competitive Gymnastics......question and opinions ..how they do things at your gym

[npmommie]

So my dd competed level 4 this year. Since the last meet they have been uptraining a lot and she has accomplished most of the elements needed for level 5. the one thing she is missing is the high bar kip, she is sooooooo close.

so that is some back story.
so in the past the gym would decide over the summer after the more intense training who would be moving up a level and who would stay.
but this year they are deciding now. as in this week they made the decisions.

they have decided to add more to the Prep Optional program , sometimes I think in usag they call it Xcel.

so there are 4 girls like my dd in level 4 that they will not move to level 5. one girl is moving up from lev 4. they decided now, even though she doesn't have the consistent low bar kip.
so they have asked us to have my dd compete as a prep op intermediate level next year, then if she wants to enter back into the jo levels she can, and by then she would definitely go in as lev 5 or 6. ( this is from them)

so looking at the required elements for Intermediate level Prep they are equivalent to level 5/6.
for instance the vault is the level 5 vault and the floor routine has to contain the same kind of acro elements with flight like the lev 5 routine.

they explained the difference in programs as that the Prep can focus on her strengths and hide the weaknesses, because everyone doesn't have to do the same routines.

ok..........so if you made it that far thank you!

the coach was adament that they won't make decisions over the summer it is decided now.

she mentioned something my dd was doing wrong in the lev 5 bar routine, I asked my dd if she was ever corrected on this and she said NO they never told me that, and I just learned the routine.
so this is just an example of some of my complaints about the coaches, sometimes they don't correct when they should. and that is important.

so anyway if you are familiar with the world of competitive gymnastics would love your input.
my dd is upset, she thought she would get to level 5 by the end of summer, she knows she is close. she feels discouraged now.
I can see the positive and negative about both paths she could take. her options according to them is to do prep intermediate or compete again as a level 4.

one of my friends suggested I have her evaluated at another gym for their team and see what an outsider would say about her. we have never been to another gym, we have been with this one a few years.
my dd does not want to switch gyms. but when I offered her this option she wants to think about it now.

now honestly I dont' want her to move up if she really isn't ready. but I also dont' want her pushed into another program that they are trying to get going just because they need her.
in my opinion after looking at the prep rules if she is good enough to compete intermediate she should be good enough for level 5
In our state the prep levels are Rookie, Novice, Intermediate, Advanced and Superior. I know other places like florida do bronze silver gold ( i think ) and I think others do it different
so help me out gym people . need opinions.

 

[padams]

I'm not the greatest expert but I'll bump you back up to the top and give you my opinion. I was a competitive gymnast, I have friends whose DDs are in the sport currently, and DS dates a level 9. I also have years of experience as a sports mom.

I would definitely have her tryout at another gym for a "second opinion." i wouldn't tell the new gym about the level 5/prep op issue. Just say she has been a level 4 this year if they ask her experience. The less said, the better. Let her be judged on her skills.

My gut reaction reading your post is they are trying to fill out the prep op team. Level 4 is too soon to be making decisions on who should stick out the jo levels and who should be relegated to prep op imho.

Look for drills online that she can do at home to help her get her high bar kip. Also, check out chalkbucket.com. Lots of current parents in the sport there who can give you advice.

Good luck and please update.

 

[npmommie]

I'm not the greatest expert but I'll bump you back up to the top and give you my opinion. I was a competitive gymnast, I have friends whose DDs are in the sport currently, and DS dates a level 9. I also have years of experience as a sports mom.

I would definitely have her tryout at another gym for a "second opinion." i wouldn't tell the new gym about the level 5/prep op issue. Just say she has been a level 4 this year if they ask her experience. The less said, the better. Let her be judged on her skills.

My gut reaction reading your post is they are trying to fill out the prep op team. Level 4 is too soon to be making decisions on who should stick out the jo levels and who should be relegated to prep op imho.

Look for drills online that she can do at home to help her get her high bar kip. Also, check out chalkbucket.com. Lots of current parents in the sport there who can give you advice.

