Completely OT but did you see this?

[MiniGirl]

Has anyone had the expierence of trying to parent a child who doesn't care about the consequences? I'm just saying that there's only so much a parent can do if their child doesn't care about being punished. A parent can spank, threaten, time out, take items away, or even offer to give rewards if the child will cooperate but if the child doesn't care about any of this, what's a parent supposed to do? I just think it's becoming way too easy to judge other parents when we're not in their shoes.

I think the child that doesn't care about anything is extremely rare. My oldest was a very difficult toddler. She didn't seem to care about anything. We tried everything we could think of and nothing worked. We took away toys, gave time outs, spanked (no flames, please), bribed, cajoled. Nothing worked. I loved my dd, but I have to admit, some days I didn't like her very much. On one of those days, I put her to bed without reading to her. I just needed the day to be over. Well, guess what? I discovered what it was she cared about. She was so upset that we didn't cuddle together and read. The next day was a new day. She was completely different. I finally figured out what she cared about. Now, again, please no flames. I had one woman tell me what a horrible parent I was to withhold my love and affection from my child. However, it was because I love my child that I did it. My dd is 7 now, and we are always told about what a kind, respectful, and considerate child she is. She is always invited over to friends' homes because she is so polite. If I hadn't taken the action I did, I really do not think she would be as kind and considerate as she is.

I guess my point is that as parents we need to find what works for each child and it won't always be something obvious like a toy or a tv show, etc. Also because my child enjoyed this part of our day so much, I didn't have to take it away but a few times for her to learn that her actions do indeed have consequences. I also should add that my dd knows without a doubt that she is loved and cuddling and reading together is still a favorite part of the day -- only dd is reading to me now. I am so proud of her and the person she is becoming.

 

[NotUrsula]

I'm assuming that this is the other half of the reason why the airline asked them to leave the plane.

No, there was no other half. The only reason they were asked to leave was that the parents were not making a timely effort to put the child in the seat. If she had been in the seat and screaming her head off, they would have been flying home on the original flight. It would have annoyed the other passengers, but not kept them from making their connections, and it would not have cost the airline the add'l operating costs that the delay did. (A 15 minute delay with the engines running costs at least $100K.)

 

[Stimpy]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I agree that the child should have been physically put into her seat, but what about after this? Nobody could make her stop throwing her tempertantrum( kicking, crying , screaming) I'm assuming that this is the other half of the reason why the airline asked them to leave the plane.

I'm just trying to point out that there are children out there that are hard to control, even if their parents try everything in their power and we can say well, I would or wouldn't have done this, but unless you've expierenced dealing with a child like this it's all a little bit hypothetical. Some children don't even care if their WDW trip is being threated or they are being kicked off a plane. They just say so what. This type of child affects the entire family. Are the siblings of this child supposed to be punished also by having their vacations cancelled because their sis/bro can't be controlled? They didn't do anything wrong. If the parents are trying their best to control their kid, I say cut them a brake.

I don't think anywone is arguing that there are children that are harder to control than others. I have 2 kids, after having my DD we realized my older DS was apparently an "angel"! DD can be a terror at times, I admit it.

But when it comes to safety of her and the comfort of others, I will do my best to control her. If that means physically holding her in her seat while she is seatbelted, that's what I would do.

From the reports I've seen about this, the 3yr old was on the floor kicking and screaming....that's a big difference from just yelling and crying in her seat. I don't think anyone said they were kicked off because of her screaming. If her parents were not willing, or not able (although she is 3! It's hard to convince me an adult is not able to constrain a 3yr old) to keep her belted in, they need to realize there are consequences for everyone.

Again, I can sympathize with the parents to a point. The embarrassment and feeling of angst is a terrible feeling. How is that the airlines fault though? They are a business that's job is to get passengers safely to another destination. The child was not safely restrained. They also need to keep the other 100+ passengers safety into account as well as the inconvenience it would cause them. Is it fair to another passenger to have to miss his/her connecting flight to get home to see their own children (or miss an important meeting, miss time spent on thier vacation, etc) b/c these parents couldn't control 1 3yr old?

The flight crew did the right thing and it's a shame the airline is not supporting them but giving this family a "reward".

 

[Not so Dumbo]

I guess I just see it as an unfortunate event for all parties. I can understand the airlines position, but also I don't feel that the parents need to be criticized for not being able to control their daughter. I don't see it as the family being rewarded, but rather the situation being resolved for all parties envolved.

 

[DisneyPhD]

I guess I just see it as an unfortunate event for all parties. I can understand the airlines position, but also I don't feel that the parents need to be criticized for not being able to control their daughter. I don't see it as the family being rewarded, but rather the situation being resolved for all parties envolved.

The question here is really not so much that they weren't able to control their DD, but did they do all that was necessary too control DD?

