Continental flight traps 47 in Rochester, MN

[dudspizza]

http://www.terrytrippler.com/ Click play to listen to Terry Triplers view.

Sunday, August 9, 2009

Continental flight traps 47 in Rochester; Houston to MSP takes more than 13 hours


"Abundant rain fell on the Twin Cities Friday night from thunderstorms that have been noticeably absent most of the summer. This welcome soaking became a nightmare for 47 people en-route to the Twin Cities from Houston on Continental Airlines flight 2816, operated by ExpressJet Airlines.
The aircraft departed Houston at 9:30 p.m. and was scheduled for an 11:54 p.m. arrival at Minneapolis/St. Paul. Due to the thunderstorms the aircraft, an Embraer RJ145, diverted to Rochester. The RJ145 seats 50 passengers with one seat on the left side, a middle aisle, and two seats on the right side. It is known as a cramped regional jet with minimal overhead storage space and has one lavatory in the rear. Houston to Minneapolis/St. Paul is one of the longer routes flown with the aircraft by Continental.

When the Star Tribune contacted Continental about the flight delay they were referred to ExpressJet directly. Continental contracts with ExpressJet to operate the service but from the passenger's perspective everything about the flight screamed 'Continental', from check-in to boarding, in-flight and all of the ticketing and checked baggage receipts.

By the time the diverted flight arrived in Rochester the airport terminal was closed. There were no services available including security screening, so the passengers had to remain on the aircraft. As time wore on the cockpit crew had used all of their legal duty time, so they were unavailable to fly the aircraft to MSP from Rochester. Another crew had to be flown in to bring the aircraft less than 100 miles.

There was no food available on the flight other than a bag of pretzels for each passenger and the smell of the aircraft lavatory deteriorated as the aircraft sat, and sat, and sat. At 6 a.m. the cabin door was opened and the passengers were permitted into the airline terminal. The time on the ground had been nearly six hours. Finally, at 9:30 a.m. the flight was re-boarded and arrived in the Twin Cities at 11 a.m.

It is not known why a charter bus wasn't considered to transport the passengers to MSP.

 

[dudspizza]

Just read this... found it interesting!

"The Rochester airport took in another diverted flight, a Northwest plane from Phoenix, just before Flight 2816 landed. The more than 50 passengers on that plane were placed on a bus and made it to Minneapolis by 1:30 a.m.

Leqve said the Delta manager in Rochester offered space on the bus to Continental, which declined."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_nightmare_flight

 

[Pappa Bear]

Just read this... found it interesting!

"The Rochester airport took in another diverted flight, a Northwest plane from Phoenix, just before Flight 2816 landed. The more than 50 passengers on that plane were placed on a bus and made it to Minneapolis by 1:30 a.m.

Leqve said the Delta manager in Rochester offered space on the bus to Continental, which declined."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_nightmare_flight

Here's a comprehensive report on this whole sorry affair.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32361238/ns/travel-news/?gt1=43001

It is an incredible story.

 

[truck1]

I agree that it was a situation that never should have gone that far,but I would like to point out, that it was not a Continental Plane, it was a ExpressJet plane which was using a code sharing agreement with Continental. Continental has pretty much distanced themselves from the fiasco.

 

[P.I. Squirrel]

I agree that it was a situation that never should have gone that far,but I would like to point out, that it was not a Continental Plane, it was a ExpressJet plane which was using a code sharing agreement with Continental. Continental has pretty much distanced themselves from the fiasco.

IMO, that's not an excuse. Even if code sharing, if you fly under the Continental logo, Continental should be held responsible.

I was stranded on an overbooked Northwest flight out of Jackson for 90 minutes last March. They had put 'too much fuel on the plane', meaning they were too heavy for takeoff. Safety aside, the airline offered no apologies or attempts to ease frustrated passengers. They only gave us the 'code sharing' excuse, so to them it was not their responsibility. Well, you got a Northwest paint job on the plane.

