Comcast is going to cream Disney

[disneymac000]

Yes, they are, and I have high hopes for Uni based on this fact and what they have learned with HP. They just don't have the history, culture, management, and budgets to support full Imagineering like a Pandora. It would be risky, but I hope they do go all out. And as someone else noted and showed pictures, Uni hasn't always done the best job. Of course their space is far more limited than WDW. My son was vocally critical of how they didn't even try to hide the huge HP ride building. It just sits there in plain sight. Very poor Imagineering. But they are doing much better and hopefully will continue to improve.



!

Umm you do know Universal passed on Pandora before James Cameron brought it to Disney??? So not sure you are right about the history, culture, management or budget to support Pandora. When most likely Disney will value engineer it to the point it looks cheap.

 

[rteetz]

Seriously...

A ride through a movie set may actually provide some entertainment value...

Unlike a $20 million dollar pin stand that they then Say has to stay there for 20 years because they spent 20 mil on it.

It would also be nice if Disney updated the Great Movie Ride every once in a while.

Then they also like to put a stage in front of the Big Hat for at least half the year, Star Wars weekends and now Frozen that will be up from April until September.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

DCA was an embarrassing park and they overcharged for it for 10 years...

They don't get a pass for that for throwing the bank at it later...all the while complaining about how much they spent.

How soon you forget.


And you say that HP can't be immersive like pandora...
WHAT?! You're comparing apples to the empty apple basket.
The theming in the fantasyland redo is good...the area lacks the kind of punch it probably needed to though...

But there is no "pandora" at this date. Make them earn it, please?
You can't possible sell that there is no question as to how "awesome" the avatar thing will be.

Come back to center a little, eh?

You misunderstand. I was agreeing with you. They did not "get a pass." They did not get the attendance desired due to their miscalculation. But the excellent Imagineering of Cars Land has now rectified the situation. Everyone I know that has been says Cars Land is amazing. That was the context of the discussion. "King of Imagineering." Which I believe Disney has been since Disney Land opened and still is today.

I am anticipating that Pandora will be ground breaking and awesome because everything I know and read supports that supposition.

Vivendi went cheap on the Jurassic park stuff in Orlando...no argument there...

But what your Saying about animal kingdom is the classic apologists line (company encouraged) jargon that has been laid out there...

People are "too dumb" to appreciate how great it is and why it isn't top notch fun...
That is the line that is used to shield the fact that the gates empty at 1 pm...

I appreciate the detail...but they spent like drunken sailors (reportedly two BILLION) and have some decent "art" and not enough substance...

That is a fact..they opened early and slashed and have haphazardly and infrequently tried to save face...Chester and Hester's cheaporama and Everest...

Actually that idiot rohde spent a fortune on trinkets in the queue of Everest and forgot to "look into the engineering" apparently...

Again...let them stand on their product...don't excuse away obvious flaws.

It's not about "new"...it's not about Steel screamers a la cedar point...

It's about quality...and it hasn't been as earth shattering as you make it for some time.

The only reason "new" comes into play is that they've sat on their hands for WAAAYYYY too long...and that opens the door. Nobody's fault but there's...didnt have to have basically an unfinished high overhead park in animal kingdom after 15 years...they could have phased in at least two decent expansions/revisions by now without breaking a financial sweat...
But no.

Didnt have to mothball pleasure island and sit for 5 years...but did

Didnt have to shutter things and bone the "reinvention" of future world at EPCOT over 15 years and then Kinda give up...
Did...hopefully there's gonna be movement on that soon.

In closing...why is the honey I shrunk the audience playground still there?

Haven't gotten the $1100 bucks of return back on that investment yet?

I rest...and take my blood pressure medication

Animal Kingdom is one of the greatest theme parks in the world and one of the greatest collection of examples of Imagineering. When Pandora opens it will be THE greatest theme park in the world. Of course, this is coming from a National Parks, backpacking, zoo loving, animal spotting fan. They miscalculated the costs, but the result is fantastic. I think people looking for the next ride to ride miss all that is wonderful. But again that is just me. Again, I am talking about Imagineering quality - not cost or budgets or time frames. Whatever may be wrong, Animal Kingdom is an amazing place to visit. No one but Disney could have built such a theme park.

