Completely dissappointed with BWV

[crisi]

I have read this in a guide book. Maybe Unofficial or Fromer's Walt Disney world with kids??? Anyway, WL was going to be a moderate resort. The standard rooms only sleep 4 not 5 like all the other Deluxe resorts at the time. WL and AKL are the only deluxe resorts that sleep 4 instead of 5-no day bed and slightly smaller rooms. Plus, not on the monorail or Epcot location. I think it's the amazing themeing that makes these resorts so lovely and popular. The book said something about how Disney changed WL to a Deluxe because of it's buzz/popularity but it's still less of a rack rate than say BWI or the other deluxes.

Be careful of what you read in unofficial guide books, they have unofficial information.

My unofficial information (though it comes from a former Disney CM who project managed resort design) is that WL was designed to fill a space between moderates and deluxes - which it does. It gives people the option of having a lot of the deluxe feeling with smaller rooms at a more reasonable price. It was never intended to be a moderate, nor was it intended to be the Grand Floridian or Yacht Club.

I think Disney's vacation vision to to provide its guests an opportunity to move gradually up the "value add" chain. In their vision: You start at the value resorts eating counter service with your hopper. You move to the moderate resorts and add a few full service restaurants. The jump between the moderates and the deluxes can be big, so the deluxe light resorts bridge you. Eventually, a certain number of people will end up staying at the GF, playing golf and eating sit down dinner with drinks at places like the CG.

 

[Beca]

I'm not sure I agree with the "flagship" resort thing. If that were true why is it less points to stay at SSR than BWI, BC, VWL? As someone pointed out, the GF IS Disney's flagship resort and it costs more to stay there than the POLY, YC, or any other deluxe resort. I'm not talking about resale or buy in price at SSR, just the number of points SSR costs per night. I don't buy the supply and demand thing. Are you saying if the GF was larger, Disney would have to charge less per night to stay there?? It just doesn't make sense . While I think SSR is very pretty, it does not have direct park access or a large number of dining choices. There is no room service, etc. and other things one would expect to find at a "flagship" resort, at least by Disney standards. It doesn't get treated by guide books as a flagship resort either. I am not bashing SSR, just disagreeing with what that CM/guide/captain/driver said.


I believe DVC and Disney would promote ANY DVC resort they are currently selling, very heavily. I remember the promotion for BCV during one trip in particular. I wish we had bought then!

Thanks!! That is EXACTLY what I was trying to say....but, you said it much better. WDW is a real "interesting" place. I think they tend to price their "best" resorts appropriately. WDW has always said that GF was it's "flagship" resort, but here's some interesting info. Last May we were traveling with friends. We booked a 2 bdrm and told our friends we would be picking up the tab for their room. They had never seen a DVC room, and were worried that their daughter (who gets up very early) would be negatively influenced by our daughter (who stays up very late). They are VERY sweet people who just did not want our friendship to suffer by rooming together for a week. They saw the "Vacation for $1500" add and called to see what rooms they could get. Now, they are NOT value people so they were a little surprised at the deluxe prices. The interesting thing was, they got a quote at the GF that was over $2000 less than the quote at the BC for the identical reservation. My friend called me up and said, "Do you know the hotel associated with your timeshare is now more expensive than the Grand Floridian?" I was shocked...I always assumed GF was THE most expensive hotel on property....but BC was much more expensive for her. I asked if she got a concierge rate, and she said, "No....it's not even a water view room!".

Needless to say, they decided to stay in our 2 bdrm...and, they LOVED it!! I am not sure if the rates were a "fluke" or what....but, it is nice to know that WDW values my home resort so well. I am not sure where other DVC resorts fit into this "pricing range", but it seems to me that WDW seems to hold BC in pretty high esteem....at least where the almighty dollar is concerned.



Beca

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

I'm not sure I agree with the "flagship" resort thing. If that were true why is it less points to stay at SSR than BWI, BC, VWL? As someone pointed out, the GF IS Disney's flagship resort and it costs more to stay there than the POLY, YC, or any other deluxe resort. I'm not talking about resale or buy in price at SSR, just the number of points SSR costs per night. I don't buy the supply and demand thing. Are you saying if the GF was larger, Disney would have to charge less per night to stay there?? It just doesn't make sense . While I think SSR is very pretty, it does not have direct park access or a large number of dining choices. There is no room service, etc. and other things one would expect to find at a "flagship" resort, at least by Disney standards. It doesn't get treated by guide books as a flagship resort either. I am not bashing SSR, just disagreeing with what that CM/guide/captain/driver said.