The thing is the news reporter are not sitting in the airport waiting for 3 year olds and their parents to get kicked off. The airlines is not going to contact the press. Who do you think contacted the press? The parents (or their lawyer.) The parents had to feel they were really wronged to do this. They opened themselves up for people making judgment calls on this subject. It does not appear the child had a medical or developmental reason for acting this way (unless maybe being an Indigo child.)

It appears most people and parents don't feel the airlines acted wrongly.

If my kid got me tossed of a flight, you better believe I would not be flying again any time soon with said child, even if it was free. (or at least not with out some sort of medication.)

I think it would of been hard for the parents, their luggage, stroller and car seat was already loaded on it. I am assuming they had to go with out that until they were able to make the next flight. I think it was fair to offer another flight home the price of the one they already paid for. Maybe even a meal and a hotel over night. Not another free trip. I do feel for them a little bit. I also think they were more then fairly compensated for the problem, so calling the press and making a stink only makes them look bad in my eyes.

 

[tjmw2727]

I guess I just see it as an unfortunate event for all parties. I can understand the airlines position, but also I don't feel that the parents need to be criticized for not being able to control their daughter. I don't see it as the family being rewarded, but rather the situation being resolved for all parties envolved.

It is unfortunate this happened I certainly agree with you there. Honestly, I was leaning toward the favor of the parents at first glance but after seeing the family on TV (twice) I changed my mind completely.

I am not critizing the parents for their parenting I am critizing their decision not to follow the orders of the flight crew. The flight crew has a job to do and that includes making sure everyone is seated with the seat belt on in order for the flight to take off. Unfortunately that includes crying toddlers sometimes.

The parents said they did not want to put the child into the seat until she was ready and wanted more time to "convince" her. The FA's told them they needed everyone in their seats as they ald already delayed the plane over 15 minutes waiting for the child to be seated. The parents argued and chose not to listen to the FA's, they were asked to leave the aircraft.

The media is making it out like Airtran refused them because the toddler was crying. The real situation - even when explained by the parents is not like that at all.

TJ

 

[declansdad]

These people got more than they deserved. According to reports that I have read, they were not trying to get her into her seat. The flight had already been delayed by 15 minutes, possibly putting connection for other passengers in jeopardy. The parents would have had approximately 30 minutes (including the delay) to get the little girl into her seat. I say 30 minutes because of the boarding time.

Apparently they have started giving interviews saying they were kicked off because of the crying. This is totally wrong. It is illegal to leave the gate until everyone is belted. AirTran was right in removing them from the plane.

And just so you know, the thread on the CB has been very civil and everyone has been pretty much in agreement.

 

[DisneyPhD]

And just so you know, the thread on the CB has been very civil and everyone has been pretty much in agreement.

Wow, an over 10 page thread that has been civil and in agreement, that in and of itself is an amazing accomplishment!

(I am guessing on how big the thread was.)

Edited to add, 17 pages, wow I am impressed!

 

[JacobsMommy11002]

Has anyone had the expierence of trying to parent a child who doesn't care about the consequences? I'm just saying that there's only so much a parent can do if their child doesn't care about being punished. A parent can spank, threaten, time out, take items away, or even offer to give rewards if the child will cooperate but if the child doesn't care about any of this, what's a parent supposed to do? I just think it's becoming way too easy to judge other parents when we're not in their shoes.

Then the parent needs to take responsibility for the situation and physically restrain their child. My DD3 did NOT want to stay in her seat. At times, I had to physically hold her down to keep the seat belt on her while she screamed. I sure the heck didn't enjoy it, but her safety is more important. I also think people are becoming more judgemental because parents are taking less responsibility. While some children do have real issues, many do not. I think a lot of it comes down to guilt...take me for example. I work..as a result, I feel guilty as hell for the time I spend away from my family. Because of that, i often let my kids get away with stuff, becuase I don't want the fight. I am coping out because its easier, I know that, and as a result, my kids were becoming more unruly. Not ok.

 

[stacy6552]

A child who doesn't care about consequences is a child who cannot predict them, because the parents are not consistant.

 

[drag n' fly]

This even made the newspaper up here! The airline did the right thing. As much as a screaming child is hard to handle the child should have been seated and restrained screaming or not.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I wonder? After the family was thrown off the plane, did this child face a consequence or was it the "airlines fault they were thrown off the plane?

According to all accounts--it was the meany airline's fault.

 

[DisneyPhD]

I just saw an interview with them on the news. The DD was climbing all over the couch while they were talking. I can just see her doing that on the airplane.

My kids are not always perfectly behaved, but if I was going to on the news I would ask for a min to talk to my child alone before doing the interview.

 

[disneymomof6]

I saw them on TV also.... my only thought was that they reminded me of the type of parents that wouldnt remove their screaming child from movie theatre when everyone else is trying to watch... has happened to me on more that one occassion....

too many people are saying things like... Poor parents, must have been embarrassed, kids can be hard to control, blah blah blah... so then its easier for people to blame a 3 yr old child that is just learning how to adapt in life then parents that should know better.