Good luck and please update.

thanks!
my gut reaction is they are filling out prep op too.

they kept saying if she does prep she can switch back to jo levels next year and would be level 5 or 6.

when i looked at the requirements for intermediate level prep op they are like level 5 skills.
the vault is the same and the floor routine has to contain one forward acro element with or without flight and 2 acro elements with flight. this is what is in the level 5 routine.

so my gut feeling is if she is good enough for intermediate prep she should be good enough for level 5.

 

[mom2rb]

I don't know anything about prep-op. We don't have it here. I am deciding my levels right now. My girls compete in the Fall. It seems like you have had a lot of problems with this gym lately. It might be time to look elsewhere. Kips are hard, but high bar Kips are easier than low bar Kips.

 

[npmommie]

I don't know anything about prep-op. We don't have it here. I am deciding my levels right now. My girls compete in the Fall. It seems like you have had a lot of problems with this gym lately. It might be time to look elsewhere. Kips are hard, but high bar Kips are easier than low bar Kips.

yep she is backwards, she got the low bar kip weeks ago. is still working the high bar kip.

I think its time to see how things are done elsewhere. but my dd insists she is happy and I guess that is what its about, but I feel like she could be happy somewhere else too

so if you have anyone on the cusp do you give them the summer? or do they stay back since you are deciding now?
they are telling me even if she perfected the lev 5 bar routine by august its too late

the biggest problem I have is communication. they do not communicate well.

 

[mom2rb]

In April, I let the parents know where the girls are. Then they can choose to get privates to help. Right now I have one girl without a kip. I am letting her go 5A. I am not a big fan of repeating 4. I do repeat about half of my 5's.

 

[Jaime4004]

Well this sounds strangely familiar... My DD also competed level 4 last season and was asked to go to Prep-Op Intermediate this year instead. She was the only one. 2 are repeating 4 and four are moving onto level 5. I know for my DD it's because she is slow to get skills, and I think it's actually a good move for her. Might decrease stress if she doesn't have something since they make up their own routines, it can be substituted.
But to me, they do seem to be pretty much the same skills as level 5. She has been wanting to go to prep op all season, once she saw that they had different routines (those level 4 routines can become a little repetitive... ) but then when she found out everyone was going to 5, she wanted to also. So she was a little disappointed, but I hyped up prep-op and she seems excited about it. I let her know that if she wanted to switch back to JO after this year, she should have no problem since she'd have all the level 5 skills. My only concern is that in her gym, I think she is going to be way younger than the rest. She's 8 and I believe they are in the 11-13 range.

 

[surfgirl]

So my dd competed level 4 this year. Since the last meet they have been uptraining a lot and she has accomplished most of the elements needed for level 5. the one thing she is missing is the high bar kip, she is sooooooo close.

so that is some back story.
so in the past the gym would decide over the summer after the more intense training who would be moving up a level and who would stay.
but this year they are deciding now. as in this week they made the decisions.

they have decided to add more to the Prep Optional program , sometimes I think in usag they call it Xcel.

so there are 4 girls like my dd in level 4 that they will not move to level 5. one girl is moving up from lev 4. they decided now, even though she doesn't have the consistent low bar kip.
so they have asked us to have my dd compete as a prep op intermediate level next year, then if she wants to enter back into the jo levels she can, and by then she would definitely go in as lev 5 or 6. ( this is from them)

so looking at the required elements for Intermediate level Prep they are equivalent to level 5/6.
for instance the vault is the level 5 vault and the floor routine has to contain the same kind of acro elements with flight like the lev 5 routine.

they explained the difference in programs as that the Prep can focus on her strengths and hide the weaknesses, because everyone doesn't have to do the same routines.

ok..........so if you made it that far thank you!

the coach was adament that they won't make decisions over the summer it is decided now.

she mentioned something my dd was doing wrong in the lev 5 bar routine, I asked my dd if she was ever corrected on this and she said NO they never told me that, and I just learned the routine.
so this is just an example of some of my complaints about the coaches, sometimes they don't correct when they should. and that is important.