I believe DVC and Disney would promote ANY DVC resort they are currently selling, very heavily. I remember the promotion for BCV during one trip in particular. I wish we had bought then!

Ok forget I ever said it. A DVC rep told me this was DVC's plans thats all. My comment was not to make like it was better than any other resort just that it was where they would show off DVC. Good God all the resorts are EQUAL. sheesh.

 

[gopherit]

THis is becoming a semantics issue, LOL. It's all in how you define "flagship", I think.

If you define it as the keeper of the Admiral, and hence the ship with the most amenities - well, yes, that's probably GF among the other WDW resorts. But I can't really pick a DVC "flagship" in that regard. Not because I think they are equal - I think they are all quite different, in fact - but moreso because the ways in which they differ can't always be compared. (Location versus room size versus points price versus inside corridors versus etc etc etc). On price alone, looks like the BCV resale contracts are hardest to find and hold resale values the highest, with VWL and BWV close seconds. In terms of current points price, though, you could argue for SSR, since DVCII points cost more than DVC I when add-ons are bought through Disney.

If, however, you define "flagship" as the mothership from which all others sprang, well, then the Contemporary, Poly, and FW resorts might beat out the GF by a good 17 yrs, and OKW takes the honors in the DVC fleet.

ANd IF, by some chance, you simply define "flagship" as the ship out in front, bearing the flag as a symbol of the fleet as a whole, then the moniker would most likely be applied to whichever resort is being advertised or "put out front" the heaviest... which would be SSR in the DVC lineup until some new resort comes along, and honestly, take your pick among the other resort offerings, but frankly, the most advertised (or at least that I've seen) are the Value resorts!

 

[NMW]

Be careful of what you read in unofficial guide books, they have unofficial information.

My unofficial information (though it comes from a former Disney CM who project managed resort design) is that WL was designed to fill a space between moderates and deluxes - which it does. It gives people the option of having a lot of the deluxe feeling with smaller rooms at a more reasonable price. It was never intended to be a moderate, nor was it intended to be the Grand Floridian or Yacht Club.

I think Disney's vacation vision to to provide its guests an opportunity to move gradually up the "value add" chain. In their vision: You start at the value resorts eating counter service with your hopper. You move to the moderate resorts and add a few full service restaurants. The jump between the moderates and the deluxes can be big, so the deluxe light resorts bridge you. Eventually, a certain number of people will end up staying at the GF, playing golf and eating sit down dinner with drinks at places like the CG.

This seems very pausible. The WL and AKL do seem to be in between moderates and deluxes. The moving up thing probably does happen for a lot of Disney vacationers. My future sister-in-law stayed at All star Music for her senior class trip (she is about a decade younger than me ) then she and my brother stayed at a moderate before they got engaged this year, POFQ I think. Now they are planning to stay at the YC or the GF for their 2006 honeymoon. She said she only wants to stay at Deluxes from now on. She did a few stays at the POLY with her parents as teenager, so she knows what she's missing! I also like the term "deluxe light" LOL.

 

[DVCconvert]

Good God all the resorts are EQUAL. sheesh.

Of COURSE they aren't -- BWV is THE flagship!!!!! -- sheesh!!!

 

[Dean]

We were already members though. It isn't like he would make cash of of us KWIM? He knew we had purchased so it wasn't like he was trying to book a tour. We were just talking and I asked about a restaurant and he went into all his goosip about what is upcoming and etc.

The "flagship" thing is simply hype and unofficial at that. My point was that the guides are not an authoritative source. They do have a lot of good gossip at times and much of it will be true to one degree or another. Many times we know about real happenings by or even before the do. But it is fun to discuss with them then throw it around the boards.

 

[DrTomorrow]

It's all in how you define "flagship", I think. [...]

Great! Then I define "flagship" as the DVC Resort that's newest. I win!

