintenance costs which have already been explained so well in this thread. But what about changes to your travel patterns? Just because you travel during low season at present, what happens if in 5 years time your new job only gives you time off during Xmas, or your now grown child can only vacation with you at Easter? Or what if Disney introduces a new event or new attraction in 10 years time that suddenly makes your favourite resort extremely hard to get at certain times of the year? I know that's a lot of 'what ifs', but life isn't always easy to predict. If you wouldn't be happy staying in the resort you own points at (not just now, but in 10, 20, and 30 years time) then I'm not yet convinced it's the best investment to buy there. Even if it is cheaper.

 

[sleepydog25]

I'm not a DVC owner, just someone who thinks it would be lovely to own about 200 points one day. It's not the cost of DVC itself that concerns me the most, but the extremely prohibitive cost of regular airfares half way across the world. For this reason alone, I think Aulani would be the only purchase that I could ever truly consider.

This aside, I've been reading this thread with interest, learning from people's experience.

The argument about being lead by your brain rather than your heart makes a lot of sense, and clearly buying at SSR works extremely well for many. However, I don't think that this is a purchase I could ever make with emotion completely removed from the equation.

Going on a vacation has never been a financial investment for me, it's an investment in my happiness. I save money where I can, but if I truly wanted to watch every dollar I wouldn't be spending my vacation time at Disney in the first place. I certainly wouldn't be considering DVC when an investment in actual property (e.g. decreasing my mortgage and consequently decreasing my long-term interest payments) would be a much better investment. To some extent any DVC purchase is an emotional one, and that's okay.

From all that I have read (including the very experienced responses on this thread) it certainly doesn't sound like AKV is the most financially sensible resort to own points at. However as someone who will never own there, but has had the great fortune to stay there, I can still see the appeal.

On a purely psychological level it must be a nice feeling to know you are tied in to a resort like AKV that is so unique and beautifully designed. This argument will seem rational to some and completely irrational to others. We are all so different and we quantify happiness in different ways. I am a long-term planner who usually gets a whole year of enjoyment just from the planning process. The earlier I get to book the resorts I love, the earlier the happiness begins.

Also, I think there is a degree of future-proofing needed when buying into tImeshares. Part of this is being prepared for the long term maintenance costs which have already been explained so well in this thread. But what about changes to your travel patterns? Just because you travel during low season at present, what happens if in 5 years time your new job only gives you time off during Xmas, or your now grown child can only vacation with you at Easter? Or what if Disney introduces a new event or new attraction in 10 years time that suddenly makes your favourite resort extremely hard to get at certain times of the year? I know that's a lot of 'what ifs', but life isn't always easy to predict. If you wouldn't be happy staying in the resort you own points at (not just now, but in 10, 20, and 30 years time) then I'm not yet convinced it's the best investment to buy there. Even if it is cheaper.

Well-reasoned and well-written.

 

[keishashadow]

You have a valuable, easy to sell contract which would command a high price so that is nice to know should you decide to sell.

However you also have the opportunity of booking a gorgeous resort in the autumn and xmas seasons when everyone want to stay there. the new 5 sleeping studios will make VWM even more difficult to book so you have a great advantage.

I own at SSR and love it and appreciate the lower dues and I am happy to stay there anytime but I would prefer your contract!

on behalf of the VWL owners, thank you

We like to stay all over, and try new places. We have our favorites (AKV, VWL and BCV) So, no - I wouldn't want to stay at SSR all the time. I *would* stay there, and we did enjoy it - it just isn't one of our top choices.



OK, that's what I was thinking as well. We don't want to change the number of points too drastically, and by the time we jumped through all the hoops we would basically be where we started.

I do feel naive for spending so much ahead of time, but what's done is done. Overall, AKV is one of our favorite resorts anyway so I will stick with it.

And like I said to Bill, SSR isn't one of our favorite resorts anyway. It would purely be for a financial reason that I would have wanted to own there. If you're getting a product you don't really love even for a discounted price it's still not a "great deal". There is value for paying more for something you actually love.

It's just a shame that I didn't know ahead of time that I could get the product I love for the price of the product I like. But, C'est la vie.

I think you're right and you will see the value in your contract once you are able to utelize it during those hard to get times of year

And like it's been mentioned, it's an in demand contract that I'm sure you could get rid of quickly if you decide you don't want it anymore. We own the 120 contract at AKV that I don't think we would be able to sell easily. But we have a 100 point and a 25 point contract at VWL that I know is pretty coveted should we ever decide to sell

jmho but we don't consider DVC an investment, moreso a line item in our discretionary vacation spending that was pro-rated. You can purchase a smaller contract resale for less than a week at a deluxe WDW resort, easy enough to add onto it down the road either thru DVC or another resale.

I'd not be happy owning somewhere I wouldn't designate as one of my favorite resorts, especially since we tend to visit during busy times and the 11 month window is often a factor.

