Clearing Up the Wiccan and 'Pagan' Faiths...

So Wiccans are pagans, but pagans are not wiccans.

Those who believe in the old Norse gods have quite different beliefs than those who worship the gods of the Mayas (just to list two examples), but yet I'm being told that they are both pagans. Color me confused. I've seen comparisons to Christianity, that there are many beliefs that fall under the umbrella of Christianity- like Catholics, Baptist, Mormon, JW, etc- but all Christians believe in the divinity of Jesus (at a bare minimum), so they are unified in that. What is the unifying principle behind Pagans? Is there one, or like I said is it a catchall category?

I know a lot about paganism, but I'm not a pagan. I'm going to do my best with the definitions but someone who is practicing might be better than I am at it.

A Pagan is a catch-all phrase, similar to Christian, for followers of the ancient and neo earth based religions/spiritual paths. Like I said - similar to Christian in that there are many branches of Paganism.

Wicca is one of the pagan traditions. Here's a great FAQ
http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_faq.htm
 
A Pagan is a catch-all phrase, similar to Christian, for followers of the ancient and neo earth based religions/spiritual paths. Like I said - similar to Christian in that there are many branches of Paganism.

Well, not all pagan religions share the same origin, scripture, deity, etc like all the Christian denominations do.
 
The witchcraft of Buffy drew me into Wicca.

Not trying to slam anyone as I don't know much about the pagan/wiccan religions. What I do know is Jossverse - and the 2 main witches in Buffy were not wiccans or pagans. In fact they never belonged to a coven or practiced what anyone could consider a religion. They mostly just did spells that helped out the scobby-gang. So how could you have picked up on this religion based on this TV show?

~Amanda
 
PS: I know a couple of warlocks. Depends upon your branch of the tree and they are DEFINITELY not WOW types. At all. More like, old and cranky (by one's own description of himself!)

A warlock is a betrayer.
See this link:

http://www.faqs.org/qa/qa-6227.html

The word 'warlock' comes from the Old English word 'waer logger', which literally means 'covenant breaker'. It could also come from the Icelandic word 'vordlokkr' - person who can summon the spirits. Basically, 'warlock' is generally (in this present day) used to mean 'oath breaker', and 'traitor'.

People generally perceive a warlock to be a male witch and indeed, some pagans use the word warlock to mean such. However, most pagans (Wiccans included) consider the word an insult because of it's literal meaning of traitor.

But, I do see where you're coming from: (Same link)

Overall, depending on what somebody believes, a warlock is a male witch (generally untrue but widely believed) or a traitor (more true but not so well known).

Not all Christian faiths "blend in" paganism. In fact I don't really celebrate Christmas or Easter because of the pagan ties.

The holidays and rituals of Christianity are far more Pagan than Christian...but that's another thread. ;)

Blending...sounds like you are making a smoothie. ;)

A very delicious smoothie! :D

So, as I see it, there is no "Pagan" denomination; it seems to be a catchall for varied pantheisms/monotheisms/goddess worship/Gaiaisms- basically anything other than the well-known world religions like Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism. I'll include Wicca in that as it seems to be well-organized with central unifying principles.

The 'pagan' denomination covers many religions, as we've stated before. You are correct in it being a catchall. :)

So one person could explain their own little piece of their particular pagan beliefs- but an Egyptian 'pagan' has very different beliefs vs. a Norse 'pagan', who is not even on the same page as someone who reveres the Roman gods.

Every Pagan is different, even if the difference is in the name of the God they worship. Me, personally, I believe all God/esses are a part of a whole, and that the name means nothing...it's just the denominations' way of labeling themselves. Kind of like some Christians believe that Buddhists still worship God, but under a different name.

IMO, I think Wicca needs its own thread separate from the "Pagan" thread. I doesn't seem like Wiccans are Pagans, and almost insulting to include them and their beliefs.

Wiccans are Pagan, though.

Interesting. Did you feel that something spiritual was missing from your life when you were 12 and started to meditate or did you have some friends that were into Wicca? What I am trying to understand is what spurred your search for a religion - and how did you pick this one? What did your athiest family think?