so anyway if you are familiar with the world of competitive gymnastics would love your input.
my dd is upset, she thought she would get to level 5 by the end of summer, she knows she is close. she feels discouraged now.
I can see the positive and negative about both paths she could take. her options according to them is to do prep intermediate or compete again as a level 4.

one of my friends suggested I have her evaluated at another gym for their team and see what an outsider would say about her. we have never been to another gym, we have been with this one a few years.
my dd does not want to switch gyms. but when I offered her this option she wants to think about it now.

now honestly I dont' want her to move up if she really isn't ready. but I also dont' want her pushed into another program that they are trying to get going just because they need her.
in my opinion after looking at the prep rules if she is good enough to compete intermediate she should be good enough for level 5
In our state the prep levels are Rookie, Novice, Intermediate, Advanced and Superior. I know other places like florida do bronze silver gold ( i think ) and I think others do it different
so help me out gym people . need opinions.

rule 1.


The one question I would ask is what age is your daughter? What is her commitment level?

Sometimes kids who are older, they push into Prep Op instead of JO because they are topping out age-wise. Also, if kids are into other sports and aren't willing/able to be in the gym 3x/week (minimum), they may encourage Prep Op vs. JO.

I would be discouraged if they only element she is missing is the high bar kip. I know many L4 going to L5 that are missing many more skills than that. Some gyms work really hard over the summer, allowing girls to get their skills over the summer and make the decision Aug. 1 (or thereabouts). Other gyms move earlier, but may not require all skills in May (for example) when decisions are made.

The kip is such a big one! It takes girls many months of being 'almost there' before they get it. I'd be disappointed if that truly is the only thing she is missing. Did she have a good year competitively last year? If so, I don't understand.

I think a PP is right... they are trying to fill out Prep Op team. I would make a few phone calls and have her try other gyms now - so if you make a change, then you can adjust summer schedules.

good luck. no brilliant advice, but yes, I agree it is odd.

 

[Nette]

I'd have to agree with PP... It might be time to find a new gym.

As a former competitive gymnast (Level 7), a team coach (4-8) and now a gym mom studying for judging test, it just sounds wrong what they are doing. And as a coach I would have been giving the gymnast a choice whether to drop the JO program. Have you asked the coach what their reasoning for this placement is? If they won't tell you, then again, time for a new gym.

 

[AC7179]

As a coach, if she had all her other skills cleanly, I would have her compete level 5a and scratch bars until she had the kip. The usag levels build upon each other and I personally don't think prep op is a good feeder into Level 6. I say this as someone who had a daughter that competed prep op and it was perfect for her.

 

[surfgirl]

I guess I never actually answered your question.

Our old gym promoted you from L4 to L5 if you had qualifying scores. Otherwise you repeated L4. There was no "having the skills at L5". In fact, many of the L5's don't have the skills by September and may only get them for the first meet. This is one of the reasons it is our 'old' gym.

Our new gym has a list of skills for each Level. You must have a certain percentage by Aug. 30 to move (the percentages are different for each level). If you get them early, bonus! So you can have everything else except the kips and still be promoted.

good luck.

 

[npmommie]

rule 1.


The one question I would ask is what age is your daughter? What is her commitment level?

Sometimes kids who are older, they push into Prep Op instead of JO because they are topping out age-wise. Also, if kids are into other sports and aren't willing/able to be in the gym 3x/week (minimum), they may encourage Prep Op vs. JO.

I would be discouraged if they only element she is missing is the high bar kip. I know many L4 going to L5 that are missing many more skills than that. Some gyms work really hard over the summer, allowing girls to get their skills over the summer and make the decision Aug. 1 (or thereabouts). Other gyms move earlier, but may not require all skills in May (for example) when decisions are made.

The kip is such a big one! It takes girls many months of being 'almost there' before they get it. I'd be disappointed if that truly is the only thing she is missing. Did she have a good year competitively last year? If so, I don't understand.

I think a PP is right... they are trying to fill out Prep Op team. I would make a few phone calls and have her try other gyms now - so if you make a change, then you can adjust summer schedules.

good luck. no brilliant advice, but yes, I agree it is odd.

