Cleanest Ships in the Biz

[mevelandry]

If I have just been in the restroom, washed my hands, opened the door with a paper towel, pushed the elevator button with an elbow, and touched nothing else, why would I need to wash them again?

And if I touch something that is germy while getting food, I can then control my actual exposure by *not putting my hands to my mucous membranes*. No finger food. Just utensils being used. No fingernail biting. That way o keep myself safe from a germy surface. (And so can others)

Because it’s a great precaution considering that we do not always realize that we are touching our face as a reflex or touching something by accident... What if there is wind outside as you pass by the pool and you have to remove your hair from your face so you can actually see where you are going?

On top of that, it is polite and by doing so you are also being a good example to others (especially kids)?

Yes, you can do that too (no finger food, not touching your face) ... on top of washing your hands before entering the buffet!

 

[KMack]

I don't think Disney would have a big problem with a breakout. I constantly see and smell cleaners cleaning everything on the ship! I love it. They also change the serving spoons at the buffets every few minutes and pass out wipes on the way in and out. Only cruise with Disney.

I was on the WBPC. Even with all the precautions Disney took, there were still infections on the ship which didn’t become apparent until after we docked in San Diego. This is despite the steps that Disney took to prevent infection in dining (ie. no self service of any kind: soft drinks, coffee, buffet service, ice cream, Crown and Finn bar foods) and constant cleaning of the ship’s common areas.

In the past, I have disembarked Disney ships with influenza A and I have been onboard during a norovirus outbreak.

Don’t be naive. Yes - Disney’s hygiene protocols are the best in the industry. It is why we still sail with them even though our kids are grown up because we aren’t really Disney fans. But Disney can only do what it can to mitigate the possibility of passengers getting sick, they can’t eliminate it.

We will still sail with Disney in the future because we trust them to do their best, knowing full well that it won’t be infallible.

 

[brentm77]

I did not say that cleaning is not important, I said that the virus does not care about excessive cleaning. The crew on the WBPC cruise were constantly cleaning. It was very noticeable that it was even way beyond the normal amazing job of cleaning that they do to keep us all safe and mitigate infections. Even with all of that many people were infected with Covid 19 while on the cruise. My point was to people who have been posting that because of Disney’ cleanliness it will not allow Covid 19 to spread on the ships. Unfortunately, that is just not true.

What was the infection rate for the WBPC? Were there any deaths? I thought it appeared relatively low compared to othere ships. Maybe the cleanliness contributed to that?

 

[KMack]

What was the infection rate for the WBPC? Were there any deaths? I thought it appeared relatively low compared to othere ships. Maybe the cleanliness contributed to that?

We were unaware of any virus on board prior to disembarkation in San Diego. Honestly, we all felt like we were in a protected bubble given what was going on in the rest of the world.

Unfortunately, people apparently started to feel ill at the very end of the cruise (which was very odd given that symptoms were supposed to appear after 5 days and we were at sea for 10 straight days given port call cancellations!) I am aware of dozens of positive tests and some deaths but I am not going to give details out of respect for the privacy of my fellow travellers. Granted, some of these infections could have occured on the trip from San Diego to home but at least two were related to the ship. Moreover, 38 members of the crew are sick and they weren’t allowed to disembark once we arrived in San Diego so the only way they could have gotten sick is if it was on-board before we arrived there.

I think the hygiene standards and the changes Disney made definitely prevented the Wonder from experiencing higher infection rates. In fact, there is no doubt in my mind of this. Also, we were at sea for 10 days straight and we were unable to put people ashore or take people on board in Cartegena, Panama, Puerto Vallarta and Cabo San Lucas meant that we were not exposed more broadly.

But, yes. Passengers of the WBPC were exposed, some became gravely ill and some died. It was definitely an eye-opening experience for us.

(And HUGE kudos go out to the cast and crew of The Disney Wonder. From the Captain down, they did an amazing job and I hope they are all safe and healthy or recovering nicely. I was advised that one crew member had to go to hospital. )

 

[dvcgirl67]

The CDC's concerns with cruise ships (and seagoing vessels in general) is more about the lack of distancing. Crew quarters are small and tightly packed. Crew mess is small and tightly packed. Heck, MDRs are tightly packed, and that is the guest space. Going two abreast in hallways is a challenge.

I keep saying this, but you think the Roosevelt was unclean? An aircraft carrier on a peacetime journey is ultra clean. Yet 25% of the sailors tested positive. It is because of the close proximity.

You're exactly right. Cruise ships need to run at 95%+ capacity to be profitable. You absolutely can not pack a cruise ship with thousands of people and think that there won't be an outbreak right now.

It's absolute magical and mindless thinking to believe that it's safe to get on a cruise ship in the middle of a pandemic. Pure insanity.