It's just plain wrong to me that the airlines bear no punishment for holding these passengers prisoner for 9 hours, but if one of these passengers stood up and expressed their anger, it's a federal crime.

 

[kisobel]

this would be my worst nightmare. i have mild claustrophobia and i can manage it on plane rides. but if they trapped me in the plane and wouldnt let me out. i think i would be on the next no fly list for the fit i would throw. seriously i am thinking about asking my doctor for an emergency anxiety pill just in case something like this happens. i feel so bad for these people.


kate

 

[DisneyWalker44]

but I would like to point out, that it was not a Continental Plane, it was a ExpressJet plane which was using a code sharing agreement with Continental. Continental has pretty much distanced themselves from the fiasco.

Those passengers bought Continental tickets and were on a plane that said Continental in big letters. I don't give a monkey's behind what sort of legal subcontractural arrangement Continental had, THAT WAS A CONTINENTAL PLANE.

Continental is going to pay for this abuse. And, hopefully, we'll now be one step closer to getting a legal passenger bill of rights.

 

[Alexander]

How would this have been handled should there have been a diabetic on the plane, or an infant that needed specialized formula (I had two of these)? I also have a child who has Celiac Disease and other food allergies and has to eat a specialized diet. What would have happened? What about a pregnant woman who couldn't possibly sit for that long? Was there anyway a passenger could have chosen to get off the plane and chosen to not get back on--since that is what Express Jet is claiming would have happened--which as we know is a big ol' line of BS. What about those claustrophobic passengers? What would have happened?

 

[truck1]

http://www.terrytrippler.com/ Click play to listen to Terry Triplers view.

Sunday, August 9, 2009

Continental flight traps 47 in Rochester; Houston to MSP takes more than 13 hours


"Abundant rain fell on the Twin Cities Friday night from thunderstorms that have been noticeably absent most of the summer. This welcome soaking became a nightmare for 47 people en-route to the Twin Cities from Houston on Continental Airlines flight 2816, operated by ExpressJet Airlines.
The aircraft departed Houston at 9:30 p.m. and was scheduled for an 11:54 p.m. arrival at Minneapolis/St. Paul. Due to the thunderstorms the aircraft, an Embraer RJ145, diverted to Rochester. The RJ145 seats 50 passengers with one seat on the left side, a middle aisle, and two seats on the right side. It is known as a cramped regional jet with minimal overhead storage space and has one lavatory in the rear. Houston to Minneapolis/St. Paul is one of the longer routes flown with the aircraft by Continental.

When the Star Tribune contacted Continental about the flight delay they were referred to ExpressJet directly. Continental contracts with ExpressJet to operate the service but from the passenger's perspective everything about the flight screamed 'Continental', from check-in to boarding, in-flight and all of the ticketing and checked baggage receipts.

By the time the diverted flight arrived in Rochester the airport terminal was closed. There were no services available including security screening, so the passengers had to remain on the aircraft. As time wore on the cockpit crew had used all of their legal duty time, so they were unavailable to fly the aircraft to MSP from Rochester. Another crew had to be flown in to bring the aircraft less than 100 miles.

There was no food available on the flight other than a bag of pretzels for each passenger and the smell of the aircraft lavatory deteriorated as the aircraft sat, and sat, and sat. At 6 a.m. the cabin door was opened and the passengers were permitted into the airline terminal. The time on the ground had been nearly six hours. Finally, at 9:30 a.m. the flight was re-boarded and arrived in the Twin Cities at 11 a.m.

It is not known why a charter bus wasn't considered to transport the passengers to MSP.

My underline and bold. I know what the tix are say.At some point it possibly and I stress possibly says operated by Expressjet.(Ive seen it on Delta tix online and the hard copy coming back from Atlanta and NC)Expressjet benefits from Continentals name, and operates in relative obscurity.Until something like this comes along.

IMO, that's not an excuse. Even if code sharing, if you fly under the Continental logo, Continental should be held responsible.