Umm you do know Universal passed on Pandora before James Cameron brought it to Disney??? So not sure you are right about the history, culture, management or budget to support Pandora. When most likely Disney will value engineer it to the point it looks cheap.

I am not sure I was clear. It is Disney that has a long history, a culture of Imagineering excellence, management that knows the value of the whole package, and a parent company with the financial chops to do budgets beyond anything Universal is capable of.

If you know anything about James Cameron, you know they will not, "value engineer it to the point it looks cheap." Everything about Cameron and this project from what has been published and what I know of Cameron, promises something that will knock your socks off.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Animal kingdom is NOT one of the "greatest themeparks on earth"

It is immersive...but neither offers enough to amaze nor is committed to animals enough. You can forgive one of those three criteria...but not two.

What they did...in 1993...was commit to doing both in "Disney" style...that was the only way that your description would have worked. They had to knock it out from both angles to get the appeal...because Zoos are tough

Then what they "did" do...is short it and then decide that the label on the front was enough.

That was Eisner...who had bad council after chasing away all the good Lts around that time.

Don't think?
Studios paris, DCA, ak, and hkdl all were the same...green lighted but killed by "ok... Enough money...throw open the gates"

Ak still has potential...
But even avatar is suspect for a smoke and mirrors show...

Cameron is paying or giving major Financial concessions here...don't buy the hype.

He's a nut and wants it built badly and they want coupons to build things...this is mutual desperation if you're honest here. He can't get many takers on his "grand vision"... Even with a billion dollar box office...and they have a hard time spending a dime at animal kingdom because it doesn't boost their stock prices and golden parachutes.

The safari ride is great... As is the bug show and some of the lesser known elements...

But keep up the line...it's "immersive like your in another country"
I'm not saying that isn't necessarily true (though I'm not confused about being in Osceola county at all)...but it is just not good enough.

Without the compound and the hopper...they would have a severe problem. It's not like very many people go on one dayers anymore.

EPCOT is world class, magic kingdom certainly is...
Disneyland of course, Tokyo, I love euro though some don't appreciate that, disney sea...
Shanghai looks "promising"

The others have a ways to go...
And at the head of that column based on money and infrastructure invested...

Is the lion king memorial park.

 

[Suvadoo]

Personally, I think Universal Orlando should only be compared to WDW. And IMO WDW is stagnant in comparison to Universal. I'm not talking about what they have, but what's been done at WDW over the past 5 years. Every time there's an announcement, it's about a new meet and greet or a dessert party. But there's nothing about attractions.

I really hope that Pandora is as great as everyone thinks it will be and I also hope Disney does a Star Wars Land. However, I have not heard an official SD announcement. Did I miss something? I also wonder how long it will take for these projects to be completed. I can't believe it will take another 3 years to complete Pandora!! This was announced 3 years ago, this is truly ridiculous!

 

[rteetz]

Animal kingdom is NOT one of the "greatest themeparks on earth"

It is immersive...but neither offers enough to amaze nor is committed to animals enough. You can forgive one of those three criteria...but not two.

What they did...in 1993...was commit to doing both in "Disney" style...that was the only way that your description would have worked. They had to knock it out from both angles to get the appeal...because Zoos are tough

Then what they "did" do...is short it and then decide that the label on the front was enough.

That was Eisner...who had bad council after chasing away all the good Lts around that time.

Don't think?
Studios paris, DCA, ak, and hkdl all were the same...green lighted but killed by "ok... Enough money...throw open the gates"

Ak still has potential...
But even avatar is suspect for a smoke and mirrors show...

Cameron is paying or giving major Financial concessions here...don't buy the hype.

He's a nut and wants it built badly and they want coupons to build things...this is mutual desperation if you're honest here. He can't get many takers on his "grand vision"... Even with a billion dollar box office...and they have a hard time spending a dime at animal kingdom because it doesn't boost their stock prices and golden parachutes.

The safari ride is great... As is the bug show and some of the lesser known elements...

But keep up the line...it's "immersive like your in another country"
I'm not saying that isn't necessarily true (though I'm not confused about being in Osceola county at all)...but it is just not good enough.

Without the compound and the hopper...they would have a severe problem. It's not like very many people go on one dayers anymore.

EPCOT is world class, magic kingdom certainly is...
Disneyland of course, Tokyo, I love euro though some don't appreciate that, disney sea...
Shanghai looks "promising"

The others have a ways to go...
And at the head of that column based on money and infrastructure invested...

Is the lion king memorial park.

I love AK and do think it is a great theme park. I want to know what you think makes it not committed to animals? I also think it has enough to amaze. I don't care if it only has 7 attractions the details are quite amazing. EE is a great attraction, kilimanjaro is a fun experience.
I agree their is a lot of potential and I wish they would've went with Beastly kingdom right off the bat. Im excited for Avatar and what it will bring. Finally AK will have night time experiences. Eisner was of course great at building things and then saying oh wait lets just open it because we don't want to put any more money into it. That leads us to now where Disney is putting a lot of money into these parks, DCA being the biggest one.
I agree with most of what you said especially that AK has a lot of potential and Shanghai looks promising.
Even tho I have never been there (hope to some day) I think Tokyo has the best disney parks because the Oriental company constantly is putting money into them and making them better than they were before.

 

[clsteve]

Then there is technology. Yes, Universal bought a cool robotic arm from a company (Disney bid, too, I read.) and it makes for cool rides, but Disney's animatronics are generations beyond anything else. (Maybe Uni's desire to use 3D and screens in Spidy and HP is smart because they know they can't compete with animatronics.) It may not be important to some, but the next gen animatronics with the flexible skin is amazing! The Wardrobe and Lumiere in the new meet and greet for Belle, the Cars' mouths in Cars Land, the flowing hair on Ariel, the Dwarves on 7DMT are unlike anywhere else.

So, overall, not just recently or last 10 years, and not just in Orlando, Disney's theming and Imagineering is still two generations ahead of everyone else.

And Pandora is going to put them further ahead. THEN, whenever it gets here (!?) Star Wars will do the same.

I am excited about the possibilities as Universal is picking up their game. Maybe they will do something top-tier or even ground breaking when they redo JP. But whatever they do, right now they still have a long way to go.

You might want to check out the goblin animatronics within DA. They're the most advanced and realistic ever done, especially the one in the Money exchange that actually looks you in the eye, has full flow motion, and has complete, individual, interactive conversations with the guests.

Saying Uni has a long way to go is a circa 2009 conversation. WDW is not 2 generations ahead -- now, they're at least one behind. It's virtually unanimous in the community: every Industry analyst, blogger, and Theme Park "expert" has stated that DA is the new bar and standard for theme-ing, immersion and Imagineering. I couldn't find one that doesn't say so. And, with building on what they'd already done with WWoHP and the other new attractions, it's not a "one of" but a now established track record.

Optimistically, I hope it's a good kick in the head for Burbank - the fact that there's a new standard being set by someone else. Again optimistically, one would hope that means good things for Avatar, that instead of rumors of things getting cut from the plans, things would be added and quality raised.

I don't know, we'll see. The Disney/Cameron dynamic through this project is a wild card. How much oversight does/will he have? JK Rowling oversight? When things are tight, deadlines are crunching and tough decisions to be made (and, he's also deep into the movie projects), will he have final say as she (and WB) do and did? It will be interesting to watch...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think Tokyo has the best disney parks because the Oriental company constantly is putting money into them and making them better than they were before.

I pulled this sentence out....
...it deserves it's own slot

 

[AndreaA]

Personally, I think Universal Orlando should only be compared to WDW. And IMO WDW is stagnant in comparison to Universal. I'm not talking about what they have, but what's been done at WDW over the past 5 years. Every time there's an announcement, it's about a new meet and greet or a dessert party. But there's nothing about attractions.

I really hope that Pandora is as great as everyone thinks it will be and I also hope Disney does a Star Wars Land. However, I have not heard an official SD announcement. Did I miss something? I also wonder how long it will take for these projects to be completed. I can't believe it will take another 3 years to complete Pandora!! This was announced 3 years ago, this is truly ridiculous!

Agreed on all points. I haven't been to Universal in years (young kiddos) but I've seen videos of some of the Harry Potter stuff and it is AMAZING even in video. I can well imagine that their new animatronics are fantastic and I can't believe anyone is saying Disney World's is better. Seriously? 99.9% of the animatronics are decades old and not what anyone would call "cutting edge". Jungle Cruise is embarrassing, Pirates is boring, Pooh and PeterPan are basically the same as they've always been - nostalgic, but OLD. There is basically one attraction with new, good animatronics (Belle) and then even the new mine coaster uses PROJECTED FACES instead of actual animatronics! Talk about a copout.

I love Disney. Absolutely LOVE it. I was excited to bring my boys there and just as excited to bring them back and am excited planning our next trip. BUT, I would never argue that DisneyWorld is factually the best amusement park, or even better than Universal. The rides are TOTALLY different and the experiences are TOTALLY different and while Disney has it all over Universal in terms of nostalgia and young-family-appeal, Universal is where the true innovation seems to be happening.

I am hoping that Disney will do something amazing - and not take ten years at it, but honestly I could not care less about Avatarland (Really? The movie had good special effects and that's pretty much IT) or even StarWars land.

 

[tup1830]

You might want to check out the goblin animatronics within DA. They're the most advanced and realistic ever done, especially the one in the Money exchange that actually looks you in the eye, has full flow motion, and has complete, individual, interactive conversations with the guests.

Saying Uni has a long way to go is a circa 2009 conversation. WDW is not 2 generations ahead -- now, they're at least one behind. It's virtually unanimous in the community: every Industry analyst, blogger, and Theme Park "expert" has stated that DA is the new bar and standard for theme-ing, immersion and Imagineering. I couldn't find one that doesn't say so. And, with building on what they'd already done with WWoHP and the other new attractions, it's not a "one of" but a now established track record.

Optimistically, I hope it's a good kick in the head for Burbank - the fact that there's a new standard being set by someone else. Again optimistically, one would hope that means good things for Avatar, that instead of rumors of things getting cut from the plans, things would be added and quality raised.

I don't know, we'll see. The Disney/Cameron dynamic through this project is a wild card. How much oversight does/will he have? JK Rowling oversight? When things are tight, deadlines are crunching and tough decisions to be made (and, he's also deep into the movie projects), will he have final say as she (and WB) do and did? It will be interesting to watch...

Umm, i'm no animitronic professional...but touting the best and most advanced, but many times hardly working isn't really doing it for me. The Yetti is a prime example and many are saying that the dwarfs aren't entirely working.

I agree with many others that it seems Disney is about cashing in on meet/greets and dining events. A new one for Frozen in HS, Harambe, Epcot after hours, star wars dining...i get it but its not innovation.

 

[Andrew015]

Disney has been "killing it" - record attendance, profitability, etc. - with minimal investment for years. Yes, I know all about Disney Springs, Fantasyland, Avatarland, Polynesian refurb, etc. etc., but fact of the matter is, they've spent as little capital as possible over the past decade in order to maximize profitability, and people still came and continue to come in droves. We all complain about this mentality of what appears to be a short-sighted, greedy operational approach, but ask yourself the following question - if you were piloting the ship, would you choose to do anything any differently? I mean you're winning the race by bus lengths...large, double-decker buses... would you really steer the ship in a 180 "just because" it seems like the right thing to do? All of your gauges and instruments are telling you that the ship's vitals couldn't be any better - attendance, sales, profitability, market share.... what can really be gained by grabbing the wheel now?

Universal, on the other hand, had no choice in the matter - completely unlike Disney. The options were either A.) invest as little as possible (like Disney) and continue to get the leftover scraps from the 800 lb gorilla down I4, or B.) invest a significant amount of capital and become relevant. Backs against the wall, they chose the latter path, and we all see the end results. Universal has become more than just a 1-day distraction while spending a week at Disney. It has become a legitimate destination worthy of multiple days and has taken a small but noticable share of Disney's pie.

Should Disney be concerned? My own opinion: No. A healthy Universal also means a healthy Disney. While Universal may continue to eat away at the "bus length" lead that Disney has, so long as the ship's vitals - Sales, EBITDA, attendance all continue to shine brightly - there is no reason for panic.

That's not to say that Disney's top brass isn't keeping a watchful eye on their competition down the street. Quite the contrary. We are starting to see the purse strings open (Avatar, Disney Springs, Poly, changes coming in EPCOT... rumors of more in either Carsland or Starwars Land, and I'm sure a pipeline full of other things that aren't even on our radar screen. The luxury that Disney has - unlike Universal - is time. It's frustrating to see all of the rapid growth and expansion at Universal in such a short period of time, yet it takes Disney 2-3 years (sometimes more) to go from shovels hitting the dirt to ribbon-cutting. The pressure from Universal will force Disney's hand in continuing to deliver new guest experiences. Sure, they might not come down the pipeline as quickly as we'd like to see them, but Disney will do "just enough" to keep us coming back year-in and year-out, and to ensure that their "lead" over Universal never comes into question.

 

[Figmentforever24]

Umm, i'm no animitronic professional...but touting the best and most advanced, but many times hardly working isn't really doing it for me. The Yetti is a prime example and many are saying that the dwarfs aren't entirely working.

I agree with many others that it seems Disney is about cashing in on meet/greets and dining events. A new one for Frozen in HS, Harambe, Epcot after hours, star wars dining...i get it but its not innovation.

Ok even if what people are saying is true ad these are the most advanced AA's ever......and. Universal makes one ride with AA's in the queue and suddenly they are the star of all things AA. And as far as being advanced...your wrong. The one at the end was the most advanced and impressive...the others you could laugh at and im talking from experience. I went in there and I can tell you the most that many of them did was twist their head a little and blink. Many didn't even move their head up!

P.S. Animal Kingdom is by FAR the most beautiful theme park in the United States. Taker away Dino Rama and you have a theme park that is fully fleshed out with detail and immersive areas.

 

[rteetz]

Ok even if what people are saying is true ad these are the most advanced AA's ever......and. Universal makes one ride with AA's in the queue and suddenly they are the star of all things AA. And as far as being advanced...your wrong. The one at the end was the most advanced and impressive...the others you could laugh at and im talking from experience. I went in there and I can tell you the most that many of them did was twist their head a little and blink. Many didn't even move their head up! P.S. Animal Kingdom is by FAR the most beautiful theme park in the United States. Taker away Dino Rama and you have a theme park that is fully fleshed out with detail and immersive areas.

I second this. I heard from multiple people that when they rode the mine train for the first time and even a couple times after that they didn't notice the faces on the dwarfs were projected until someone told them. That means disney did their job. Yes universal did a great job with the goblins but like figment said most of them just move their heads a little and such, only one really does great things. Disney normally doesn't take shortcuts when it comes to animatronics. Jack sparrow in POTC, and the wicked witch in GMR are two great animatronics that disney has in WDW. The hall of presidents has all of the US presidents as animatronics that is fantastic the technology in there. In the American adventure Ben Franklin has every detail to him down pat including the correct underwear he wore.

 

[Andrew015]

In the American adventure Ben Franklin has every detail to him down pat including the correct underwear he wore.

How do we go about verifying this?

 

[Figmentforever24]

How do we go about verifying this?

Do a little digging on the web and you might find out.

 

[Disneychick75]

Do a little digging on the web and you might find out.

I've looked and can't find anything about the underwear. If someone has a link and would like to share it, please do.

 

[Suvadoo]

Disney has been "killing it" - record attendance, profitability, etc. - with minimal investment for years.

Here's what the Orlando Sentinel reported:
Disney World's share of Orlando theme-park traffic shrank from 74.9 percent in 2009, the year before the first Wizarding World debuted, to 71.3 percent in 2012. Universal's piece of the pie, meanwhile, grew from 16 percent to 20.8 percent during the same period.

Driven almost entirely by Universal's growth, total Orlando attendance rose 7.2 percent, from 63.5 million in 2009 to 68 million in 2012. Disney World's attendance grew modestly during the period, while SeaWorld's declined.
Every person who posts on these boards is an anomaly. We will continue to visit Disney, maybe not as frequently as before, but we will still go.

I really wonder how many repeat visitors WDW is losing because of their lack of innovation. I don't think the average tourist is really excited to experience: the Polynesian DVC, Harambe Nights, the new Frozen spectacular at HS, and best of all MAGIC BANDS!

Yes WDW is big, but they'd better start shoveling money back into their Orlando property. I am sick of being offered nothing better than a new hard ticket event and I think a lot of people feel the same way.

 

[Figmentforever24]

I've looked and can't find anything about the underwear. If someone has a link and would like to share it, please do.

Ill try to find the site I saw it on when I did a history report on the American Adventure. =) Either way underwear or not the point I think he was trying to make was Disney is very detailed about their AA's. Lets not let this become the thread on underwear.

 

[Andrew015]

Here's what the Orlando Sentinel reported:
Disney World's share of Orlando theme-park traffic shrank from 74.9 percent in 2009, the year before the first Wizarding World debuted, to 71.3 percent in 2012. Universal's piece of the pie, meanwhile, grew from 16 percent to 20.8 percent during the same period.

Again, a 3% drop in market share over a 3-year period (while still owning 71% of the total market) is winning the race by bus lengths.... lots of bus lengths. What this statistic does not show you is that despite losing a very small piece of market share, Disney's Orlando parks actually had decent upticks in attendance from 2012 to 2013 as well:

• MK attendance rose from 17.5M people in 2012 to 18.5M people in 2013 (6% growth, or 1 million more visitors vs 2012)
• EPCOT, AK and HS attendance rose by roughly ~200K per park from 2012 to 2013 (2% growth per park, or 600K more visitors than 2012)

Sure, by looking at percentages alone, it appears that Universal Orlando is taking it to Disney, but your statistcs do not tell the entire story. While everyone is looking at how well Universal Orlando did for 2013 by percentage alone (14% growth), they only added 867K new visitors to Universal and 160K visitors to IAO, for a combined total of 1.2 million new visitors for Universal. By comparison, Disney added 1.6 million new visitors to their Orlando parks in 2013, which equates to 33% more new visitors as compared to Universal.

With Disney's draw being so much larger than Universal, it takes HUGE numbers to really move the needle for Disney in terms of percentage. I would say that a 6% uptick (1 million new visitors) in MK attendance - despite a stagnant economy - is probably even more remarkable than a 14% uptick at Universal, especially considering that Universal dumped TONS of money in capital expansion to gain 1.2 million new visitors. Disney invested very little by comparison, yet gained 1.6 million new visitors. Again I ask, "What is Disney's incentive to change anything?"

Lastly, what's not to say that the increase in visitors to Universal did not lead to some, part or most of the increases seen by Disney? Again, I truly believe that a healthy Universal leads to a healthy Disney (and vice versa), which again leads to my belief that no one at Disney is too "up-in-arms" about Universal's 3% uptick in market share. This whole "Universal is crushing Disney" nonsense is really nothing but smoke in mirrors to me.

I really wonder how many repeat visitors WDW is losing because of their lack of innovation. I don't think the average tourist is really excited to experience: the Polynesian DVC, Harambe Nights, the new Frozen spectacular at HS, and best of all MAGIC BANDS!

While I agree with you in principle, the numbers suggest that not only is Disney getting repeat visitors, but they are also adding new visitors.

Yes WDW is big, but they'd better start shoveling money back into their Orlando property. I am sick of being offered nothing better than a new hard ticket event and I think a lot of people feel the same way.

Again, I agree with this thought and feel that Disney is finally starting to loosen the purse strings. Perhaps the projects that we see in the pipeline now are not enough to get anyone truly excited (Avatar, Disney Springs, Poly DVC, Hub Expansion, etc. etc.), but at least it is a step in the right direction as compared to a decade of nothingness.

 

[tup1830]

While Disney is able to make tons of money from staying steady...from adding marginal improvements...the top brass may be happy with the profits.

Why shouldn't they just be happy with the droves of people coming and parting with their money? Because Walt's words were about innovation, giving people different experiences and thinking outside the box. For a park dedicated to a man who was all about being super innovative and touting that fact in many places in/around the world, its something that you come to expect of the place.

mind you i'm saying this as a person that flies down to Disney at least 4-5 times a year...but when you read about the life of WED, hear the stories from the tours, and see the ways that he was beyond his time, you come to expect a tradition to follow in that path...not the $$$ path.

Yes its a corporation with investors, but people like Amazon's CEO don't always live or die on the investors word...but do something that they believe in. We know imagineering isn't dry...we know its rich with so many ideas...lets see them!!!