Collecting Fastpasses?

[ShelsGoingToDisney]

I did actually get turned away on Sunday, 3/29, from Big Thunder Railroad. Our FP was for a return of 8-9. It was right on 10:00 when we returned. They had EMH that night and park closed at 10. We were eligible for EMH but BTR closed the fast pass line at 10 with no exceptions even though the stand-by line was 30 minutes. Now we were able to use our fast pass at Space Mtn that same night during the EMH. I was ready to fight them on that one if they turned me away because we were actually there during the return time but the ride was down. I had no questions asked though so no need to fight. BTR is the first and only time I've ever been turned away after the FP time. I guess you just can't count on being able to use the fast pass after the official park close even during EMH.

 

[Surr]

...However, it seems that the lack of enforcement altogether has emboldened people to PLAN to use their FPs after the return window. This isn't in the spirit of the system and can really gum up the highly-calculated FP lines later in the day...

Actually, the way the queues work, returning late has no detrimental effect on wait times in the fast pass lines, unless at some point the fast pass queue completely empties after your time slot. Using you fast pass later only allows people who go before you to get on the ride a little sooner than they would have.

I suppose if enough people saved all their fast passes for the end of the day such that there was zero wait in the fast pass lines, then it would have an effect. As long as there is at least a brief wait, then using passes late doesn't make the fast pass wait longer.

 

[doconeill]

Actually, the way the queues work, returning late has no detrimental effect on wait times in the fast pass lines, unless at some point the fast pass queue completely empties after your time slot. Using you fast pass later only allows people who go before you to get on the ride a little sooner than they would have.

I suppose if enough people saved all their fast passes for the end of the day such that there was zero wait in the fast pass lines, then it would have an effect. As long as there is at least a brief wait, then using passes late doesn't make the fast pass wait longer.

You sound like someone who actually read and understood my analysis...

Although it is if the STANDBY line empties that there could be an impact, but the impact is extremely minor, and what Fastpass attraction has a Standby line with no one in it?

As far as the "policy" - CMs are TRAINED to take late Fastpasses. There are some who pay attention in training more than others, however. The attraction managers can choose to refuse late Fastpasses, but that is rarely (and increasingly rarely) done.

And for the PP and the late FP at 10pm - they are only good until the main park closing. If it is an EMH night, AND the attraction is open, AND they are using Fastpass, you MIGHT still be able to use the earlier Fastpass. But if Fastpass is not being used, the line is closed and unmanned.

 

[thorphin]

I don't know that I agree with your analysis as justification for using fastpasses late, doconeill. Help me out.

X number of fastpasses are given with a return time between Y:YY and Z:ZZ (I haven't been since 2005 - they DO still have a start and end time for the return, right?).

You miss the window, but instead show up during an arbitrary window later in the day. For that window, there are now X+1 guests waiting in line. For everyone who shows up with Fastpasses after you, they have to wait longer because you added yourself to the count of people set for the later window. And actually, it doesn't just affect the people in the that window, but for all the windows afterwards.

If 50 people decide to use their AM fastpass in the evening, 50 people don't necessarily get to ride earlier. Someone with an 8:00pm return can't show up at 7:00 because 50 people didn't use their fastpasses. So, if those 50 people come back at the end of the day, you end up with X+50 people trying to get through the Fastpass line during that window. The problem is caused by you getting there when you're not supposed to.

Even after reading your analysis, I don't see how the standby line even enters into the discussion.

It seems so simple. What is wrong about what I've said?


Also... I'd appreciate someone pointing me to this policy that says FPs are accepted for the rest day after the beginning time on your return window passes.

I don't see it here: http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/guest-services/fast-pass/ , and I assume that the fact that the FP says return between Y:YY and Z:ZZ is there for a reason.

I don't mean to be rude or again engage in this recurring debate, but I still don't see the argument that it isn't detrimental to use FPs during the wrong time, even if a particular CM allows it.

