Continental to start charging extra for certain seats?

[DisneyBamaFan]

Not at all, I am referring to some in this thread (yes, you included).

LOL - you do make me laugh...

 

[jlewisinsyr]

and 7.5% tax and the landing fee. 20 years ago, a $149 advertised fare meant $149 was charged to your CC when you bought the ticket. Now that means that $184 (or some such amount) is charged to your card for the base fare.

I recall my parents buying tickets for us when I was 12 or 13 to go to the UK and the advertised fare was something like $2,099.90 and when all was said and done the actual charge was $6,500 for three people, why because the fare was seperate from the taxes.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Why is it appalling? Weight is the dominant factor in how much it costs to run a flight.

Luggage and packages don't have brains, emotions... or wallets.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Luggage and packages don't have brains, emotions... or wallets.

Have you seen the Southwest commercials? They seem to really love luggage.

 

[bettymae1121]

Sorry, but unless the flight to Orlando has an alternate landing location available, they still know what the fee will be before you book.

But you are charged the landing (PFC) in connecting cities. So if I fly from Chicago to Orlando and change planes in Dallas, it could be a different fee than if I fly from Chicago and change planes in Memphis. The fees in Orlando are known, but what the airline doesn't know is which routing you're going to take until you actually select the flights you want.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Look at advertised fares. Say you find one for $59 each way. Add on the taxes and fees and you are up to $70+ each way. Need to take a large bag, add another $20. So, your $59 ticket is now $90. That is 53% more than the advertised price.

Not false advertising at all. I have a crummy tv, so I can't see the fine (and not-so-fine) print, but I'm sure there's a disclaimer about the price not includng the taxes and fees. This is equivalent to the $699 television being advertised with - likely - the same "taxes not included" disclaimer, or DirecTV quoting a price of $20.99 a month except only the fine print tells you about the taxes and fees, and the cost of the dish not being included, and additional cost for the box... meanwhile, many travelers can manage without checked luggage.

 

[kaytieeldr]

You have bought into the BS.

Respectfully disagree. jlewisinsyr is much too experienced, informed, and savvy a traveler to have "bought into" anything.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

But you are charged the landing (PFC) in connecting cities. So if I fly from Chicago to Orlando and change planes in Dallas, it could be a different fee than if I fly from Chicago and change planes in Memphis. The fees in Orlando are known, but what the airline doesn't know is which routing you're going to take until you actually select the flights you want.

You realize that they know where the flight will be landing all along the route before they sell you the ticket, right? When they advertise a fare, any stopovers are included in that fare.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Respectfully disagree. jlewisinsyr is much to experienced, informed, and savvy a traveler to have "bought into" anything.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Sorry, but unless the flight to Orlando has an alternate landing location available, they still know what the fee will be before you book.

They = the airline's website

They don't know what a specific passenger's total PFC will be until that passenger selects an itinerary. Nonstop? No problem. It's whatever the MCO PFC is. Make a planned stop anywhere? Additional, variable depending on the specific midpoint airport, PFC needs to be added to the expected fare. Two stops/changes? Still higher total PFC.

So, a $54 fare's Passenger Facility Charges can be as low as $3, or as high as $13.50 (or more, if more stops required). The software just can't tell until the passenger chooses an itinerary.

 

[bettymae1121]

You realize that they know where the flight will be landing all along the route before they sell you the ticket, right? When they advertise a fare, any stopovers are included in that fare.

Sigh...

I've been in the travel biz since '99. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about.

The same airline may offer several different routings to get you from point A to point B. Using my Chicago to Orlando example...they may offer a 9 AM flight via Dallas and a noon flight via Memphis. Let's say Dallas has the $4.50 fee and Memphis has a $3 fee. The Dallas routing will be $1.50 more than the Memphis routing. When Major Airline advertises on TV, they have no way of knowing if you are going to pick the 9 AM via Dallas or the noon via Memphis.

They can do one of three things.

1) Advertise the price for the Dallas routing and quote it a bit higher than it might be for those that choose the Memphis routing (thus possibly making them "more expensive" than the competition).

2) Advertise it with the Memphis routing and make people who book the Dallas routing mad because it's higher than advertised "taxes included" fare (plus possibly get into trouble for false advertising).

3) Do what they have always done since deregulation and advertise all prices without taxes so they don't have to worry about it.

 

[MaumeeMom]

Why is it appalling? Weight is the dominant factor in how much it costs to run a flight.

I know many wouldn't like it but as far as I'm concerned it is the fair and equitable thing to do. We are after all cargo.

I don't agree with this pay by weight at all. People can't control how tall they grow - it is genetics. I won't get into the "fat" debate either. My husband is very tall (over 6') so he should pay more than me for the same seat since I'm only 5'3"? That doesn't make sense.

People are not cargo. I can't control how much of me to "ship" - one can control their cargo for the most part. I can control how many shirts I pack or how many pairs of shoes. I can't choose to send only half of my body.

The charges for suitcases by weight or something like that would be fine and one can choose an alternative - send a box of clothes UPS or something like that.

I worry that the extra charge for the exit rows could compromise safety. the people in the exit row must be able to perform the duties of opening the door and whatever else (deploying a chute, etc.). What happens if a person buys the exit row but really isn't up to helping in an emergency? Is is profit over safety?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

But you are charged the landing (PFC) in connecting cities. So if I fly from Chicago to Orlando and change planes in Dallas, it could be a different fee than if I fly from Chicago and change planes in Memphis. The fees in Orlando are known, but what the airline doesn't know is which routing you're going to take until you actually select the flights you want.

