Completely random question about Italian restaurants....in general?

[Disnsyncey]

I know there is the thread that is asking "which Italian is best in WDW?" but after you decide, I have a question about it.....

I live in FL, we're not really known for our Italian food obviously.....more like seafood (booo to a red lobster on the coast....but that's another discussion).....I hear about all of these great areas for Italian food (NYC, Chicago, etc...).....and since the last non chain Italian restaurant I ate in was TERRIBLE (they were actually from Italy, I don't know what went wrong there), I have a question.......when somebody says "good Italian food", what does it mean? How does that "good" Italian food measure up to a "GOOD Italian restaurant" in Italy?

I was tempted to just assume that because of the prices and the entree descriptions that Tutto Italia would seem the MOST like real Italy, but.....I don't think I'm making any sense anymore.....

P.S. I have sort of asked this before in the depths of a thread, just wondering what all ya'll think.....

 

[ShannonMB]

I'm no Italian expert, never been to Italy, my family is not Italian, etc. But to me, a good place would automatically have to make their own pasta, and you would be able to tell. That alone sells me!

 

[DVC California]

It really depends on what you grew up thinking was good "Italian" food. For some it might be the linguini with clam sauce or perhaps a simple "macaroni and gravy", or maybe how light the meatballs were.

I usually make my first impression with the bread. If they serve good bread, that's a good start to a meal. If the bread is stale or tasteless, yuck!

If it's on the menu, I also judge the restaurant on how good their Clams Casino are.

 

[FireDancer]

The first problem is that there is no single “Italian” restaurant. I’ve been throughout most of Italy and an Italian restaurant in Venice will be mostly fish, one in Emilia-Romagna will be more pasta and ham, and any decent restaurant in Verona will serve horse. In my travels I have to say that Tuscan food is my favorite.

Since Florence, much like Rome, suffers from the unfortunate problem of molding menus to tourists I find the best Italian food is found in the smaller cities around Tuscany. Meals are served in multiple small portions. I will put an example of my dinner at a small restaurant in Siena which was by far the best meal I had in Italy. Each portion was small enough to easily cup in my hands. The biggest difference between “real” Italian food and the Americanized stuff is that nowhere over there was anything drowned in cups of sauces that covered the natural flavors. Other cities that had great food were Colle di Val d’Elsa, Montepulciano, and Pienza. I also loved the food in Venice but I am a fish eater. Much of the fish served in the evenings was caught in the morning.

Our Sienese dinner at Due Porte:
On the table when we arrived was melon and ham, bread, and assorted fruit.
The first course was a vegetable stew in beef broth
Next came a small plate of pasta in a tomato and olive oil sauce
Then there was a serving of mushroom and gnocci
Then came a dish with a portion of beef and pork
There was a break while we had a nice glass of Chianti Classico
Finally a small dessert plate was served with 1000 layer cake, fruit, and Tiramisu

 

[RMulieri]

Being an italian-American I can tell you that authentic italian is very hard to come by in the US, what many consider italian is actually Americanized italian.Even regions of Italy have adjusted some of their regional cooking to please the touring masses.I hardly ever eat italian out, and if I do it is the americanized version of it.But I can tell you when I make traditional italian I use all fresh ingredients(no canned,jarred anything) I also make pasta( if I serve it) from scratch.

 

[Strangeite]

I agree with the previous posters that it depends on your definition of "Italian" food. The above poster gives a good outline of the various regional differences. There is nothing wrong with American-Italian food, in fact it is quite good, but that doesn't make it necessarily authentic. In my travels the only two authentic Italian restaurants that I have found were in New York City and Pierre, South Dakota (don't ask me, I really don't understand it either). While in a very small village in Italy I was told by my hostess that much of this stems from the fact that tomatoes are native to the Americas, and so deep rich historical dishes obviously would not contain any tomatoes. But to most Americans tomatoe sauce IS Italian food.

As for American-Italian food, my favorite is actually run by a family from Armenia. Go figure.

 

[Sleepy]

Not only is authentic Italian food regional, but within the regions, it is as varied as one would compare fried chicken in America. Everyone starts with the same ingredients, but the dish is going to taste different depending on who is cooking it. I've had some really good and really bad carbonara around here. Some is creamy and others is like a dish of oily noodles. The main thing is focusing on the sauce. Americanized sauce is really thick and rich pastiness. Sauce over here is not pasty. It barely colors the pasta because as has already been mentioned, comes in light quantity. Here, the meat sauce (ragu) is more meat based in flavor. Sort of like eating roast beef with tomato juice. Again, there is no pastiness. It barely colors the pasta. You should be able to see every little fleck of carrots, onions, etc.

