Coffee Shop Boycott by "Moms". Debate?

[kasar]

poohbear1029 - I couldn't agree more! I see so many parents who completely ignore their children and what they're doing or think they are so cute that how can anyone be annoyed with them.

However, I would like to thank the people who allowed my young children access to their restaurants because now they are well behaved diners who can (and will) try anything and know how to place their napkin on their laps and know which fork to use and know how to eat with chopsticks, how to order clearly and respectfully, etc. Those things don't happen by accident and unfortunately, they don't happen at the home dinner table (I don't know about you but we don't have linen napkins and multiple forks for mac and cheese! ). They weren't perfect when they were 2 years old, no 2 year old is, but at the same time that we were teaching our kids manners and disciplining them for their behavior, we were blessed with tolerant waitstaffs and other diners who allowed them the chance to learn (actually we got many compliments on their behavior instead). My girls have friends who we don't take out to restaurants (even family-friendly places) because their manners are more embarrassing than anything a 2 year old could do!

But that's not the case with this coffee shop - and I don't want to hijack this thread into another direction. I seem to have an unordinarily high tolerance for the antics of children, I guess.

 

[sha_lyn]

I agree 100% with the owner. His business his rules.
I love when businesses put up little signs like that. I point them out to the kids. Kind of lets me off the hook as the "bad guy", especially when I make my kids mind their manners when others are running wild. Just this week we were having a mother/daughter tea with 3 other families. The youngest child (3 I believe) hasn't had much exposure to restaurants so it was expected that she would be restless. However the mom let her run wild, using the excuse "I can't chase her in heels". This establishemnt has a large collection of tea cups and vintage hats. However they also do openly welcome children and have a large collection of playclothes, hats, jewlery etc for the kids to dress up for tea. My DD ended up in tears at one point because she was the only child not up running around. Eventually DD ended up being the one to keep the 3 yr old entertained and contained. I think the whole establishment heared me gasp when I turned to see DD grabbing both hands of the 3 yrs old as she was about to pull a breakable ornament of of a tree.

 

[sha_lyn]

oh and my kids love sushi. 8 yr DD will eat anything as long as it is cooked (my choice due to her age/small size). 16 DS loves anything cooked, and raw tuna. DS is the only one who has matered eating it with chopsticks.

 

[Mom2Ashli]

Nope don't have a problem with that policy. There is a time and a place for children to be loud and outgoing.

 

[DisneyAddict_M]

There's a diner I go to sometimes that has a sign on the front door saying, "No cell phones or crybabies." As far as I know, no one has boycotted it.

 

[yeartolate]

We have had (past tense) coffee shops in town that catered to the young ones - casual seating , patio with playthings, etc. They don't last too long.

The theaters however that have "movie mom's" showings do quite well.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

Kasar, I think the problem seems to be that those parents WEREN'T trying to teach their children anything about manners. Anyone who excuses their child's behavior with the statement "he/she is just verbal" ain't gettin' it.

My two DDs were very well behaved early on, everywhere. DS was another story...he was what we called "active". But that activity was disturbing to other people (and I never felt that anyone...particulary strangers...needed to adore our kids like WE do!) so we would remove him from the situation, and honestly, for a while, we just didn't go anywhere until he was old enough to "get it" about being out in public and not being a nuisance. Now he's an extremely polite and well-behaved 12 yr old.

 

[Minnie824]

Ok, I'm not sure how I feel about the sign. First of all...I don't drink coffee, or go to coffee shops so I'm not really sure what the atmosphere is or should be. I do however have a 1.5 yr old who on occasion has been known to like to scream...not a bad scream...a happy, I want to play scream. Does that mean, if shes happy, and loud I can't go in there with her to get a cup of coffee? I think thats ridiculous...its not a library. On the other hand, I would never let her or my other DD run around. When we go out, we sit nice in our chairs and eat, etc. But the sign says indoor voices...what if someone brings an infant in and it starts crying because its hungry...the mom has to leave cuz the baby isn't using its 'indoor voice'?

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

what if someone brings an infant in and it starts crying because its hungry...the mom has to leave cuz the baby isn't using its 'indoor voice'?