I was stranded on an overbooked Northwest flight out of Jackson for 90 minutes last March. They had put 'too much fuel on the plane', meaning they were too heavy for takeoff. Safety aside, the airline offered no apologies or attempts to ease frustrated passengers. They only gave us the 'code sharing' excuse, so to them it was not their responsibility. Well, you got a Northwest paint job on the plane.

It's just plain wrong to me that the airlines bear no punishment for holding these passengers prisoner for 9 hours, but if one of these passengers stood up and expressed their anger, it's a federal crime.

In this case there was no excuse, as to why the plane could not have been serviced at a gate or hardstand.The station manager (person in charge of that airlines operations and planes) made a lot of bad calls and is probably on there way to the unemployment line.

Heres the thing with code sharing and partnering.The larger carrier lends its name and logos etc to a smaller airline, that benefits both parties.Unfortunately, the larger airline gets the flack when something goes wrong with the smaller line. Even though they dont own the equipment.
Its the same situation with the Disney Cruise Line busses, and the Disney Magical Express busses.Disneys name is on the side, but Mears Transportation owns and operates them. All the ticketing, logos etc are owned by Disney, and there are some rules built into the contract, but in reality, Mears does what they want with the busses.
Couple of months ago one of the DCL busses caught fire on the Beachline between the PC and the airport. The news ran it as "Disney bus catches fire on Beachline". Disney got the bad publicity and Mears got a new bus.

Those passengers bought Continental tickets and were on a plane that said Continental in big letters. I don't give a monkey's behind what sort of legal subcontractural arrangement Continental had, THAT WAS A CONTINENTAL PLANE.

Continental is going to pay for this abuse. And, hopefully, we'll now be one step closer to getting a legal passenger bill of rights.

Do we need a Pax BOR? I think so. But in this case the plane says Continental Expressjet, which is a separate airline. Even though Cont. has no stake except its name, they (Continental) already have given full refunds and extreme discounts to the pax onboard for future flights.

"Continental Airlines on Monday deferred most questions to ExpressJet Airlines, the regional carrier that operated the flight. But Continental did issue an apology to passengers, calling it "completely unacceptable" and offering refunds and vouchers for future travel."

That was last night at 9pm.

How would this have been handled should there have been a diabetic on the plane, or an infant that needed specialized formula (I had two of these)? I also have a child who has Celiac Disease and other food allergies and has to eat a specialized diet. What would have happened? What about a pregnant woman who couldn't possibly sit for that long? Was there anyway a passenger could have chosen to get off the plane and chosen to not get back on--since that is what Express Jet is claiming would have happened--which as we know is a big ol' line of BS. What about those claustrophobic passengers? What would have happened?

All depends on the flight crew, and if there was a ground crew available to do something with the aircraft. If there was no one to park the aircraft, in other words bring it to the gate, and put a jetway next to the plane, and open the door, its any ones guess. My sister works for Delta and told me one day that a plane had been parked by the ground crews, and no one told the gate operators that the plane was parked. She had walked past the window, saw the plane and the note that the pilots were holding up saying "Help.Please open the door"(Aircraft doors can usually be opend from the outside)She caught a lot of flack and 4 lettered comments about the issue,from irate passengers, and it wasnt even her fault or gate. She was unlucky enough to put the jetway next to the plane, and open the door.

In reality, again there was no excuse in the world, on why the plane was not brought to a hardstand or gate, and at least had lavatory service done to it.The only possible excuse, and I am not sure of the timing, would be if there was no one available on the ground to handle it. (Aircraft marshallers, lavatory truck drivers, someone to put the jetway next to the plane etc)
Since another plane landed about the same time, and the pax were put on a bus, and Expressjet turned down the bus and hotels, it falls to the station manager from the airport.