Types of pastas come from different regions as does types of breads. If a restaurant in America claims to cook based on a certain region of Italy, it is apparent based on the pastas. You won't find lasagna, tortellini, ravioli, etc in my region. We mainly consume penne, spaghetti, and the more flat pastas. Oh, and if you get a lasagna in Italy, it will be thin with barely any cheese. A good loaf of bread should have a tough exterior and very dense interior.

One sure way to tell the "authenticity" of the Italian restaurant is to see how they cook their pizza (if they serve it). Wood oven, non-twirled dough, very little bland tomato sauce, fresh basil leaf, and a dab of buffalo mozzerella. Most Americans would call that trash pizza, but that is about as authentic as you can get, since pizza was invented where I live .

The sign of an authentic Italian restaurant has nothing to do with the origin of the pasta or the bread. Very few places here make their own. Heck, not many households make their own. Families even *gasp* buy jarred spaghetti sauce to make dinner .

 

[Sleepy]

I was tempted to just assume that because of the prices and the entree descriptions that Tutto Italia would seem the MOST like real Italy, but.....I don't think I'm making any sense anymore.....

You are making sense. Actually, what you need to keep in mind is that even though it may be true Italians from Italy cooking the dishes, the recipes are tweaked to what American tastebuds and eyes can tolerate. Americans are not accustomed to eating a seafood dish where the heads and tails are stilll attached. Italians don't put butter on bread and they don't have salt shakers on the tables. They don't dip their garlic bread in marinara sauce (there is no garlic bread).

For many desperate to experience authentic, they could be served just about anything because authentic is so different from what Americans would accept, and true authentic is far off from what most Americans think is authentic. Did you know spaghetti sauce in my region tastes like stewed tomatoes? You get what I am saying? Again, remember that those who work in that restaurant are probably from many parts of Italy. You are also dealing with mostly young people too. Young Italians are like young Americans. The last thing they are worried about is their cooking skills. Those factors combined, it is probably not going to net you what you are hoping for.

As far as pricing. It is complicated. You are dealing with a tourist trap (WDW). Even here in Italy, a restaurant in downtown Rome is going to be more expensive than the ones in the outskirts. Price has nothing to do with real authentic food. Just for comparisons sake, I can get an order of spaghetti and meat sauce for about 6 Euro. The portion (along with bread and a shared appetizer) is more than enough to eat.

Entree descriptions. Ahhh...i've had more than my share of laughs. They make it sound so...........exotic....don't they? The Lasagna al "Forno"......forno is translated "oven". Exotic huh? Exactly how else would one make lasagna????? It is made with MEAT RAGU. Ummmm yeah, the definition of ragu is tomato sauce with meat. Then, there is Tagliatelle Egg Pasta - Made with meat ragu bolognese. Remember when I mentioned what ragu was? Well, if you want to order a dish that has a meat sauce (ragu), you tell them "bolognese" which means you want meat sauce. Fagiolini beans.......fagioli means beans. Basically what I am saying is they make their description sound like it is more than it is by using English and Italian words. Also, around here, if you ask for a "caprese", you are going to get sliced tomatoes, buffalo mozzarella, and basil with olive oil. Knowing what the real stuff is, I would hesitate to order the Penne "Caprese".
Personally, I would never pay that much for an "authentic" dish in a tourist trap. I'd rent a car and take my chances on a place out in town.

 

[Disnsyncey]

good thoughts I see.....

Sleepy, I was wondering how you had to good descriptions, and then I saw you're in Naples! So cool, cuz I lived in Salerno for 2 years (05-07) and I have been scared to go out to eat for Italian since I've been back! The last time I checked the Tutto menu, it was the first place where I felt that I could order normal things instead of trying to translate things in my head to the Italian words I want my food to be....

and about native Italians cooking the food doesn't make it good.....I met somebody whose relative had an Italian restaurant in the area that my family lives nowadays.....they warned me that it was a terrible restaurant, but a couple months after I got back, I saw a restaurant called "Salerno Ristorante" with the purple(ish) icon of the Salernitani, and I figured that it was the restaurant in question, and I took my parents......it was TERRIBLE, and had no regional tastes to Campagna, even though my parents enjoyed what they had.....