 

[MomOTwins]

You're exactly right. Cruise ships need to run at 95%+ capacity to be profitable. You absolutely can not pack a cruise ship with thousands of people and think that there won't be an outbreak right now.

It's absolute magical and mindless thinking to believe that it's safe to get on a cruise ship in the middle of a pandemic. Pure insanity.

I think when talking about reopening though you need to adjust the cost side of the equation for profitability. "95% capacity to be profitable" assumes that the cruise is running at 100% normal cost: with full staff, all entertainment options (including fireworks), a kitchen supplied with food for 100% capacity. I think that when DCL gets closer to a point when they could open, they will take a look at bookings and only bring back a proportionate amount of staff, and make some entertainment cuts. If they know the ship will be 40% full, they won't need as many servers, room hosts, kids club CMs etc. and they can also reduce their food orders with suppliers. They may also be able to add cutbacks under the rationale of safety, like closing the buffet or cancelling the fireworks. Yes there will still be major fixed costs like fuel, but gas prices have been lower right now as well. Finally, it may be better to start running cruises that are not profitable then keep the operationg shuttered for a year and then not be in a position to reopen because all of your furloughed staff have moved on and your suppliers and excursion providers have gone under.

As for whether it is "mindless" and "pure insanity" to cruise, I do think that is an over-generalization. While I'd prefer to have an antibody test (and may be able to get one before cruising--fingers crossed), I have a good reason to think that we would be immune. While there were initially rumors about reinfections, those now seem not to be the case (in those cases, the test was picking up dead virus rather than live virus).

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I think when talking about reopening though you need to adjust the cost side of the equation for profitability. "95% capacity to be profitable" assumes that the cruise is running at 100% normal cost: with full staff, all entertainment options (including fireworks), a kitchen supplied with food for 100% capacity. I think that when DCL gets closer to a point when they could open, they will take a look at bookings and only bring back a proportionate amount of staff, and make some entertainment cuts.

While this is a factor, there are many expenses of operating a ship that are not proportional to staff on board. Throw out capital depreciation as an expense they want to cover with passenger revenue for a minute - although that is a fixed cost. Onboard expenses include insurance for all insurable assets on the ship, and the ship itself. Fuel expense doesn't go down if you halve the number of people on the ship. On average, a large ship on normal speed uses 250 tons of fuel per day. At $500 per ton, that's $125k per day as the fuel cost. Maintenance and repairs also don't really scale based on people on the ship - salt water is salt water, ya know?

Staff, food, ticketing/commission expense, and entertainment scales more, but not sufficiently to make up for not having more passengers to distribute the fixed costs across.

 

[dvcgirl67]

I think when talking about reopening though you need to adjust the cost side of the equation for profitability. "95% capacity to be profitable" assumes that the cruise is running at 100% normal cost: with full staff, all entertainment options (including fireworks), a kitchen supplied with food for 100% capacity. I think that when DCL gets closer to a point when they could open, they will take a look at bookings and only bring back a proportionate amount of staff, and make some entertainment cuts. If they know the ship will be 40% full, they won't need as many servers, room hosts, kids club CMs etc. and they can also reduce their food orders with suppliers. They may also be able to add cutbacks under the rationale of safety, like closing the buffet or cancelling the fireworks. Yes there will still be major fixed costs like fuel, but gas prices have been lower right now as well. Finally, it may be better to start running cruises that are not profitable then keep the operationg shuttered for a year and then not be in a position to reopen because all of your furloughed staff have moved on and your suppliers and excursion providers have gone under.

As for whether it is "mindless" and "pure insanity" to cruise, I do think that is an over-generalization. While I'd prefer to have an antibody test (and may be able to get one before cruising--fingers crossed), I have a good reason to think that we would be immune. While there were initially rumors about reinfections, those now seem not to be the case (in those cases, the test was picking up dead virus rather than live virus).

You bring up good points about furloughed staff and inability to get them back. But then I think, where exactly are they going to work? Another cruise line? Many of them are from the islands, and the hospitality business isn't exactly booming in those places, or anywhere else for that matter. If they do drop capacity down to say 50%, I still think that the CM to guest ratio will need to be higher than before, not even equal or less. There would have to be endless sanitizing and cleaning. Also lots more "herding" of guests to limit how many can enter a given area at a given time. It's just....a lot.

I have a very difficult time understanding how Disney is even going to re-open the parks. Event though they are "testing" with "fake guests", Disney has not yet re-opened Shanghai Disney. And the limited things that they have opened there...one hotel and limited "recreational activities" sounds really kind of awful. And in China they are do a much, much better job at tracking and containing the virus. Everyone has to wear masks. Everyone has to present their QR code, which allows them to proceed if it's "green". Temperatures taken everywhere. It really makes me wonder....who would want to go through all of that?