If there was a medical issue on board, say for argument sake a diabetic onbard, that would require insulin, or a specialized meal. The flight crew would call and advise the station manager and arrangements would need to be made. If he/she fails, and things get worse with the diabetic person, an ambulance can be called by the control tower, whom the aircraft apparently was talking to.
As far as a claustrophobic passenger, it depends on their situation.Some of the more"Active"(who probably never would have gotten on the plane to begin with) would probably get arrested, since the flight crew would only know that the person freaked out.(sad but probably true.)The more passive, prob would not make a difference in this situation, but may with a differnt person in charge.

As far as passengers popping the doors, and walking to the terminal, theyd be arrested within minutes of thier feet hitting the tarmac, and charged with several federal offenses, ranging from tampering with an aircraft, to being in a restricted area.Along with interfereing with a flight crew.

 

[DisneyWalker44]

Unfortunately, the larger airline gets the flack when something goes wrong with the smaller line. Even though they dont own the equipment.

Of course the larger airline gets the flack - they are the ones that turned their resonsibility over to the smaller airline.

I'm stunned anyone would defend Continental here. If I hire/pay Continental to fly me from point A to point B, and then Continental hires incompetent fools to do the job for them, THAT DOESN'T LET CONTINENTAL OFF THE HOOK.

Do we need a Pax BOR? I think so.

You think? Is there really doubt in your mind as to whether airlines should be able to hold passengers locked in a plane for more than 3 hours?

Even though Cont. has no stake except its name,

No stake? They took the passengers money and they hired ExpressJet.

they (Continental) already have given full refunds and extreme discounts to the pax onboard for future flights.

They kept passengers virtual prisoners overnight on a cramped plane with limited food water and a single overflowing toilet. But, hey, they didn't charge them for the flight and offered them some coupons. That make it OK in your mind?

As far as passengers popping the doors, and walking to the terminal, theyd be arrested within minutes of thier feet hitting the tarmac, and charged with several federal offenses, ranging from tampering with an aircraft, to being in a restricted area.Along with interfereing with a flight crew.

Something is very, very wrong when an airline can lock up passengers in a miserable conditions, and the *passengers* would be the ones arrested for leaving.

The one good thing is that we may now *finally* get a bill of rights to prevent this from happening in the future.

 

[P.I. Squirrel]

The one good thing is that we may now *finally* get a bill of rights to prevent this from happening in the future.

Or, at least, people like us get fed up enough to force Continental out of business if their service doesn't improve.

And one more thing, I hold Disney/Mears to the same standard. I don't care if Mears is a contractor, I paid Disney to take me from the parks to the port. If Mears messes it up, I hold Disney accountable.

Here is a better analogy. Since when has a grocery store manufactured it's own generic products. They never have. So, if 500 people are sickened from tainted generic milk, do you say 'Well, it wasn't the grocer's fault."? Of course it may not have been, but the grocer is held just as accountable as the supplier.

It is accountability, pure and simple. If Continental doesn't own up to ExpressJet's mistake, and assume accountability for it, then I choose not to fly Continental.

 

[Alexander]

No, sorry I agree, Continental is liable here. I really am anxious to see how this is going to play out. Class action lawsuits, etc. I think we're going to see Continental in serious financial troubles. Remember it was a Continental plane that crashed in Buffalo, NY in February. Findings were pilot error and inexperience. There is a lawsuit already filed in that crash. I don't think Continental has a leg to stand on here.

I understand this incident was under ExpressJet, but seriously, if something bad happen while riding in a taxi cab, who is liable? The driver or the cab company? Who was liable for serving that woman too hot coffee at McDonalds? The server or McDonalds? It seems that the precedent has been set and Continental will ultimately being the ones in trouble here. They have already tried to fix things by offering free tickets, etc. That to me says that they feel some of the blame is with them. In the legal world, it also looks like guilt.

 

[seashoreCM]

If the airlines offer decent compensation and then put the case behind them and go about their usual business then we would not need a passenger bill of rights.

I would want to say that compensation need not include indirect consequential damages such as missing out on a stock deal but the airline should appeal so as to cause dismissal of such consequences as contempt for not showing up in court or court martial for being late to one's troopship.

