CM Diversity and Wages

lrmillen

Mouseketeer
Joined
Apr 2, 2003
Messages
238
It seemed to me that there were a number of CMs on our past cruise that were from South Africa or the UK. Many had british accents. Does Disney recruit heavily in these places? And does anyone know the diversity ratios for DCL? My DH and I were suprised to see only 2 CMs from the US (maybe we weren't looking hard enough).

And on a seperate note. We had heard that our servers relied solely on their tips for income (which i said was crazy). They have to be paid hourly, don't they?
 
I had heard, and I don't know if it is true or not....but I was told that CM's from the US have to pay taxes in the US on their wages, where other countries do not make them. That is why you will primarily see the higher better paying positions filled with US citizens. Probably because DCL is a registered US corporation, even though the ship is registered to the Bahamas.. Correct me if I am wrong!
 
This actually can get quite interesting when looking at where the various parts of the cruise line company are based.

If you can, read the DCL terms and conditions (or something like that). In there they mention one of the copanies as being based in the UK

I'm not real familar with how all this works but I'll just put it out here for discussion. I believe the ships ir of Bahamas registration, the U.S. based company is Magic Vacations or something that is the booking agent, and the management company that runs the ship is another name based in the UK. All direct or indirect subsidaries of the Walt Disney Company.

I could very well be mistaken in this as I just read the terms and contions thing real quick. All sounded quite complex to me but very interesting.
 
I don't know much about this, but it said on another post a while back, that b/c the ship is based (Company) outside the US, US labor laws do not apply. The crew works many hours that Americans usually would not do (maybe if you were young & adventursome...) which is why you don't find many working on the ships. People from other parts of the world can earn much more on the ship (even if it is just tips) than they can in their home country. Don't forget they get room and board also.
Don't know how they select what countries they go to recruit from, but they seem to be from all over.

Lots of other factors too I am sure that I am not aware of.
 

The non-US employees do not pay US taxes, and DCL is not obligated to report their income to any governmental agency.

There is an entire section of the IRS code dealing with non-US citizens and thei tax obligations to the US, and the there is a section of maritime law which addresses this as well.

If I hadn't given my law library away a few weeks ago I'd go look it up, as now I'm interested in the "entire" answer.

:confused:

At any rate, the US emplyees do still have to pay taxes to the IRS. The IRS is very specific about this, if you are a US citizen, regardless of who pays you, you are obligated to give them their share.

This IRS has treaties with various nations so that certain nationals employed under certain visas do not have to pay US taxes on income earned from US companies. The Visas that they get to be employed by a cruiseline fall under this category.

That said...

Most tipped positions recieve a very low weekly stipend, which workes out to around $1 an hour. Their income is based on tips.

Many cruise lines, DCL included, recruit heavily in certain countries, many of which are Eastern European, South African, and various parts of the Pacific Rim. The availability of an English speaking/bilingual labour pool willing to work in a service industry is very high in those areas.

Anne
 
WOW! If i had known my servers and stateroom host lived off of just what i tipped them, maybe i would have given a little bit more. but still.....1 buck an hour. geez. i don't know what to say. very interesting info ducklite.
 
Small salary PLUS room and board. That does make a big difference. I know that when I was young and just out of school, it took every penny I made JUST to take care of my rent, food, and transportation needs -- and my needs were very, very basic: 2 bedroom apartment shared between four people, $2000 used car . . . I'm pretty sure they're doing better than I was as a first-year teacher.
 
I heard Disney pays the servers about $50 every two weeks + room and board. Yes, they rely heavily on thier tips for income. We've been on three 7 day cruises and have never, ever had a server, or stateroom host that we've been dissatisfied with... so we've always tipped generously.

As I was turning in our tips on our last cruise I happened to glance at a fellow turning his in and he hadn't tipped the head server, stateroom host or assistant server and he didn't leave his server very much. I didn't say anything but was a bit disturbed. If you ate at a nice restaurant, such as those on the ships it would be AT least $100+ per dinner, not counting breakfasts and lunches, the suggested tips are in-line if not a bit small.