 

[ceejay13]

Every time I come back to catch up on this thread I think of Richyams. You know he's probably loving this discussion. Of course he would tell you OKW is and always has been the flagship. I am in total agreement with Dean and DrTomorrow about the flagship definition. Wherever the newest resort is the flagship since they others have been sold out.

 

[SueOKW]

Richyams is right!! my OKW!!!!

 

[SueOKW]

oh - and now that i've finally posted on this thread, I guarantee you it will die. I am the thread killah!

 

[CRSNDSNY]

oh - and now that i've finally posted on this thread, I guarantee you it will die. I am the thread killah!

sorry Sue -- couldn't help myself!

 

[dianeschlicht]

Of COURSE they aren't -- BWV is THE flagship!!!!! -- sheesh!!!

How can that be when it wasn't the first or the largest?

 

[gopherit]

How can that be when it wasn't the first or the largest?

WHile I think the BWV fan was posting to yank a few chains, LOL, I once again point to the fact it's allllll in how you define "Flagship".

If Dr. T wants to say flagship is the "boat" with cabins still available for purchase, then he can claim SSR as his flagship.

If fans of the Richyams philosophy want to cling to the concept of the "mother-of-all-flags-ship", then let them do so and point to OKW as the foundation.

But if someone wants to wax and shine the notion that "flagship" means the ship with the most amenities, the ship that outshines the others in its offerings, the ship with the most gold and glitter.... well, it can get tricky, because while chronology and "room for rent" metrics are easily determined, determining which resort is more "special" is not (edited to say -- NOT easy, that is, for the masses to agree on. Many people make their own personal determination quite easily! It's getting a concensus that's hard!)

Determining which has more value - location, theming, room size, points cost, resort size, restaurants and shops, grand villas, pool "pizzazz", inside versus outside corridors, elevators, parking, nicer staff, better views, well yadayadayada you could go on FOREVER... it would be a rubric nightmare. This very board (this thread, even!) is an excellent example of how hard that would be!

 

[TDC Nala]

The busses good grief! Sharing the busses with 4 resorts is absurd!

This is what I dislike most about Epcot resorts. I own at BCV and if you are there or at BW, getting home from PI at 1:30 AM takes forever while they drop off at the Swan, the Dolphin, the Yacht Club...

And this is after midnight, when everything else is closed.

I absolutely love everything else about Epcot resorts.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

This seems very pausible. The WL and AKL do seem to be in between moderates and deluxes.

Oh no, not this again!

I've always been completely miffed when a very few people echo this statement.
I'm confused how the two most themed resorts at WDW could possibly be "moderates".
Now, you don't have to like the theme, but there is no denying that VWL/WL & AKL have a higher level of theming than other Disney Resorts. I mean, just walk in and look at the place.

Beyond theming they both have top notch full service restaurants with room service, valet parking, bell services, fitness centers, arcades, and the list goes on...

In short, WL/VWL & AKL have the same or more services and amenities as the other deluxes (barring the monorail), in addition to more intricate theming.

MG

 

[Dean]

Oh no, not this again!

I've always been completely miffed when a very few people echo this statement.
I'm confused how the two most themed resorts at WDW could possibly be "moderates".
Now, you don't have to like the theme, but there is no denying that VWL/WL & AKL have a higher level of theming than other Disney Resorts. I mean, just walk in and look at the place.

Beyond theming they both have top notch full service restaurants with room service, valet parking, bell services, fitness centers, arcades, and the list goes on...

In short, WL/VWL & AKL have the same or more services and amenities as the other deluxes (barring the monorail), in addition to more intricate theming.

MG

LOL, I wondered how long it'd take you to jump in. If you enjoy it most, that's all that matters, it is a fine resort. But the truth is it is less accessible, doesn't have a convention center and has smaller rooms that some of the other resorts it is compared to. It may not be less of a deluxe to you but it is to many including in some ways to Disney, DVC and some other publications/ratings. And as I've said before, I see OKW as a moderate in some ways and it's till my favorite resort both to own and stay. And I do see price and locaiton as having some roll in defining this issue as well.

 

[littlestar]

I'm with you, Maistre Gracey, if the lodge is a moderate, I want MORE moderate - hee hee.