Yes the high bar kip is the only skill she is missing. The coach went over it. The other input was that her level 5 bar routine is not smooth enough going from element to element, for instance the coach watched her and said she paused between elements and. Well she is just learning the routine!! So i thought that was an unfair criticism but whatever.
The prep intermediates will practice 3 times a week possibly increasing to 4. She is very committed that is not an issue at all. She works hard from the moment she steps into the gym. She went from just barely doing the round off back handspring in september to now doing near perfect powerful roundoff triple back handsprings, table vault, and other lev 5 skills. Thats why this is out of left field.
They are not moving any of the level 4's up except for one.

I'd have to agree with PP... It might be time to find a new gym.

As a former competitive gymnast (Level 7), a team coach (4-8) and now a gym mom studying for judging test, it just sounds wrong what they are doing. And as a coach I would have been giving the gymnast a choice whether to drop the JO program. Have you asked the coach what their reasoning for this placement is? If they won't tell you, then again, time for a new gym.

They gave her a choice, prep op intermediate level, or compete jo level 4 again.
I almost feel like they are pushing her to do prep. Because they want to get a bigger prep team. They keep saying she can come back to jo levels and would probably be a level 5 or 6

As a coach, if she had all her other skills cleanly, I would have her compete level 5a and scratch bars until she had the kip. The usag levels build upon each other and I personally don't think prep op is a good feeder into Level 6. I say this as someone who had a daughter that competed prep op and it was perfect for her.

I have never even heard them talk about level 5a. Do they do that everywhere?

I guess I never actually answered your question.

Our old gym promoted you from L4 to L5 if you had qualifying scores. Otherwise you repeated L4. There was no "having the skills at L5". In fact, many of the L5's don't have the skills by September and may only get them for the first meet. This is one of the reasons it is our 'old' gym.

Our new gym has a list of skills for each Level. You must have a certain percentage by Aug. 30 to move (the percentages are different for each level). If you get them early, bonus! So you can have everything else except the kips and still be promoted.

good luck.

they told us after level 4 its based on scores. So if she did level 5 next year she would have to have certain score for mobility.

She doesnt know what she wants to do. We may be checking out another gym just to see.

 

[Schmeck]

If you do show up at another gym, don't be surprised if that info gets back to your old gym. The new gym is going to want to know if you are current with payments. They'll ask around to see if you are 'one of those moms', etc. Would this be acceptable at your present gym?

It happens in all mainly-female sports - skating, competitive dance, cheering, to name a few.

DD21 was a competitive gymnast up until age 12. When she started competing, she was placed in L5 after the coach evaluated all the young girls in the precompetitive program. He didn't think she was ready to even try out, but she did well enough in tryouts to get on the team. She was not one of the best though, and got little guidance during team practices. His wife thought she showed promise though, and offered private lessons. She flourished, and ended up placing above a few of the 'better' gymnasts on her team at her first huge multi-team meet. Out of 50+ girls in her age group/level, she placed 8th. She was so proud!

My point - if the coach doesn't think she's going to do well, don't expect much time to be given to her if you do manage to get her placed in L5.

 

[npmommie]

If you do show up at another gym, don't be surprised if that info gets back to your old gym. The new gym is going to want to know if you are current with payments. They'll ask around to see if you are 'one of those moms', etc. Would this be acceptable at your present gym?

It happens in all mainly-female sports - skating, competitive dance, cheering, to name a few.

DD21 was a competitive gymnast up until age 12. When she started competing, she was placed in L5 after the coach evaluated all the young girls in the precompetitive program. He didn't think she was ready to even try out, but she did well enough in tryouts to get on the team. She was not one of the best though, and got little guidance during team practices. His wife thought she showed promise though, and offered private lessons. She flourished, and ended up placing above a few of the 'better' gymnasts on her team at her first huge multi-team meet. Out of 50+ girls in her age group/level, she placed 8th. She was so proud!

My point - if the coach doesn't think she's going to do well, don't expect much time to be given to her if you do manage to get her placed in L5.