I had 'tried' and 'experimented' with many religions, including Christianity, but none of them felt 'right'. I didn't feel that there wasn't anything...I'd always felt there was something. What spurred my search was that 'empty' feeling. My family was fine with it. I was raised into the 'religion comes to the person' aspect. They don't care what I am, as long as I'm happy and safe.

I know a few athiests - some who used to be believers but now aren't and some who have always been athiest.

It's an interesting group. ;)


That is the way it was explained to me once. The Deity is both male and female - two halves of a whole. Not two separate gods. Like Father, Son, Holy Spirit make up one in the Christian faith (the Godhead) - not three separate gods.

Some believe that aspect of the Diety...I, myself believe the Diety is female.

I have done a lot of reading about different religions - kind of a hobby. I have read a good bit about Wicca and Druidism and Pagan beliefs. As well as Hindu, Islam and the branches of Christian faiths. I always like to learn about other people's beliefs and how they came about them. Sometimes it is from a good teacher and sometimes it is from books they have read and sometimes it is something totally different - everyone of us is different so why shouldn't we relate to spirituality differently.

It's always good to read up on religion, even if you're devout in your own. It's important to life, I think...our modern day laws are based on past religious tenets.

I agree with the bold heavily.

As an atheist myself, I can't help but wonder why in the world would you decide to become Wiccan/Pagan?:confused3

Because I always had a problem with the 'nothing' aspect. There was always 'something', I just hadn't found it, and Paganism was, and is, the most beautiful religion in my eyes. I have always enjoyed nature's gifts and splendor, and that certainly aided my decision.

Not trying to slam anyone as I don't know much about the pagan/wiccan religions. What I do know is Jossverse - and the 2 main witches in Buffy were not wiccans or pagans. In fact they never belonged to a coven or practiced what anyone could consider a religion. They mostly just did spells that helped out the scobby-gang. So how could you have picked up on this religion based on this TV show?

~Amanda

The two witches were deemed Wiccan. Willow always identified herself as a witch, though, and Tara identified themselves a Wiccan. On every website, they were Wiccan. Willow was a part of the English Coven, by the way, in season seven, as well as with Tara in the College Coven in season...four?

I picked up on this religion because of the Coven aspect...and, to be honest, I wanted to do magic. But I learned better. ;)
 

I know a lot about paganism, but I'm not a pagan. I'm going to do my best with the definitions but someone who is practicing might be better than I am at it.

A Pagan is a catch-all phrase, similar to Christian, for followers of the ancient and neo earth based religions/spiritual paths. Like I said - similar to Christian in that there are many branches of Paganism.

Wicca is one of the pagan traditions. Here's a great FAQ
http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_faq.htm

You're doing a great job in your research! I thank you for your links! (Again!)

Your goddess is Hecate, the Greek goddess of sorcery and the crossroads but you utilize Celtic and Egyptian beliefs and don't practice magick? That's very odd.

As I said, I blend from a variety of beliefs, some I failed to mention. Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Celtic...Eclectisism, at it's best. :) ;)

Hecate is not just the Greek Goddess of sorcery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hecate

Despite popular belief, Hecate was not originally a Greek goddess. The roots of Hecate seem to be in the Carians of Asia Minor.

Normally those following the Hellenistic tradition and practice magick have an affinity towards Hecate/Hekate.

Weird, b/c the Hellenists I know have no affinity towards Hecate, and don't practice magic, but ritual...*will question that, now...I have no knowledge on Hellenism, I'm afraid.*
 
I meditate, every day, if possible, as it is not only calming, but it soothes the unbalanced chakras. After a meditation, I always ground myself, which is a Wiccan practice, the only Wiccan practice I attune to thoroughly.

How do you ground yourself? Is it a ritual you do after meditation?
 
How do you ground yourself? Is it a ritual you do after meditation?

It's a ritual used after meditations, spell casting, circle binding, etc.

Grounding varies from person to person, but it's all about releasing your 'used' energy, releasing it back into the Earth for it to be renewed.

For me, this involves focusing on the energy, focusing on it leaving my body, through my veins, and exiting to the grounds of the Earth. I picture myself as, for example, a tree, my roots forever elongating.