The handful of restaurants that I enjoy the most are: in Salerno, Il Caminetto; in Firenze, Il Gatto e Volpe and Za Za's (obviously touristy); and in Torino, (I found it during the Olympics) The Frog.........I have quite a few dishes that I like from the different areas, but I guess if a restaurant claimed to have good Papparadelle alla chingiale, I would assume it should be influenced from the region that specializes in it (I would assume Tuscany and/or north, I don't know seeing that I was in the south for 2 years)......

but I guess the consensus is that its all dependent upon the person eating it and the fact that most Italian food has been americanized, so all you can hope is it tastes good....

oh, and about caprese (did you know my friend tried to order the turkey caprese sandwich at the Panera bread restaurant here and they corrected her saying "you mean turkey Cuh-preeece?" haha) I don't like whole tomatoes, but for the wonderfulness that is the caprese (and specific restaurants' bruschetta) I will gladly eat it......

and pizza.....I was warned that I would be weirded out by the pizza in Italy, but coming back here, I am slightly grossed out by American pizza (along with cafe, but you get my drift).....the diavola is my fav

but Tutto Italia.....least americanized? yes?

 

[gatordoc]

Well, from my perspective (all four grandparents born and raised in Italy, though in different regions), there most basic principle is that everything should be fresh, and if it's not, it shouldn't be served. Generally, the fewer ingredients the better (so that you can actually taste them). Many courses, but portion sizes not too large. Meat is more of a condiment than a main course. Desserts are mainly fruit and nut based (if not just fruit and/or nuts). And then one strange twist, which I have become convinced is just something peculiar to the area of Italy where my maternal grandparents are from, I grew up having the salad AFTER the meal (but before dessert). And I wasn't aware of a thing called salad dressing for years - it was always just dressed with oil and vinegar, and perhaps salt. I've never been anywhere else outside my family, whether a home or a restaurant, where that is the sequence of the meal.

 

[Disnsyncey]

And then one strange twist, which I have become convinced is just something peculiar to the area of Italy where my maternal grandparents are from, I grew up having the salad AFTER the meal (but before dessert). And I wasn't aware of a thing called salad dressing for years - it was always just dressed with oil and vinegar, and perhaps salt. I've never been anywhere else outside my family, whether a home or a restaurant, where that is the sequence of the meal.

strange as it sounds, the salad last helps (they say, and I've found) digest your food.....finish it off with some limoncello and its AMAZING......

are they from the south? I know that was the norm where I lived......

 

[DaniTaylor]

I love this thread! I've never been to Italy but hopefully that will change in the future but my family is Italian but each part of my heritage is from a different region.

I cook a lot, my mom, sister, grandmother, in-laws (also Italian) all cook a lot and some really great stuff. I consider myself a bit of a foodie so when I want to go for good Italian food (not necessarily authentic, just delicious) I go to places that use fresh ingredients, not that I have anything against jar sauces but I can open a jar at home and I do try to find places that seem less Americanized but it's just a preference, it's a matter of taste, a matter of what you grew up with and what you are used to eating.

 

[gatordoc]

strange as it sounds, the salad last helps (they say, and I've found) digest your food.....finish it off with some limoncello and its AMAZING......

are they from the south? I know that was the norm where I lived......

Yup. Maybe it is a southern thing, then...interesting. Expresso with anisette to finish, though

 

[Disnsyncey]

Yup. Maybe it is a southern thing, then...interesting. Expresso with anisette to finish, though

hmmm wow, I totally thought it was all across Italy! The only things I have picked up from outside of Campagna pertaining to meal tendencies was that the salt tax way back made Tuscan bread w/o salt.....but we can just salt it before we eat it....

I should probably go try these restaurants (I've never actually considered Il Mulino, I should go look at the menu, anybody have experiences?) to compare them to the tastes I have become accustomed to.....

 

[Disnsyncey]

Yup. Maybe it is a southern thing, then...interesting. Expresso with anisette to finish, though

oh, and goes to show you how different things are, I've never heard of an anisette (I had to look it up, sambucca, I have heard of, but never seen)......all we finished with was limoncello and grappa (FIREWATER!)

 

[Silver Queen]

gatordoc,
I'm half Italian and in our family the salad was always eaten after the main course. That's how we still do it. I agree with you. I think it helps the food to digest more easily. When I'm out I just adjust to having the salad first. My grandparents were from Naples and Abbruzzi.

 

[Disnsyncey]

And I wasn't aware of a thing called salad dressing for years - it was always just dressed with oil and vinegar, and perhaps salt. I've never been anywhere else outside my family, whether a home or a restaurant, where that is the sequence of the meal.

I LOVE oil, vinegar, and salt on my salads.....

here's a question....there's that abbondanza meal....there is salad as a choice....I went to the patina group website to see where their background is, and I can't find any Italians to trace it back to......but I wonder what regions they say they are influenced by.....depending on when they eat the salad? or if they have grown accustomed to the american way of eating, what they know back in italy? haha I guess I am launching a spy operation on these restaurants.....HAHAHAH