I am not one of those moms. really. this is probably the most I have talked to them in the years she has been competing.
so not worried there.
the only problem is that another family went to check out another gym last year and decided they would finish out the month then switch. well the gym caught wind and asked them to leave immediately.

so I do worry if they get wind of us checking out another place we may be forced out. even if we realize we don't want to leave. I say we, but I mean my dd. It is her choice.

but that is a good point to bring up.

 

[surfgirl]

When we switched gyms, I called owners and spoke with them directly. If you have another sibling, you can always say you are calling about them. Or maybe you have a friend moving into town and her daughter is also a L4 who would be moving to L5. Yes, they may see through it, but it would give you plausible deniability.

I stressed the need for confidentiality, because I was just getting information and how things would and could be done. I told them if, and when I made a decision, I would inform the other gym, but I didn't want to burn bridges.

Yes, gym owners talk, and no, you don't want to be 'that parent' that moves your kid every year (there is actually something in our handbook that addresses that). But gym owners know if you are honest and forthcoming and find a way to walk away that they can accept and don't badmouth them, hopefully it will go well.

Honestly, if you gym will not allow her to compete L5 and that is what she wants to do and she is capable, then that is a good reason to consider looking. Your gym now won't be surprised if you have expressed surprise at that decision. It is simple, "Susie wants to compete L5 and we found a gym where we can make that happen." Nothing else needs to be said.

I think you would be better off doing that than frustrated all year... and I sense that is where you are heading. I wouldn't be surprised if, in a year, you said, 'she'd like to go back to JO' and they tell you she needs to go to L5 and you feel like you lost a year doing Prep Op. Something else is going on that you don't know about ... don't let them play games with her.

 

[npmommie]

When we switched gyms, I called owners and spoke with them directly. If you have another sibling, you can always say you are calling about them. Or maybe you have a friend moving into town and her daughter is also a L4 who would be moving to L5. Yes, they may see through it, but it would give you plausible deniability.

I stressed the need for confidentiality, because I was just getting information and how things would and could be done. I told them if, and when I made a decision, I would inform the other gym, but I didn't want to burn bridges.

Yes, gym owners talk, and no, you don't want to be 'that parent' that moves your kid every year (there is actually something in our handbook that addresses that). But gym owners know if you are honest and forthcoming and find a way to walk away that they can accept and don't badmouth them, hopefully it will go well.

Honestly, if you gym will not allow her to compete L5 and that is what she wants to do and she is capable, then that is a good reason to consider looking. Your gym now won't be surprised if you have expressed surprise at that decision. It is simple, "Susie wants to compete L5 and we found a gym where we can make that happen." Nothing else needs to be said.

I think you would be better off doing that than frustrated all year... and I sense that is where you are heading. I wouldn't be surprised if, in a year, you said, 'she'd like to go back to JO' and they tell you she needs to go to L5 and you feel like you lost a year doing Prep Op. Something else is going on that you don't know about ... don't let them play games with her.

Thanks. I will stress confidentiality for sure.
I think they want to get a good prep team going and that is why they are doing this.
Or maybe she isnt truly ready to compete lev 5 yet, maybe my judgement is clouded ( butni dont think so i have been watching for so long ) i think it will help to check out other gyms. We have been with this one for so long i dont even know what other gyms are like!
I found out another level 4 that they wont move up is going to do the same thing.
I just dont want any drama, and i suspect there will be some.

When that other family voiced concerns they got defensive about it and didnt acknowledge the concern was valid, so they ended up seeking out another program.

 

[npmommie]

I think if we end up leaving i will very much be sad. My kids started out doing the tot and mommy gym classes there, my ds still does a class he is now in the k-3 class.
So if my dd switches it will be sad, i have a pic of her in the living room, she is about 2 and we are heading in to her first class

 

[npmommie]

So an update if anyone is interested.
She did a practice with another team. She worked out with the lev 4/5 group.

She did great. The entire practice they worked the lev 5 skills.
The evaluation from the coach at the end was that she did great, is very close to being level 5, can do most of the level 5 skils well, and has the hard ones.