His point is that Southwest has no trouble including these.

So if you say--show me all flights from MCO to Chicago--it will show all options. Some slots will be pricier than others either due to high demand time frame or connections.

The premise that it is impossible, is simply a priority of the airline to choose not to to do full disclosure pricing from the first search for flights. Granted, you'll know all the taxes and fees by the time you are done. But it isn't impossible to include it throughout the process.

It is only impossible b/c most airlines have made that decision.

Actually...

Just priced MCO to LAX on Delta.com.

It seems they do show the initial pricing schematic to include taxes/fees (the required ones.

IT also seems they do indeed know at the time of your search if the flight that you are being shown is a non-stop, 1 -stop, etc...and they know exactly where it will be stopping and the price adjusted accordingly.

So it isn't impossible--flights already do this and this argument has been all for nuttin'.

I selected my route....
The got this message for my roundtrip:

Avoid direct ticketing charges and online booking fees. Prices shown include all taxes and fees. Additional baggage charges may apply

Interesting....

 

[bettymae1121]

I worry that the extra charge for the exit rows could compromise safety. the people in the exit row must be able to perform the duties of opening the door and whatever else (deploying a chute, etc.). What happens if a person buys the exit row but really isn't up to helping in an emergency? Is is profit over safety?

It's FAA policy that only people that are able to help in an emergency can sit in an exit row. The flight attendants now go to the people in the exit rows and advise them of this and ask that they let the flight attendant know if anyone feels like they can't help. Now, they have to trust that people are being honest, short of having a limb in a cast there is no way to know for sure, but that's no different than any other time in aviation history. If it turns out that a person that pays the fee can't help, then the flight attendant will switch them with another passenger who can. I'm not sure if the fee would be refunded, I would guess that would depend on the airline's policy. Plus if they switch said person with another person in the premium seating area, it would be as big an issue because a fee would have been due in any case.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

They = the airline's website

They don't know what a specific passenger's total PFC will be until that passenger selects an itinerary. Nonstop? No problem. It's whatever the MCO PFC is. Make a planned stop anywhere? Additional, variable depending on the specific midpoint airport, PFC needs to be added to the expected fare. Two stops/changes? Still higher total PFC.

So, a $54 fare's Passenger Facility Charges can be as low as $3, or as high as $13.50 (or more, if more stops required). The software just can't tell until the passenger chooses an itinerary.

I just priced a Delta flight on their website.

What you have posted is inaccurate. They actually include the information when they show you the various route options.

I don't have time to play on other airlines--

I only did this to try to prove the thesis that was stated. And it disproved it at least for Delta.

So we know it isn't "impossible". It is possible. An airline may just choose not to include that information.

The software worked fine for me.

 

[bettymae1121]

His point is that Southwest has no trouble including these.

So if you say--show me all flights from MCO to Chicago--it will show all options. Some slots will be pricier than others either due to high demand time frame or connections.

The premise that it is impossible, is simply a priority of the airline to choose not to to do full disclosure pricing from the first search for flights. Granted, you'll know all the taxes and fees by the time you are done. But it isn't impossible to include it throughout the process.

It is only impossible b/c most airlines have made that decision.

Actually...

Just priced MCO to LAX on Delta.com.

It seems they do show the initial pricing schematic to include taxes/fees (the required ones.

IT also seems they do indeed know at the time of your search if the flight that you are being shown is a non-stop, 1 -stop, etc...and they know exactly where it will be stopping and the price adjusted accordingly.

So it isn't impossible--flights already do this and this argument has been all for nuttin'.

I selected my route....
The got this message for my roundtrip:



Interesting....

Online, sure they can (and sometimes do) includ it, but online isn't the only place airlines advertise. They still run ads on tv, radio, and newspapers. Not possible in those ads.

 

[kaytieeldr]

and 7.5% tax and the landing fee. 20 years ago, a $149 advertised fare meant $149 was charged to your CC when you bought the ticket. Now that means that $184 (or some such amount) is charged to your card for the base fare.

One of the old (1997) print ads on Southwest's website shows $59 from Fort Lauderdale to Orlando or Tampa or Jacksonville not including $3 airport tax. http://www.southwest.com/about_swa/netads.html#print and click on The Florida State Fare link.

By the way, the Wanna Get Away Fare for the same trip for May 4, 2010 is $54 each way... plus $10.70 each way in taxes & fees: a segment fee of $3.70, the $4.50 PFC, and the $2.50 government-imposed security fee. Oh, and with the inflation rate over the last twelve years, $59 then is worth $79+ now.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Have you seen the Southwest commercials? They seem to really love luggage.

Not at all. They know their passengers love luggage.

 

[hereyago]

I think I may stop flying if they start to charge for using the seatbelts-lol. it is getting too ridiculous.

 

[kaytieeldr]

You realize that they know where the flight will be landing all along the route before they sell you the ticket, right? When they advertise a fare, any stopovers are included in that fare.

No. The Passenger Facility Charges for the intervening airports CANNOT be included until the customer selects a final itinerary. Plain and simple. The software can't 'predict' what routing the passenger will choose, and so simply CAN'T tell the passenger in advance what the final fare will be.