Annual dues can change, wouldn't let that factor sway me either.

 

[rusafee1183]

The argument about being lead by your brain rather than your heart makes a lot of sense, and clearly buying at SSR works extremely well for many. However, I don't think that this is a purchase I could ever make with emotion completely removed from the equation.

.............

From all that I have read (including the very experienced responses on this thread) it certainly doesn't sound like AKV is the most financially sensible resort to own points at. However as someone who will never own there, but has had the great fortune to stay there, I can still see the appeal.

On a purely psychological level it must be a nice feeling to know you are tied in to a resort like AKV that is so unique and beautifully designed. This argument will seem rational to some and completely irrational to others.

First off, very well said post. Very insightful and well written.

The things I left quoted spoke directly to me. Like I said earlier, I often wondered if I hadn't made the MOST financially sound decision in choosing AKV. For us, this always came from an insecure place where I felt like we weren't really people who SHOULD have purchased DVC at all. We live paycheck to paycheck, we have other debt that we should have worked on first, we are teetering on the edge with an 11 year old car, live in a tiny duplex and spend ALL our money on Disney because we love it. So, it was always an emotional decision for us. After the fact I wondered if since we were going to do it either way, if we should have 'at least' went for the cheaper option. It obviously is something I still deal with. Especially when the financial part I my brain realizes what I have done and starts spitting out numbers at me.

BUT - that being said, I agree 100% with you about the sense of pride with owning at such an amazing and unique resort. We truly love AK, and like that we can say that we 'own' there. It's one of those things you wanted to shout from the rooftops. LOL.

I always tell people looking to buy DVC that it absolutely has not saved us any money. We were people who would stay in values and moderates (to splurge!) and we looked for pins and discounts. But what we do get is an amazing *value* for the money we do spend. So, despite the fact that I had a moment of insecurity and thought about jumping ship and buying SSR, we very much enjoy our AKV contract and like the enjoyment we get from it in emotional ways.

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

 

[SuperRob]

There's always two schools of thought with this. There's the "Buy where you want to stay" camp, and the "Buy where you can afford more points" camp. (I'm in the latter, myself.)

The "More Points" crowd almost always own at SSR, Hilton Head, or Vero Beach. Dues are low at SSR, points are cheap at all three, and the contracts are reasonably long. If you're like me and SSR was all you could afford, you'd probably be quite happy. That said, once you've experienced a few of the higher-end DVC properties, SSR can be a bit underwhelming, and it's location is only a plus if you enjoy Downtown Disney (which currently is a bit of a drag). This may change when Disney Springs is finished. My wife and I own at SSR, but quite frankly, will only ever stay there as part of our quest to stay at each resort. The mantra for many people here is that you can book at SSR at 11 months, and see what you can get at 7. It does place you at a disadvantage when trying to book in California or Hawaii, though, since that strategy doesn't work. We had to pay more points than we wanted for our Aulani trip, but it was absolutely worth it.

The "Stay" camp largely tends to justify their purchase by virtue of the 11-month booking window. It's an entirely valid point, and there's nothing that could make wonderful vacation plans turn sour quicker than finding out that there's no availability where you want to stay even at the opening of the 7-month window. However, you're going to pay a premium for the privilege. Is it worth it? Everyone has their own value judgments. Clearly, there are a lot of people who do. I'm not one of them.

Personally, I've had good luck getting the rooms I want with some pre-planning and being ready to move right when the 7-month window opens, but we're fortunate enough to only need studios. (We can also only afford studios. ) We're extremely satisfied with our purchase at SSR, and we've wrung an incredible amount of value out of it in a short period of time. Depending on how you calculate it, we'll break even on our trip this September, or our 5th anniversary trip in 2016. A five-year break-even is impressive, and it helps that we've booked stays at all the flagship resorts so far.

I would say that the single most important thing anyone should consider when buying into Disney Vacation Club is how long will it take to realize savings. If you're paying cash, this can be incredibly fast. Considering we'll only be five years into our contract before we're staying at Disney on their dime, I could care less where our "home" resort is, and since we fully intend on trying them all, we have lots of years to do it.

If you're financing your points, I'd say resort satisfaction might factor in a bit higher, since you're still paying. The last thing you'd want to do is not get into the resort you want and still be stuck paying. This is the problem with "choice." Once you have a choice in where you can buy, you'll want to justify that choice afterwards. The nice thing about my wife and I not really having a choice (other than whether or not to buy at all) is that we can't be swayed. We're either realizing value or not.

My only regret was that the single, emotional decision we made was to buy while we were on our honeymoon. If we had waited and bought SSR resale, we could have afforded more points. But even so, we also might not have done it once the honeymoon glow wore off, but I'm very glad we did.