Some examples:

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art20586.asp

And Centering:

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/wicca_witchcraft/111978
 
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I have one question and it's really about your sources. You said in another thread that you did not feel that Wikipedia was the best source but yet it has been quoted here a few times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism[/url]
 
I have one question and it's really about your sources. You said in another thread that you did not feel that Wikipedia was the best source but yet it has been quoted here a few times.

Not the best for sources, but am short on time...and not for anyone in particular, just for those who perhaps didn't know such...

You bolded it yourself. Short on time. ;)

I have finals coming up, and don't exactly plan on living here. :)

It's not acceptable for debates and college essays, but for simplicity and time, it's proper.

But I fail to see how that applies to the topic, especially when the topic is about Wiccans/Pagans, and not 'proper citation of sources'. :)
 
The two witches were deemed Wiccan. Willow always identified herself as a witch, though, and Tara identified themselves a Wiccan. On every website, they were Wiccan. Willow was a part of the English Coven, by the way, in season seven, as well as with Tara in the College Coven in season...four?

She wasn't part of a coven as much as guided by a coven. And we never saw them or their rituals. And the "coven" in season 4 was more of a group that just got together and said they were Wiccan. That was why Willow didn't stay with the group - because they weren't truly witches.

:)

~Amanda
 
I was just reading the dictionary's definition of 'pagan', and it says it's someone who is not a Christian, Moslem, or Jew, or one who has no religion. So, can you be a pagan and still believe in God? Just curious.
 
I think perhaps as opposed to comparing the broad term Pagan to Christian (since many sects of Christianity fall under the term Christian) It might be better to go even braoder and say Pagan is a broad term for a type of belief system in the same way 'monotheism' is a broad term for a type of belief system. But even monotheism has a universally accepted definition.

In fact there is no universally accepted definition of the origins of the word Pagan.

From http://www.religioustolerance.org/paganism.htm
Most modern Pagan sources interpret the word to have meant "rustic," "hick," or "country bumpkin" -- a pejorative term. The implication was that Christians used the term to ridicule country folk who tenaciously held on to what the Christians considered old-fashioned, outmoded Pagan beliefs. Those in the country were much slower in adopting the new religion of Christianity than were the city folks. They still followed the Greek state religion, Roman state religion, Mithraism, various mystery religions, etc., long after those in urban areas had converted.

Some believe that in the early Roman Empire, "paganus" came to mean "civilian" as opposed to "military." Christians often called themselves "miles Christi" (Soldiers of Christ). The non-Christians became "pagani" -- non-soldiers or civilians. No denigration would be implied.

C. Mohrmann suggests that the general meaning was any "outsider," -- a neutral term -- and that the other meanings, "civilian" and "hick," were merely specialized uses of the term
 
I was just reading the dictionary's definition of 'pagan', and it says it's someone who is not a Christian, Moslem, or Jew, or one who has no religion. So, can you be a pagan and still believe in God? Just curious.

Not God in the way you think--Christianity is mainly worship of the male deity to the exclusion of the female---Witchcraft is guilty of the same crime but in reverse...They laud the Goddess to the near total exclusion of the God.

Wicca is a religion of nature--everywhere in nature there is male and female and BOTH are necessary---each should be equally revered,there should be balance

EX: The God is associated with the dark half of the year while the Goddess is associated with the light half of the year
 
But I fail to see how that applies to the topic, especially when the topic is about Wiccans/Pagans, and not 'proper citation of sources'. :)

When you cite sources that you have said yourself you do not find to be fully accurate you lose credibility in your arguments and support statements which does relate to your topic at hand.
 
She wasn't part of a coven as much as guided by a coven. And we never saw them or their rituals. And the "coven" in season 4 was more of a group that just got together and said they were Wiccan. That was why Willow didn't stay with the group - because they weren't truly witches.

:)

~Amanda

Willow and Tara were, as they say specifically in season four, of *insert college name here's* Coven.

You don't have to be a witch to be a part of a coven, btw. A coven is merely a gathering force.

When you cite sources that you have said yourself you do not find to be fully accurate you lose credibility in your arguments and support statements which does relate to your topic at hand.

Quite honestly, I said, and if I have to quote, I will, "For lack of time..."...in both occurences...and, as you will notice, wiki is the least used of my sources. Now, if you don't mind, I would like to see this thread kept as much on topic as possible. Thanks much.