 

[inkedupmomma]

I was told by every CM I spoke to last September that you can use the FP anytime after the time printed on the FP and we did.. we rarely showed up to our ride with the time that was printed..guess I better not press my luck next year

 

[Tbelle1976]

I guess my question would be - I understand that it may be rare, but if a CM is allowed to turn you away from the FP line if you show up AFTER you alloted time on the FP, then is it not "policy" that you should actually show up at that specific time then? I mean, are they really allowed to turn you away from a show/ride just because they want to if your "supposed" to be able to use the FP for the rest of the day?

It seems to me that times are printed on the FP for a reason, otherwise wouldn't it just say to come back "anytime after 2:00 p.m.?"

 

[lacrosse_lady72]

Also... I'd appreciate someone pointing me to this policy that says FPs are accepted for the rest day after the beginning time on your return window passes.

I don't see it here: http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/guest-services/fast-pass/ , and I assume that the fact that the FP says return between Y:YY and Z:ZZ is there for a reason.

I don't mean to be rude or again engage in this recurring debate, but I still don't see the argument that it isn't detrimental to use FPs during the wrong time, even if a particular CM allows it.

I would like to see this too. I am not saying I don't believe anyone, I am just curious when all these people are always talking about "Disney policy" yet they NEVER have any proof or cite anything to back it up.

 

[doconeill]

I don't know that I agree with your analysis as justification for using fastpasses late, doconeill. Help me out.

X number of fastpasses are given with a return time between Y:YY and Z:ZZ (I haven't been since 2005 - they DO still have a start and end time for the return, right?).

You miss the window, but instead show up during an arbitrary window later in the day. For that window, there are now X+1 guests waiting in line. For everyone who shows up with Fastpasses after you, they have to wait longer because you added yourself to the count of people set for the later window. And actually, it doesn't just affect the people in the that window, but for all the windows afterwards.

If 50 people decide to use their AM fastpass in the evening, 50 people don't necessarily get to ride earlier. Someone with an 8:00pm return can't show up at 7:00 because 50 people didn't use their fastpasses. So, if those 50 people come back at the end of the day, you end up with X+50 people trying to get through the Fastpass line during that window. The problem is caused by you getting there when you're not supposed to.

Even after reading your analysis, I don't see how the standby line even enters into the discussion.

The analysis is from the point of view of the STANDBY line primarily, since that is where the arguments generally begin (and I do need to clarify that). Your being late does not affect the true ride time of the people in the standby line (if the conditions are met). It actually benefits them. They may not SEE the benefit, because there is the PERCEIVED impact of making them wait longer, but since the attraction load rate does not ever vary and the Fastpass person would have been in line ahead of them anyways if they were on time, 5 minutes late, or 5 hours late, they actually ride at the same clock time they would if the FP person was on time, or even if they didn't get a FP and got in the standby line in the first place.

Yes, a person entering the FP line late can have a very minor effect on the people behind them in the FP line. But the effect is very minor (from 0 seconds to one load cycle) and the effect ends the moment the FP line is empty (fairly often except certain attractions). But the FP line is still faster.

It seems so simple. What is wrong about what I've said?


Also... I'd appreciate someone pointing me to this policy that says FPs are accepted for the rest day after the beginning time on your return window passes.

I don't see it here: http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/guest-services/fast-pass/ , and I assume that the fact that the FP says return between Y:YY and Z:ZZ is there for a reason.

I don't mean to be rude or again engage in this recurring debate, but I still don't see the argument that it isn't detrimental to use FPs during the wrong time, even if a particular CM allows it.

There isn't a printed policy that you can read, and it also depends on how you define "policy". I've actually tried to stay away from calling it that.

But if you read that web page closely, it does not say anything about having to be there between the times on the ticket, only to return to the attraction "when your printed return time rolls around". The back of the Fastpass is similar - there is about having to be between the times, but only says "Cannot accept early arrivals." The language allows flexibility.

The corallary to asking for the proof that you can use them late is, "Where is the proof that you can't?" There being a printed time on the pass (with the word "please" in front of it) is not the proof. Sure, Disney would prefer that you show up in that window only to make the queue lengths more predictable, but if they actually required it, why wouldn't they actually ENFORCE it? Because there are too many legitimate reasons why someone might miss their time.