When my kids cried because they were hungry, I fed them and they stopped crying. If they didn't, yes, I would leave.

We once left a restaurant with a cranky kid (on a long trip in the car and almost home), and I went out and waited in the car with the kids till my DH got everything packed up to take with us, just as it was delivered to the table. Inconvenient and a drag? Yup.

 

[lulugirl]

There's a diner I go to sometimes that has a sign on the front door saying, "No cell phones or crybabies." As far as I know, no one has boycotted it.

Love it!

 

[golfgal]

Ok, I'm not sure how I feel about the sign. First of all...I don't drink coffee, or go to coffee shops so I'm not really sure what the atmosphere is or should be. I do however have a 1.5 yr old who on occasion has been known to like to scream...not a bad scream...a happy, I want to play scream. Does that mean, if shes happy, and loud I can't go in there with her to get a cup of coffee? I think thats ridiculous...its not a library. On the other hand, I would never let her or my other DD run around. When we go out, we sit nice in our chairs and eat, etc. But the sign says indoor voices...what if someone brings an infant in and it starts crying because its hungry...the mom has to leave cuz the baby isn't using its 'indoor voice'?

There is a big difference between a 3 year old yelling and screaming and tearing around a restaurant and a 1 year old crying because they are hungry. If you do something about the crying in a timely manner that is also different then ignoring your unruly child. All kids are going to cry at sometime, the problem comes when parents choose not to do anything about that. If your baby doesn't stop crying in a reasonable amount of time, then you take the baby out of the restaurant. It is just rude to think that everyone else wants to hear your child scream, cry, run around like a wild man. I have 3 kids, one could be a handful at times and other times a perfect little gentleman. You just never knew which one came with you that day so if the wildchild showed up, we left.

 

[Disney Doll]

My guess is that the intent behind the owner's message is not for the child who lets out a happy yell for minute. My guess is that it's intent is for the parents whose children are running around full bore screaming and carrying on while Mom smiles approvingly at her "verbal" little angel.

All we ask of parents is to teach your kids proper public behavior. There is a fine line between "cute" and "annoying". Your world may revolve around your child, but mine does not.

I love kids. Couldn't have any of my own, but I am "aunt", "godmother", "friend" to many chidren, of all ages. I babysit at a moment's notice, I schlep other people's kids places, I go to WDW with kids...kids are a very important part of my life. But they still need to be taught proper public behavior. And quite frankly, you could have the cutest kid in the world, and they are still going to be annoying at times. And it is your job to raise thm, parent them, teach them.

If I see a misbehaved 3 year old, someone in the vicinity will be a parent who just doesn't get it.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

While I don't agree with the children not speaking until spoken to....

I do agree with the coffee shop and the whole inside voice thing. YEAH coffee shop!

 

[Marseeya]

But the sign says indoor voices...what if someone brings an infant in and it starts crying because its hungry...the mom has to leave cuz the baby isn't using its 'indoor voice'?

I'd say the mom should do whatever she can to stop the screaming or crying (happy or upset). If it's a hungry cry, then feeding should stop it -- unless you're breastfeeding and then you certainly wouldn't want to do that in public for fear of offending the ****y nazis.

There are limits. I'd say any more than a minute of loud fussing and the parent should remove the child from the situation. It's just something parents have to do when their kids are little -- it's not a lifetime sentence.

 

[DawnCt1]

While I don't agree with the children not speaking until spoken to....

I do agree with the coffee shop and the whole inside voice thing. YEAH coffee shop!

I think the children not speaking until spoken too is not an appropriate philosophy for home and family life, but I feel its every bit appropriate for outside the home. Why should any child be encouraged to start conversations with perfect strangers?

 

[mtblujeans]

I haven't read the rest of this thread but I did see something about this coffee shop this morning on the Today Show. They quoted the owner of the coffee shop as stating (something to the effect of) he was just trying to help children get along or fit in better out in public. I think older people are generally of the opinion that younger people have not done the best job in raising their children.....ie teaching them manners, how to keep themselves better 'in control' when in public, not causing attention to themselves when in confined public places, etc.