I was just reading the dictionary's definition of 'pagan', and it says it's someone who is not a Christian, Moslem, or Jew, or one who has no religion. So, can you be a pagan and still believe in God? Just curious.

Quite honestly, and personally, I'd have to give this question a BIG NO. Jesus is a Christian concept/aspect/idea. See this:

Not God in the way you think--Christianity is mainly worship of the male deity to the exclusion of the female---Witchcraft is guilty of the same crime but in reverse...They laud the Goddess to the near total exclusion of the God.

Wicca is a religion of nature--everywhere in nature there is male and female and BOTH are necessary---each should be equally revered,there should be balance

EX: The God is associated with the dark half of the year while the Goddess is associated with the light half of the year
 
Anne:

On Tara and Willow of Buffy:
Tara is introduced in the Season Four episode "Hush." A member of UC Sunnydale's Wicca group, she meets Willow Rosenberg, herself a practicing witch.

Willow's initial interest in Wicca lies more in the spell-casting portion rather than the faith itself; she sees magic as a way of hacking the universe, and an extension of her computer skills. This is probably because of her relationship with Jenny, who was connected to an online pagan network.

Both via the search on Google: Willow Rosenberg...separate from Tara Maclay.

Willow's info comes from: http://www.answers.com/topic/willow-rosenberg

Tara's info comes from the wiki link.

Other Tara/Willow information:

(An opinion from someone)

http://crystal2004.proboards21.com/index.cgi?board=TaraRiley&action=display&thread=1074463043

And some information on Wikipedia as a source from:

http://forums.cnet.com/5208-10152_102-0.html?forumID=97&threadID=244747&messageID=2469610
 
Hello Ariel Mae! I'm studying Wicca :goodvibes It's very interesting. (I'm pretty much atheist, though.)
 
Okay, so, there's a lot of misconception out there as to what a Wiccan is, who they worship.

A couple of years ago my aunt and uncle--(aunt by blood, uncle by marriage)--were invited to a Handfasting by a couple on my uncle's side of the family. They really had no idea what Wicca was or what a Handfasting was. After getting the invitation my aunt got a call from a friend who was also invited to the wedding and who goes to the same church (Catholic) as my aunt. The friend was very upset about the event and asked my aunt if she was going to go. My aunt said of course and the friend objected, "But they are devil worshippers! They'll be sacrificing animals. We can't go. It would be against the Church to go." :sad2: The call got my aunt worried so she actually decided to go and ask her priest about it. Luckily the priest explained Wicca to my aunt and assured her there would be no devil worshipping or animal sacrifice. He told her it would not be "against the Church" or a sin to go to the Handfasting. He did add though that it was her duty as a Catholic to make sure she indicates to the couple that while she is happy for them, she would have been happier if they had married in the Catholic Church. :rolleyes: (She, of course, said no such thing.)
 
i'm so glad someone posted this. most people are ignorant to the whole Pagan and Wiccan religions. it's nice to see someone coming out and explaining things to everyone who have questions.
 
A couple of years ago my aunt and uncle--(aunt by blood, uncle by marriage)--were invited to a Handfasting by a couple on my uncle's side of the family. They really had no idea what Wicca was or what a Handfasting was. After getting the invitation my aunt got a call from a friend who was also invited to the wedding and who goes to the same church (Catholic) as my aunt. The friend was very upset about the event and asked my aunt if she was going to go. My aunt said of course and the friend objected, "But they are devil worshippers! They'll be sacrificing animals. We can't go. It would be against the Church to go." :sad2: The call got my aunt worried so she actually decided to go and ask her priest about it. Luckily the priest explained Wicca to my aunt and assured her there would be no devil worshipping or animal sacrifice. He told her it would not be "against the Church" or a sin to go to the Handfasting. He did add though that it was her duty as a Catholic to make sure she indicates to the couple that while she is happy for them, she would have been happier if they had married in the Catholic Church. :rolleyes: (She, of course, said no such thing.)


i'm surprised the priest actually told her it was ok to go, that's pretty cool of him because most of them will agree with the "devil worshiping" thing and i'm even kind of impressed that he knew exactly what was going to happen in the ceremony!
 














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