And it is not a "particular CM" that allows it. They are TRAINED to allow it. They have posted on these boards and said this. They say it at the parks themselves. Feel free to ask one when you have the chance.

 

[kaytieeldr]

In addition to doconiell's analysis (or maybe my interpretation of it - I haven't had my coffee yet ), I have seen posted here that FastPass use actually averages out throughout the day:
Most FastPass holders will return and use the FastPass during the times printed (by the way, note that those returning very late in the window will very likely actually board the attraction after the FastPass expires);
About half the remaining FastPass holders throughout the day will return after their window has expired but before the end of the day and use the FP then; and
The other half of he remaining FastPass holders throughout the day will end up just plain not using them for a variety of reasons.

So, it all evens out at the end of each day.

 

[doconeill]

In addition to doconiell's analysis (or maybe my interpretation of it - I haven't had my coffee yet ), I have seen posted here that FastPass use actually averages out throughout the day:
Most FastPass holders will return and use the FastPass during the times printed (by the way, note that those returning very late in the window will very likely actually board the attraction after the FastPass expires);
About half the remaining FastPass holders throughout the day will return after their window has expired but before the end of the day and use the FP then; and
The other half of he remaining FastPass holders throughout the day will end up just plain not using them for a variety of reasons.

So, it all evens out at the end of each day.

True...although we don't have any real numbers, since even Disney doesn't track them, only a small percentage know they can use the FPs late (The DIS is NOT the entire guest base! ), only some percentage of them will even use them late, and only a very small percentage is likely to wait to use it at the last minute. So the likelyhood of 50 people showing up late at the same time isn't very high.

Slow Fastpass lines are far more likely to occur due to maintenance issues than late FP users.

 

[Robo]

I am just curious when all these people are always talking about "Disney policy" yet they NEVER have any proof or cite anything to back it up.

The proof is that you can use FP "late, same-day" every day at Disney parks.

It is also Disney policy to allow anyone already in the queue at park closing time to remain in the queue and ride the attraction, even though it is after the "closing time."

You won't find that printed on the park maps either, but it is policy nonetheless.

 

[mb168]

Keep in mind that if you decide you can't use the FP you can give them to someone else. A family gave us FP because they were leaving that park. We were really excited and then did the same thing when we decided to hop one day.

I do this quite a bit actually. We typically are holding FPs for a lot of rides by afternoon. I do this sometimes if we are leaving the park but planning to return. If by the time we're ready to leave we feel that we won't make it back I'll look for someone in a group with similar number of people to how many passes I have for a ride and give them to them. We've even gotten back to the resort and decided we didn't want to go back so I went to the bus stop there and given them away if someone was going to that park. You never know when something like this can make someone else's trip a little nicer, especially if they are one of the typical families that don't know how to "do" Disney.

 

[mom2aandj]

the most definitive thing I've seen that it is in fact Disney policy to accept late FPs was posted on here by just a short awhile ago, by someone who had very recently been to WDW. She systematically asked CMs at the parks whether her fast pass would be accepted late (it was something like 30 or 40 CMs she questioned, and they all said YES except 1) and then asked WHY it would be accepted late and they all replied that they were instructed in their training to do so.

 

[goofy4tink]

Actually, Disney policy is that FPs are good til park closes that day. It is not "required" that you return within the window.

Disney's 'policy' is right there, on the FP itself. It tells you when to return..between the hours of such and such. That IS the policy. But, for the most part, that policy is ignored. I know, hard to believe that Disney has a policy and then ignores it!!!
In any case, yes, in about 99.99% of the cases, you will be able to return at any time, after your return window opens, and use that FP. BUT, a CM can turn you away at any time as well. Does it happen? Not so much. But, as always, Disney has that 'policy' to go to if need be.