I think back to when my children were little and McDonald's was putting large play areas in their shops. Children ran wild and you could not hear a normal conversation in the same room. Society has certainly changed from the time I was a child and commercialism has taken a different direction in attracting customers and certain age groups. Perhaps, even to the point of the pendulum swinging a little out of control. Now, I believe the pendulum is swinging back in the other direction and, as the larger portion of our society is growing older, people are showing that they want the youngest of us to gain more control over their public appearances.

 

[bgirldeb]

I don't believe anyone has posted the actual story, so here goes:
http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_314003745.html

CHICAGO, Illinois Young kids may love their ABC's, but some say they're missing the D, as in Discipline.

“We started losing business as the result of kids who were kinda out of control,” said Dan McCauley who owns a coffee shop in Chicago. . “People would actually walk in and walk right out again.”

So McCauley hung what he thought was a gentle reminder on the front door of his little coffee shop, and was shocked by the reaction - a boycott by the so-called "stroller set.”

Kim Cavitts is one of those moms. She says she won't take 2-year-old Abby someplace they feel un-wanted.

“She was told that ‘A,’ she either needed to be quiet, or ‘B,’ leave,” said Cavitts.

At restaurants from coast to coast, the battle lines are being drawn. In North Carolina there's even an online petition to enact a law requiring restaurants to offer a child-free section.

This is all a far cry from the kids eat free slogan of the past. McCauley’s message to parents – even paying kids better be on their best behavior.

“I think every parent of kids needs to sit down and actually teach them where it’s appropriate to be kids, and when it’s appropriate not,” said child psychologist Robert Butterworth.

McCauley says he never meant to parent by proxy.

“I keep emphasizing I’m not asking you, I’m not telling you how to raise your child. I'm asking in this environment, in my restaurant just ask your children to be a little more considerate,” said McCauley.

I agree that kids need to learn that you have to behave certain ways for certain settings. If your kids are too little to learn that, mommy might need to go have her coffee at McDonalds for a while instead of the local coffee shop. Its part of being a parent. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices.

I thought McCauley's sign was cute and innocent. It didn't say children are not allowed, it just asked for them to behave appropriately for his restaurant.
I hardly think that 2 year-old little Abby Cavitts feels "un-wanted"

When my kids were babies and if they fussed or got restless in even a family restaurant we would get up with them to take care of the problem if it couldn't be resolved quickly so that they didn't disturb others. This is the same consideration I would have at a sit-down meal at home if we had guests.

 

[Castlebound]

I totally agree with the owner! We have never had problems with our DS out in public but our DD is another story all together. When our DD isn't feeling good she gets overly emotional. Sometimes this is the first sign that she doesn't feel good. So something that normally wouldn't bother her becomes a big deal, and can lead to a meltdown. Over the years we have left several restaurants because of one of her meltdowns. I have always taken her to the restroom or a quite out of the way place to try to settle her down. If that doesn't work DH or I take her out to the car while the other one gets the food in takeout containers and pays the bill. It is a big pain in the butt when it happens, but she is our kid and it is our job to deal with her. I know I hate it when I see kids throwing fits or just bothering other people and their parents don't do anything about it.

I like how the sign said children of all ages needed to use their inside voices. I have heard plenty of adults that could use to relearn that lesson!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I think the children not speaking until spoken too is not an appropriate philosophy for home and family life, but I feel its every bit appropriate for outside the home. Why should any child be encouraged to start conversations with perfect strangers?

I alwasy thought that the "seen but not heard" thing was very condescending towards kids as they are people, too.
And just to be clear--I'm not saying that my child should speak up any where at any time she feels like it. But I can teach her proper etiquette without making her feel as an insignificant existence.

And I think it is okay to teach a child to say "hi". That is not on par with conversing with strangers.

And I seriously doubt that was the intent of the coffee shop owner. They said indoor voices--not complete silence...so I am not sure why you ever brought up that phrase in the first place.

 

[bgirldeb]

http://centerstage.net/patronreviews/pr.cfm?ID=6403&which=place

This is a restaurant site about "Taste of Heaven". If you click on the link to read reviews of the restaurant you can see what other people are saying about the sign