Management would have a lot of the responsibility (including at McDonalds) when there are work rules that prevent the visible employees from helping the customers for fear of being disciplined.

By the way, who and how many would have gotten into trouble if the flight attendant opened the door and stood aside (provided there was a set of steps built into the door as I take it most small planes have)?

Disney hints: http://www.cockam.com/disney.htm

 

[ncmickeyluvr]

My husband's Delta flight sat on the tarmack at Milwaukee for 7 hours back in June because of weather delays. He had to connect in Detroit and run for his flight..he literally ran from plane to plane. Then the plane from Detroit sat in Charlotte for 2 hrs before they could unload because they only had one gate open and all of the delayed planes from the bad weather had to wait in line. Needless to say, DH was not a happy camper. A Fliers Bill of Rights is very necessary!

 

[vod2117]

Continental is probrably one of the worst airlines out there, especially the SkyTeam affiliates. Delayed flights, old planes; they are the worst airline.

 

[bavaria]

How would this have been handled should there have been a diabetic on the plane, or an infant that needed specialized formula (I had two of these)? I also have a child who has Celiac Disease and other food allergies and has to eat a specialized diet. What would have happened? What about a pregnant woman who couldn't possibly sit for that long? Was there anyway a passenger could have chosen to get off the plane and chosen to not get back on--since that is what Express Jet is claiming would have happened--which as we know is a big ol' line of BS. What about those claustrophobic passengers? What would have happened?

That did happen to me recently - after 7 hours on the tarmac the captain very reluctantly allowed me to deplane to have my medical crisis on the jetway rather than on board, as he didn't want the other passengers demanding to deplane too. Very generous of him. The ramp workers were however wonderful.

The airline did serve food, but continued to charge passengers the buy on board price and did not distribute it free of charge.

There was zero compensation - it was a weather delay.

 

[NLD]

This stuff scares me. Not sure how I'd handle seven hours just sitting on a plane... both dh and I have "invisible" challenges (for lack of a better word), and it would be really really tough to sit locked in a plane that long.

Does anyone have ideas for coping, in case this happens? Someone mentioned getting doc to prescribe an anxiety pill just in case--as much as I dislike psych meds, that's sounding like an idea--but what about if you have a kid with you? Can't afford to be "out of it" with a child. So does anyone have other ideas?

 

[bavaria]

I advise against using drugs or alcohol as it can make you behave differently or at worst cause a death. A family friend took drugs to 'calm herself' before a flight and died recently, and it just reinforces my belief. And there are many reports of Ambien for instance causing 'sleep urination' where people crouch and urinate in the aisle of a plane, half asleep.

The best thing to do is to isolate yourself and divert your attention. An iPod with a 'plane music' playlist works well, so keep it fully charged (I take my 80gb and a Shuffle, both fully charged, which lasts me about 20 hours) Always have a snack and your OWN bottle of water when you board - never rely on the flight crew for a drink even though many here counsel doing that and not spending 'airport prices' for beverages. That is a great example of how trying to save a few pennies can end in misery.

Always bring a change of undies, wipes, etc and whatever else you need to freshen up. Clean underwear can seriously change your mood.

The reality is that 7 hours isn't that long - some long haul flights are 12 hours or more, and 7 hours is actually an extremely short flying day for me. Plus the airline doesn't announce a 7 hour delay - it just extends and minutes tick by. Don't focus on the time, just relax, stay calm, and DON'T behave like some people here threaten to do from time to time. Not only do you risk being removed from the aircraft, you may be prohibited from flying that day, or ever again on that airline.

In my case the pilot did go down the aisles telling people as much as he knew. There was a shrieking banshee behind me who was trying to incite a riot on the plane, and was using foul language. I moved across the aisle to get away from her, but she was dangerously close to finding herself in a very bad situation - the crew were discussing what to do with her.