 

[sleepydog25]

There's always two schools of thought with this. There's the "Buy where you want to stay" camp, and the "Buy where you can afford more points" camp. (I'm in the latter, myself.)

The "More Points" crowd almost always own at SSR, Hilton Head, or Vero Beach. Dues are low at SSR, points are cheap at all three, and the contracts are reasonably long. If you're like me and SSR was all you could afford, you'd probably be quite happy. That said, once you've experienced a few of the higher-end DVC properties, SSR can be a bit underwhelming, and it's location is only a plus if you enjoy Downtown Disney (which currently is a bit of a drag). This may change when Disney Springs is finished. My wife and I own at SSR, but quite frankly, will only ever stay there as part of our quest to stay at each resort. The mantra for many people here is that you can book at SSR at 11 months, and see what you can get at 7. It does place you at a disadvantage when trying to book in California or Hawaii, though, since that strategy doesn't work. We had to pay more points than we wanted for our Aulani trip, but it was absolutely worth it.

The "Stay" camp largely tends to justify their purchase by virtue of the 11-month booking window. It's an entirely valid point, and there's nothing that could make wonderful vacation plans turn sour quicker than finding out that there's no availability where you want to stay even at the opening of the 7-month window. However, you're going to pay a premium for the privilege. Is it worth it? Everyone has their own value judgments. Clearly, there are a lot of people who do. I'm not one of them.

Personally, I've had good luck getting the rooms I want with some pre-planning and being ready to move right when the 7-month window opens, but we're fortunate enough to only need studios. (We can also only afford studios. ) We're extremely satisfied with our purchase at SSR, and we've wrung an incredible amount of value out of it in a short period of time. Depending on how you calculate it, we'll break even on our trip this September, or our 5th anniversary trip in 2016. A five-year break-even is impressive, and it helps that we've booked stays at all the flagship resorts so far.

I would say that the single most important thing anyone should consider when buying into Disney Vacation Club is how long will it take to realize savings. If you're paying cash, this can be incredibly fast. Considering we'll only be five years into our contract before we're staying at Disney on their dime, I could care less where our "home" resort is, and since we fully intend on trying them all, we have lots of years to do it.

If you're financing your points, I'd say resort satisfaction might factor in a bit higher, since you're still paying. The last thing you'd want to do is not get into the resort you want and still be stuck paying. This is the problem with "choice." Once you have a choice in where you can buy, you'll want to justify that choice afterwards. The nice thing about my wife and I not really having a choice (other than whether or not to buy at all) is that we can't be swayed. We're either realizing value or not.

My only regret was that the single, emotional decision we made was to buy while we were on our honeymoon. If we had waited and bought SSR resale, we could have afforded more points. But even so, we also might not have done it once the honeymoon glow wore off, but I'm very glad we did.

Another thoughtful post. If you'll allow, then I'll be the "Stay" camp. Though we don't always get to visit during the Thanksgiving/Christmas holiday season, when we do we're thankful we bought at VWL. Even when we don't get to visit during that time, VWL is the resort we enjoy the most--there is something which speaks to us about the relative serenity of that resort. When we want to try other resorts, we're secure in the knowledge that our fallback will be our "home." We originally bought there resale though we recently acquired a smaller, direct-sale contract there, as well. The value of owning at VWL outweighs the extra points we could have afforded via the SSR, et. al., route. Having owned at SSR before, I will freely admit to not having had any issues getting into VWL at the 7-month point. . .except for Christmas. So, I do see the advantages to both sides, and as you so well stated, "Everyone has their own value judgments."

 

[brertoad]

We went with an SSR resale contract. I did a little research and chose to get more points with longer contract expiry date and lower dues.

I would really like to own at AKL because of the 11 month window, but we have enough points that we don't need any more points for the foreseeable future. Plus we would have had to pay more for the same number of points if we bought an AKL resale.

 

[panny2727]

Not to hijack, but at this point in the game.... Is it worth it to try and sell AKV contract and purchase a resale SSR contract? I did purchase in 2012, direct and way overpaid. I bought during the 'free points' incentive, so we got 120 points for the cost of 100. At that point they were $130 a point, making my contract $13,000 for 120 points.

Selling now - I am only going to get about half of what I put in. ($65ish resale I am guessing) So that would be about $7,500 that I could purchase another contract with, minus the broker fees.

Will selling now, and purchasing a SSR contract save me in the long run? Or will I pretty much break even?

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards[/QUOTE

not gonna work cause your new buy would cost 65 as well

 

[heartsy77]

Hmm you have me thinking! We bought BCV bc we thought the pool looked cool from the one time we saw it from a boat! We have 270 point contract w/ Dec use year.

My DH just said the other day,in a few years, we should sell ours and buy a resale bigger contract with longer contract length. We always take a ton Of people and would prefer 350 pts a year in retrospect . I just hope it will sell with Dec use year because I wish it was any other month!

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards