College TA's

[ajk912]

I go to a community college and we don't have TAs, let alone have them grade. Professors only take the amount of classes they can handle themselves. I haven't seen a class of more than 30 students, and full time professors (so I hear) generally teaches 5 classes. Obviously a community college is state subsidized, and my portion is $107 a credit hour. I don't understand how a community college can make do with smaller classes sizes and the lack of TAs, while charging a THIRD of what a regular state school does. Let alone what private schools charge. And it can't be lack of education either..I'd say probably a good 1/4 of the professors I've had/will take have their doctorates, you really can't get much higher than that!!! Maybe I am lucky, I am not sure.

 

[badcramps]

I go to a community college and we don't have TAs, let alone have them grade. Professors only take the amount of classes they can handle themselves. I haven't seen a class of more than 30 students, and full time professors (so I hear) generally take 5 classes. Obviously a community college is state subsidized, and my portion is $107 a credit hour. I don't understand how a community college can make do with smaller classes sizes and the lack of TAs, while charging a THIRD of what a regular state school does. Let alone what private schools charge. And it can't be lack of education either..I'd say probably a good 1/4 of the professors I've had/will take have their doctorates, you really can't get much higher than that!!! Maybe I am lucky, I am not sure.

At many of the universities in question--large private universities, flagship state universities, etc.--EVERY professor has a Ph.D. (or terminal degree in their field).

But that is not really the important difference. When it comes to tenure, promotion, or being marketable for a job in the first place, often the most important thing for professors at top-ranked private universities is or state flagship universities is their own research and then their ability to successfully mentor graduate students and get them academic jobs (assuming an academic-oriented Ph.D. program). Undergraduate teaching comes way lower on the list, which is not to say it is unimportant or not cared about.

At a Community College, on the other hand, professors are typically not required to do ANY research of their own in order to get tenure or promotion. They also do not have to supervise dissertations or undergraduate theses. There is less committee work because there are no grad students and there is not a full on major in their field as in a bachelors institution. So they are able to teach more classes and do more grading because their position does not include many of the duties a position at a top research university includes.


To the original question, am a recent Ph.D. and TA-ed while a grad student for undergraduate courses as well as taught my own courses. As a TA I did all grading and held recitation sections (of ~25-30 students) for lectures that had about 500 students. In my department, professors who taught the lectures also taught one recitation course and did the grading only for that course. All of the TAs in my department were Ph.D. grad students in the department or in a closely related department. In the first few years, one would TA in the manner above. Then after one had the equivalent of an MA (3-4 years of grad school), one could teach courses completely on one's own.

Basically TA-ing is how a future professor learns to teach. It is expected when a freshly minted Ph.D. applies to tenure-track jobs that they have had a good amount of teaching experience already. Expertise is not generally an issue, because (at least in my experience) one is teaching say a 100 or 200 level class aimed at freshman and sophomores when one is a 2nd or 3rd year grad student (about MA level). One surely has the expertise for such a low level class. The real issue is learning how to be a good teacher and that is something you have to learn on the job. If future profs didn't learn this as grad students, they'd have to learn it in the first few years of being a professor--either way, some group of students will have to experience their first semester or two of teaching while they are learning.

I was never taught by a TA because I went to a very small liberal arts college where there were no grad students (though I think undergrads sometimes TA-ed in science classes, which I never took). Personally I preferred my experience as a student because of the smaller courses (~25 was a very big class for me whereas it is quite a small class where I did grad school), not because they were taught by professors instead of TAs.

 

[tvguy]

At many of the universities in question--large private universities, flagship state universities, etc.--EVERY professor has a Ph.D. (or terminal degree in their field).

But that is not really the important difference. When it comes to tenure, promotion, or being marketable for a job in the first place, often the most important thing for professors at top-ranked private universities is or state flagship universities is their own research and then their ability to successfully mentor graduate students and get them academic jobs (assuming an academic-oriented Ph.D. program). Undergraduate teaching comes way lower on the list, which is not to say it is unimportant or not cared about.

At a Community College, on the other hand, professors are typically not required to do ANY research of their own in order to get tenure or promotion. They also do not have to supervise dissertations or undergraduate theses. There is less committee work because there are no grad students and there is not a full on major in their field as in a bachelors institution. So they are able to teach more classes and do more grading because their position does not include many of the duties a position at a top research university includes.


To the original question, am a recent Ph.D. and TA-ed while a grad student for undergraduate courses as well as taught my own courses. As a TA I did all grading and held recitation sections (of ~25-30 students) for lectures that had about 500 students. In my department, professors who taught the lectures also taught one recitation course and did the grading only for that course. All of the TAs in my department were Ph.D. grad students in the department or in a closely related department. In the first few years, one would TA in the manner above. Then after one had the equivalent of an MA (3-4 years of grad school), one could teach courses completely on one's own.

Basically TA-ing is how a future professor learns to teach. It is expected when a freshly minted Ph.D. applies to tenure-track jobs that they have had a good amount of teaching experience already. Expertise is not generally an issue, because (at least in my experience) one is teaching say a 100 or 200 level class aimed at freshman and sophomores when one is a 2nd or 3rd year grad student (about MA level). One surely has the expertise for such a low level class. The real issue is learning how to be a good teacher and that is something you have to learn on the job. If future profs didn't learn this as grad students, they'd have to learn it in the first few years of being a professor--either way, some group of students will have to experience their first semester or two of teaching while they are learning.

I was never taught by a TA because I went to a very small liberal arts college where there were no grad students (though I think undergrads sometimes TA-ed in science classes, which I never took). Personally I preferred my experience as a student because of the smaller courses (~25 was a very big class for me whereas it is quite a small class where I did grad school), not because they were taught by professors instead of TAs.

Sad, but true. I went to a private University, there were no TA's, the Professors taught the classes, graded the tests and papers, and even gave you their home phone numbers to call if you needed help. Research or publishing had zero impact on promotions, high graduation rates, and high success rates by students on things like the LSAT were priorities.
That was 1975. 83 percent of the entering freshman would stay and complete their degrees.
Sent my son there in 2005. TA's everywhere, Professors heavy into research and publishing, some Professors never stepped into a classroom. Only 41 percent of the entering freshman stay and complete their degrees.

 

[dismom2]

This is very interesting. Thanks for all the input!

To be honest, I think I learned a lot more, and enjoyed the experience more when I did my pre-req's through a community college--back in the day. I tend to prefer smaller classes and more professor interaction. Most of my professors were former University professors, so I was getting the same education, but better because of the smaller classes.

My niece said that her TA's grade everything--including the essays and research projects. Two of her classes have only 1 TA each, so I would assume they are just as busy grading all of those papers as the professor would be if he was grading them. Where do they find the time? Also, in two of her classes, the students were instructed to contact the TA if they have any questions of concerns. I'm still having trouble understanding the fact that the professors have such little to do with their classes. If they are busy doing research, that should be their job because they really aren't teaching, grading, or helping their students much if they are absent teachers.

I do understand the part about the TA's needing experience, but I'm surprised that they do almost all the work. They are basically your teacher then? And if they write/design tests and assignments as well-- they are indeed the teachers in my opinion.

One of her TA's is a full time student, so she has a lot of her own research and assignments to do. Where does she find time to grade all those papers by herself? I just don't understand completely.

 

[daughter_of_amid_chaos]

One of her TA's is a full time student, so she has a lot of her own research and assignments to do. Where does she find time to grade all those papers by herself? I just don't understand completely.

I currently teach 3 classes (of 32 students each) at a local community college. I do not have a TA. I also am a full time PhD candidate with classes and homework of my own and I work full time at a second job.

I see it as preparation for when I am working and have a family.

My students respect me more because I have classes and homework plus two jobs. They feel I understand what they are going through. I also make sure to have all assignments, tests, etc. handed back at the latest a week after it was due. I try for the next class but that depends on how many make-up exams I need to give and so on. When I have a big assignment due that week, I let them know so they understand they will be receiving their assignments back in a week as opposed to the next class.

 

[dismom2]

I currently teach 3 classes (of 32 students each) at a local community college. I do not have a TA. I also am a full time PhD candidate with classes and homework of my own and I work full time at a second job.

I see it as preparation for when I am working and have a family.

My students respect me more because I have classes and homework plus two jobs. They feel I understand what they are going through. I also make sure to have all assignments, tests, etc. handed back at the latest a week after it was due. I try for the next class but that depends on how many make-up exams I need to give and so on. When I have a big assignment due that week, I let them know so they understand they will be receiving their assignments back in a week as opposed to the next class.

My gosh--do you sleep at all? That's a heavy load you've got there.

I think it's great that you return papers in a timely manner, too!

 

[Disney Daniel]

One of her TA's is a full time student, so she has a lot of her own research and assignments to do. Where does she find time to grade all those papers by herself? I just don't understand completely.

I was always a full time student when I did my teaching assistant work, graduate school included. It was busy, however as noted above it is good practice for later in life. There were some nights I was up until 2am correcting assignments, however as I was paid pretty well for my efforts (this depends on the school, the larger school I worked for paid the TA's much more than the smaller school) I did not have to worry about working in an outside job to help offset the cost of my education which was a big help. Also, we had to have two office hours a week and quite often no students showed up, which meant I was able to do my own assignments while I waited for students to come in.

 

[Alphabetsoup]

I've been on both sides.

I went to a small state school majoring in communication. There were several TAs in the department, but they only graded multiple choice tests, the profs graded our written assignments.

As a TA during my PhD studies, I graded papers for a journalism professor. We would 'triangulate' our grades. Basically I graded half and the prof graded half. When finished, we sorted them into piles according to A, B, etc.... and we went through all of them (spent about 2 minutes per assignment on this stage) to make sure that my grading was on par with hers. Since she would brief me at the start of each grading session, I always knew what she wanted and we never had to change a grade.

Now as a professor at a small state school, I'm on the other side of things. At my school we have lots of grad assistants, but they are not allowed to do any grading other than multiple-choice tests. I have a GA who basically handles all of the paperwork for our internship program (I'm the coordinator) and another one who assists with a university wide grant program I am running.

Here is the catch...I am expected to produce as much research as a professor at a major state research institution (who frequently has lots of grad student lab rats doing their research or helping with it), with NONE of the support and NO teaching/grading relief. In the next 2 years I am expected to write/get published 3 articles (in top tier journals) AND have at least 1 book published and another in the works....HELLO...all that on top of doing LOTS of university committee work (I run 2 programs, am on 4 other committees AND am expected to apply for grant funding) .... oh yeah AND community service.

So, I am expected to do all that, PLUS all of my own grading. At the moment I have some 150 2-6 page articles to grade by Monday (preferably). BUT I am also expected to fully edit the articles (since my students are too lazy or incompetent to run spell-check themselves) AND provide extensive feedback. So it takes me around 20-30 minutes to grade ONE assignment (you do the math...that is ALOT of hours devoted to grading).

Basically, if you dislike working with TA's...then send your kids to a small school that doesn't rely on them. But understand this...if your kids (or you) go to a small state school that doesn't value research, they may find their options limited if they decide to go to grad school. That is just the trade-off you make.

 

[disfan07]

I'm in college right now and yes, most of the time TAs grade everything. There have been exceptions like last quarter when one of my classes was taught by a PhD student, she only had 1 TA with 170 students so they both graded assignments.

However, if there is a problem, my professors are willing to go over it with you. They request that you go to the TA who graded your assignment first but if you still have questions you can go to the professor.

So far it's worked out fine. Actually, for one of my classes I am really gald it was the TA s who did the grading because the professor was a real jerk

One of my professors at my community college would be an amazing professor at a 4 year school but she said she never wants to do it because she feels that there is a huge lack of personal connection to the students and knowledge about each class at large universities. Yes, she said there are days where she does wish she had a TA when she has 250 papers to grade (6 classes) but she loves that she gets to have this great connection with her students.