If you recieve good service, please tip generously. We are very fortunate to be Americans.... :)
 
On our 5/17 cruise I asked just that question of the steering commitee at the Captain Q&A session....why so many of the cruise staff (the ones that host all the theme nights and deck parties and game shows) was from the UK, Australia and South Africa and no so many Americans...

Basically the answer is just what was said above...cruise lines find that many Americans would just not put up with the hours, pay or lifestyle demands of working on a ship. He said the one difference was the Entertainment Staff (stage performers)...he said they were pretty much 95% US or North American.

They are also a few of the kids club couselors who are American, but most are from the UK, Australia or South Africa..same with the SPA.

From talking with the cruise staff is does seem that DCL places many ads in other countries looking to recruit people.

MJ
 
Mrs. Pete, Considering the staff works VERY long hours, seven days a week for months I'm sure that you were better off as a first year teacher.
It amazes me the hours they put in without becoming cranky, or rude. I have seen some guests give their servers a terrible time the entire trip-you can imagine there was no tip. What you tip is MUCH less than if you ate out at a nice restaurant 7 evenings in a row.
 
Originally posted by disneygal58
Waitstaff in the US that depend upon tips typically earn $2.15 per hour.

Tipped employees on the cruise DO NOT make the Federal minimum. They have a similar situation to migrant farm employees who are paid less as they are also given a place to live (although if you've ever seen migrant farm shacks you'd be appalled.) At any rate, they do get room and board, although if you took the value of this and divide it by the hours they work, it's still only about $1 an hour.

Please keep in mind that they work a minimum of 50 hours a week.

Anne
 
Tipped employees on the cruise DO NOT make the Federal minimum.

Up until recently, I was the floor manager in a pub. The servers made $2.13 per hour. Most worked 50 hours/week. After taxes, their paychecks (every two weeks) were always less than $20 (they are taxed on a percentage of their sales.) They do not receive room and board, and have no benefits. Even the very best are routinely stiffed/undertipped and all of them have had people walk out on checks (which the server has to pay out of her own pocket) at least once. They would make from $30/night to $200+, averaging about $75/night, based on 4-5 shifts/week.

DH and I have both had many serving jobs over the years. No matter how you look at it, it isn't easy. A lot of people are very cheap, unreasonable, and rude. On the flip side, there are usually enough kind and generous people (like DISBoarders) to make it worthwhile, until something better comes along.

Just trying to give some perspective from the trenches. The moral being, always be kind to your servers/attendents. If they are not being kind to you, you might try being sympathetic to them. If that doesn't work, speak to their supervisors. (We have had many experiences with poor service over the years, and have found these to be the best remedies.) Everybody has bad days. Remember, these are the people handling your food and beverages (or cleaning your rooms.) A little kindness can go a long way.

If you are opposed to/offended by the tipping culture, get a grassroots movement going to change it, but please don't take it out on people who depend on tips. Thank you for the opportunity to rant.:D
 
DCL is not Alone

Please do not think that DIS is unique in hiring Non-US nationals.

I have sailed/cruised all over the world (Swedish Lloyd, North German Lloyd,, Royal Olympic, Holland America, RCCL, etc.) and you rarely saw a crew native to the country the ship sailed from.

As to wages, we have to be careful as to our perspective. If in one's own country the average wage is $25/week and I make $50, I'd doing great.

I find that in many post-colonial countries, the workers tend to come from former colonies. But that just be what I noticed.

Also, How many of us, if we were 19 and offered a chance to live on DCL, and even get paid some nominal amount wouldn't jump at the chance?

In fact, we are willing to Pay!
 
moinab,
Thanks for elaborating and taking the time to explain the point that I intended to make by the statement that US waitstaff are also paid low wages and depend upon tips to survive. Every good server - on and off the ship - works extremely hard for the money that they make. That's all that I meant to point out.

Dawn Hope
 
I totally agree that Disney hires excellent staff, however, DCL can be higher priced than other cruise lines so......what ARE we paying for if not the staff salaries? Why not just charge the tips fee as part of the cruise price?
 