When guest hold onto their FPs, and then return at will, later in the day, it really doesn't affect much. There just aren't all that many people doing it. Have you seen the crowd of guests, standing by the FP entrance to most attractions, just waiting for their window to open??? That is much more prevalent than using FPs after the window.

 

[Alesia]

You miss the window, but instead show up during an arbitrary window later in the day. For that window, there are now X+1 guests waiting in line. For everyone who shows up with Fastpasses after you, they have to wait longer because you added yourself to the count of people set for the later window. And actually, it doesn't just affect the people in the that window, but for all the windows afterwards.

True, but in the original window, there were X-1 people in line. It all evens out when you use the fastpass, but until that time, the standby line moves slightly faster.

If 50 people decide to use their AM fastpass in the evening, 50 people don't necessarily get to ride earlier. Someone with an 8:00pm return can't show up at 7:00 because 50 people didn't use their fastpasses. So, if those 50 people come back at the end of the day, you end up with X+50 people trying to get through the Fastpass line during that window. The problem is caused by you getting there when you're not supposed to.

Actually, 50 people in the standby line will get to ride earlier.

I don't see it here: http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/guest-services/fast-pass/ , and I assume that the fact that the FP says return between Y:YY and Z:ZZ is there for a reason.

I don't mean to be rude or again engage in this recurring debate, but I still don't see the argument that it isn't detrimental to use FPs during the wrong time, even if a particular CM allows it.

All CMs are instructed by their superiors to accept fastpasses late. That is what makes it Disney policy. This is not a case of some employees disregarding rules.

There is an end time printed on the fastpass in order to give the CMs some leeway. They can turn someone away if the situation warrants it.

 

[Robo]

www.merriam-webster.com

pol·i·cy

Pronunciation: \ˈpä-lə-sē\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural pol·i·cies

1 a: prudence or wisdom in the management of affairs b: management or procedure based primarily on material interest

2 a: a definite course or method of action selected from among alternatives and in light of given conditions to guide and determine present and future decisions b: a high-level overall plan embracing the general goals and acceptable procedures especially of a governmental body

It is Disney policy to accept "late, same-day" FP.

It is also Disney policy to allow anyone already in the queue at park closing time to remain in the queue and ride the attraction, even though it is after the "closing time."

 

[A&Bmama]

I used fastpasses late consistantly on my visits this year. The only time a CM said something to me was when I used a FP for Soarin at 5 PM that I had received at rope drop (we hopped to MK for a few hours at mid morning). All he did was give me a wink and a smile and "your a little late, go right in".

I did however have a nosy guest behind me at EE inspect my FPs as I handed them out to my family. Puffed up guest proceeds to tell me that I missed my window (only by 1/2 hour) and that my passes are no good. I explain that they can almost always be used late but never early. She didn't look a bit surprised, which makes me suspect that she already knew this but just wanted me to follow what she perceived as "the rules."

 

[doconeill]

The rules/policy/procedures/laws/restrictions/flibbertygibbets are whatever Disney decides them to be. They do not need to publish them when they do not restrict the guests. Allowing you to use it late is not a restriction.

Just like they don't publish the fact that they will give you full gate price for a partially used ticket while upgrading, regardless of what the price paid was.

The time on the front of the ticket does not define policy. it even says "Please...", instead of "You must..." The relevant guest-facing restrictions are printed on the back, which state that you can't use it early, and you can only use it on that day. Disney wants flexibility.

 

[Praying Colonel]

I would like to see this too. I am not saying I don't believe anyone, I am just curious when all these people are always talking about "Disney policy" yet they NEVER have any proof or cite anything to back it up.

Besides the CMs who have posted here that they are trained to accept them?

 

[lacrosse_lady72]

Besides the CMs who have posted here that they are trained to accept them?

Yes but CMs are a part of the source.

Anyone can just throw out whatever they want and add saying it's policy... "You must wear yellow shorts at WDW every third Sunday, it's Disney policy."

I don't mind when there's just a discussion about what people have experienced but when people start throwing words in there like "policy" I want to say... remember one of the BASIC English class rules, cite your sources.