He said he is confident she would be up to level 5 to compete after summer training.
So it is just as i thought.

So i am leaving it up to her. She is the one that does it. She knows the options now and the implications for each choice. So she is thinking about it.
I think its hard to leave a comfort zone, but i also think she would do very well at the new gym.

 

[padams]

I am glad you took her to try another gym for a "second opinion".

I understand the comfort level with the familiar. However, will your dd be as comfortable and happy in prep op? I suspect some of her reluctance to going to another gym may be that she is happy with her current gym friends. You said one 4 is moving to 5, and that another 4 is looking at a new gym. I would bet that at least one other 4 will tell the gym "I'm your paying customer, move her to 5". If your dd moves to prep op without some of her friends, will it be the same? Maybe, maybe not, but you need to explain the situation to her as most kids her age won't think beyond the immediate. I wouldn't want her to stay then wish she had moved when she sees her former 4 buddies doing 5.

Also, from my own gym experience and my DSs' sports experiences, changing coaches is very beneficial. Every coach has his or her own teaching methods, focuses, drills, ways of explaining moves, spotting, etc. With a new coach, your dd may pop right up on that kip. If she can do the hard moves, she can do the easy moves.

Finally, the new gym sounds very positive. The old gym not so much. Remember that you are the paying customer. You are not a sheep to be herded around the gym so the gym makes more money having a prep op program.

If she were my dd, I'd let her decide but I would encourage her to try the new gym for the summer. If at the end of the summer, she's unhappy then you tell the old gym that she wants to return. Gyms are businesses seeking to make money. They don't turn away paying kids unless you are a "drama mama" or don't pay the bills on time. I'd tell the old gym that she wants to be a 5, and have the opportunity to work on those skills this summer.

Best of luck to your dd. I hope the kip fairy visits her soon.

 

[npmommie]

I am glad you took her to try another gym for a "second opinion".

I understand the comfort level with the familiar. However, will your dd be as comfortable and happy in prep op? I suspect some of her reluctance to going to another gym may be that she is happy with her current gym friends. You said one 4 is moving to 5, and that another 4 is looking at a new gym. I would bet that at least one other 4 will tell the gym "I'm your paying customer, move her to 5". If your dd moves to prep op without some of her friends, will it be the same? Maybe, maybe not, but you need to explain the situation to her as most kids her age won't think beyond the immediate. I wouldn't want her to stay then wish she had moved when she sees her former 4 buddies doing 5.

Also, from my own gym experience and my DSs' sports experiences, changing coaches is very beneficial. Every coach has his or her own teaching methods, focuses, drills, ways of explaining moves, spotting, etc. With a new coach, your dd may pop right up on that kip. If she can do the hard moves, she can do the easy moves.

Finally, the new gym sounds very positive. The old gym not so much. Remember that you are the paying customer. You are not a sheep to be herded around the gym so the gym makes more money having a prep op program.

If she were my dd, I'd let her decide but I would encourage her to try the new gym for the summer. If at the end of the summer, she's unhappy then you tell the old gym that she wants to return. Gyms are businesses seeking to make money. They don't turn away paying kids unless you are a "drama mama" or don't pay the bills on time. I'd tell the old gym that she wants to be a 5, and have the opportunity to work on those skills this summer.

Best of luck to your dd. I hope the kip fairy visits her soon.

thanks, you are right they are a business, and I am debating on insisting they give her a chance for level 5
but as far as her level 4 friends, there are 7 on the team, 1 is moving to lev 5 the other 4 are going prep op. ( one of them I know badly wants to get to level 5) the other 3 want to switch since it has fewer practice days and that leaves my dd and the other girl who is also looking at another gym.

as for the coaching, I could see a difference in the way they do things, and it looked very positive to me. the gym itself is way bigger so there is more equipment, so on bars for instance she got a lot of time with no standing around waiting.

I want it to be her decision, but really I am going to point out all the positives and hopefully she will see it.
for me its a longer drive, twice the money and twice the time, LOL