I believe part of what we're paying for is the money lost by not having a casino on board. I'm not sure how much casinos bring in on other ships, but I'm sure it adds up to a few pennies....

Julie
 
Why not just charge the tips fee as part of the cruise price?
Excellent point jlawall - I agree entirely. Other cruise lines (I've heard others mention NCL) do this. On the other hand, should tips be included in the cruise price, it gives you less control should you decide a lower tip (or no tip) is justified in a particular situation.

I personally take offense when the servers take time out of your meals to inform you of the "excellent service" they have provided and are very clearly implying that they deserve a tip commensurate with "excellent" service. Tipping should be a hands-off exercise. I feel that DCL makes too much out of it as do the servers (at least the ones we've had this past cruise). You are paying a premium price for a DCL cruise and you expect to get a premium level of service for that price. If you get less than a premium level of service or even an average level of service, why would anyone expect to get a premium tip? If anything, in our case, it went a long way to turning us off as opposed to making us jump to throw money at them. However, seeing how the servers turned us off on tipping, it made us realize just how great out cabin steward was - made up our room 2 and 3 times a day, was very friendly, didn't even mention a tip. He got the premium tip.

Please keep in mind that they work a minimum of 50 hours a week.
When a person takes a job, they know exactly how much they will be paid, and exactly what the job entails. In the US, and I'm sure with DCL, work is by "free will". If you don't like the work, you don't take the job or you can quit. With DCL, they sign 6 month contracts. They are free not to renew their contracts if they don't like the work. If you are working on a cruise ship, I don't think that anyone has illusions that they are simply going to work 40 hours a week, and be entitled to free room, board, and lounging on the ship the other 128 hours a week - do you? I agree entirely with jgalecpa. Everyone seems to be making such a big deal out of the hourly rate the cruise staff is making, wonders why most are foreign, and entirely neglect that they cannot earn even those "small" wages in their home country. If they were to work in their home country, they would earn even less than what DCL gives them, and probably even longer hours. They'd be working 6 or 7 days a week in their home countries and longer than an 8 hour day - surely room and board would not be included - would it?

If you are opposed to/offended by the tipping culture, get a grassroots movement going to change it, but please don't take it out on people who depend on tips
Yes, I am opposed/offended - and, quite frankly, there is no need to get a grassroots movement going to get it changed - the customer has total control. On the contrary, those people who depend on tips are the ones who need to get the grassroots movement going, unionize, or just refuse jobs where they depend on tips. The issue is, in that the world we live in, there will always be someone who is willing to take a job regardless of the wages. We see this as a significant number of technology jobs in the US are simply being transplanted to countries like India where they will do the same work for $5 and $10 per hour or foreigners being brought in to the US on visas specifically because they are willing to work for low wages. That is what the problem is. Lots of US workers are quick to complain, but don't do much about it. If the US workers are better, then either they can find work paying the wages they think they deserve, or, they take less wages - being shown that they can be replaced with others capable of doing the same job for less. Unemployment in the US is at 20 year highs, shows no signs of going down, and people are asking why?

In this case, it is not up to the customer to determine the wages of an employee - that is between the employee and the employer. As the customer, I am not the employer. So, those who depend on tips, should not take it personally if they don't get the tip they "expect" or expect customers give them any tip at all.

Further, considering the state of our economy, where people have lost jobs, we see deflation all around us, why would people who "depend on tips" think they are entitled to a 15% or 20% tip because that is what "our culture" has trained them to think? With wages in every job sector going down, why shouldn't the expected tip our culture expects be rolled back to 10%? People are making less money, taxes and insurance are going up - if I have less expendable money in my budget and am having to get by on less, then why shouldn't those who "depend on tips" have to deal with it as well? Let them work harder and longer hours as everyone else does to make ends meet. Don't take it out on customers who are simply looking to get their money's worth FOR WHAT THEY HAVE ALREADY PAID FOR.
 

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