And unlike many people here, I did not get upset nor did I ask for or expect compensation. Weather happens, and nobody can control that. Sometimes weather shuts down an airport for a day or more, and the reality is that it can take days for an airline to recover from that. They do their best, although many people here don't want to believe that.

No airline wants this to happen, and as the delay extends the crew may go 'illegal' and a new crew needs to be found. The delay ripples through the system, creating issues at other airports. It is not something any airline wants to see happen, but sometimes it does happen, despite the best of plans and intentions.

 

[dudspizza]

I advise against using drugs or alcohol as it can make you behave differently or at worst cause a death. A family friend took drugs to 'calm herself' before a flight and died recently, and it just reinforces my belief. And there are many reports of Ambien for instance causing 'sleep urination' where people crouch and urinate in the aisle of a plane, half asleep.

The best thing to do is to isolate yourself and divert your attention. An iPod with a 'plane music' playlist works well, so keep it fully charged (I take my 80gb and a Shuffle, both fully charged, which lasts me about 20 hours) Always have a snack and your OWN bottle of water when you board - never rely on the flight crew for a drink even though many here counsel doing that and not spending 'airport prices' for beverages. That is a great example of how trying to save a few pennies can end in misery.

Always bring a change of undies, wipes, etc and whatever else you need to freshen up. Clean underwear can seriously change your mood.

The reality is that 7 hours isn't that long - some long haul flights are 12 hours or more, and 7 hours is actually an extremely short flying day for me. Plus the airline doesn't announce a 7 hour delay - it just extends and minutes tick by. Don't focus on the time, just relax, stay calm, and DON'T behave like some people here threaten to do from time to time. Not only do you risk being removed from the aircraft, you may be prohibited from flying that day, or ever again on that airline.

In my case the pilot did go down the aisles telling people as much as he knew. There was a shrieking banshee behind me who was trying to incite a riot on the plane, and was using foul language. I moved across the aisle to get away from her, but she was dangerously close to finding herself in a very bad situation - the crew were discussing what to do with her.

And unlike many people here, I did not get upset nor did I ask for or expect compensation. Weather happens, and nobody can control that. Sometimes weather shuts down an airport for a day or more, and the reality is that it can take days for an airline to recover from that. They do their best, although many people here don't want to believe that.

No airline wants this to happen, and as the delay extends the crew may go 'illegal' and a new crew needs to be found. The delay ripples through the system, creating issues at other airports. It is not something any airline wants to see happen, but sometimes it does happen, despite the best of plans and intentions.

Very well stated.

I sat on a plane in MSP for 3.5 hours or so while they tried to fix a broken/frozen hatch (it was January after all). The 3.5 hours wasn't really that long. I had my iPod on, closed my eyes and just relaxed knowing that there wasn't anything I could do. After 3.5 hours we were finally deplaned as they could not fix the aircraft and I had to find another flight that day. Luckily, I was wrote over to a NWA flight (original was US Airways) and departed about 7+ hours later. I finally arrived at my destination.

All you can do is relax and you will get through things.

Duds

 

[NLD]

Thank you bavaria.... it's not having to SIT for seven hours or even the discomfort of one bathroom or anything, it's the psychology being stuck on there with a bunch of other people. We can drive 10 hours straight no problem, so it's not that... it's just the being stuck and it being out of my control thing.

I have dismissed the idea of a benzo, I work in mental health and understand the risks of psych meds, Ambien, etc... with our daughter present it is just not an option.

Actually I'm grateful for this thread and discussion b/c just preparing ahead for the possibility, mentally, I think will help if the worst WERE to happen.

Oddly enough I am good in a crisis and get very very calm if there's something really wrong, like a death or someone needing medical help or whatever.... not so good with inaction, being in limbo, losing autonomy. LOL

Maybe practice deep breathing techniques and bring some books. And thank you for the change of clothes/undies idea, that is so true and something I hadn't thought of.

Guess we'll bring nicotine patches too, since haven't broken that habit yet, and no one wants to deal with us after ten hours of no nicotine.