Then...when it comes to cruising, where exactly are the ships going to go? Castaway Cay is the only contained option at this point. Any other port is a huge risk. And many likely won't allow the ships to dock. And if some desperate ports allow guests to disembark, they risk guests coming back on-board infected. The CDC has adopted their Phase 1, 2, 3 approach. Some states are already progressing into Phase 1 without meeting the criteria. Some are even allowing Phase 2 type activities like haircuts and manicures when they shouldn't even be allowing Phase 1 activities. This will all just prolong our great national nightmare.

But theme parks and especially cruising are Phase 3 and beyond types of activities. And in Phase 3, people with pre-existing conditions and the elderly are still cautioned that they should avoid large groups and socially distance from others.

I think that for awhile, that the most prevalent ships floating around at sea are going to be those oil tankers....filled to the brim with oil that they can't sell.

 

[o&smom]

What was the infection rate for the WBPC? Were there any deaths? I thought it appeared relatively low compared to othere ships. Maybe the cleanliness contributed to that?

People have been chastised on here for giving out info in regards to others on this cruise as “sharing personal information”. I do not agree with that since no names or actual personal info was shared, but I will respect others’ feelings on this. When we were on the cruise, we were told every day that no one had reported symptoms of the flu or Covid 19. We were notified by DCL exactly a week after we returned home that people had been diagnosed. We got tested the following Thursday just as a precaution since my husband was to return to work the following Monday. Shockingly my husband and I tested positive. We are waiting for accurate antibody testing to see if the kids had it and cleared the virus earlier than we did.

You can find some reported info by googling “Disney Wonder Covid 19”.

 

[MomOTwins]

People have been chastised on here for giving out info in regards to others on this cruise as “sharing personal information”. I do not agree with that since no names or actual personal info was shared, but I will respect others’ feelings on this. When we were on the cruise, we were told every day that no one had reported symptoms of the flu or Covid 19. We were notified by DCL exactly a week after we returned home that people had been diagnosed. We got tested the following Thursday just as a precaution since my husband was to return to work the following Monday. Shockingly my husband and I tested positive. We are waiting for accurate antibody testing to see if the kids had it and cleared the virus earlier than we did.

You can find some reported info by googling “Disney Wonder Covid 19”.

It is very possible that nobody showed symptoms on the cruise because they were asymptomatic carriers. Or someone developed symptoms during the cruise but feared being quarantined and missing out on a 14-day cruise they spent a fortune one (not to mention further quarantine after returning home) so did not report it. Both of which are why temperature checks at embarkation are a complete waste of time.

If DCL actually wanted to incentivize people to report symptoms, they would offer future cruise credit equivalent to the number of days a person is quarantined after reporting symptoms to the cruise doctor.

 

[o&smom]

It is very possible that nobody showed symptoms on the cruise because they were asymptomatic carriers. Or someone developed symptoms during the cruise but feared being quarantined and missing out on a 14-day cruise they spent a fortune one (not to mention further quarantine after returning home) so did not report it. Both of which are why temperature checks at embarkation are a complete waste of time.

If DCL actually wanted to incentivize people to report symptoms, they would offer future cruise credit equivalent to the number of days a person is quarantined after reporting symptoms to the cruise doctor.

That is a very creative and interesting idea about incentivizing! I like it!

 

[_auroraborealis_]

You bring up good points about furloughed staff and inability to get them back. But then I think, where exactly are they going to work? Another cruise line?

Well, "getting them back" has a couple of different takes. One of them is that if a crew member has gone home, getting back right now is brutal. Once back, every CM returning will be subject to 2 weeks of quarantine before they can actually do anything. The big thing is getting them into the US in the first place to get them on the ship to quarantine, though.

For the CMs who have been stuck on ships unable to be repatriated, many are not thrilled with where they're at right now and may not be willing to turn around and be magical again after 3+ months onboard a ship, unable to disembark or go home.

You can pretty much assume that we'll have roughly a month of warning, maybe more, before they start cruising again. They need to be bringing crew in, crew needs to be doing 2-week quarantines, and only then will real prep for passengers begin. For any of the production shows, they also need lead time to do rehearsals - even if they bring back established cast groupings, when you've not done a full run-through in 2 months you kinda sorta HAVE to, especially in productions with effects.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Well, "getting them back" has a couple of different takes. One of them is that if a crew member has gone home, getting back right now is brutal. Once back, every CM returning will be subject to 2 weeks of quarantine before they can actually do anything. The big thing is getting them into the US in the first place to get them on the ship to quarantine, though.

For the CMs who have been stuck on ships unable to be repatriated, many are not thrilled with where they're at right now and may not be willing to turn around and be magical again after 3+ months onboard a ship, unable to disembark or go home.

You can pretty much assume that we'll have roughly a month of warning, maybe more, before they start cruising again. They need to be bringing crew in, crew needs to be doing 2-week quarantines, and only then will real prep for passengers begin. For any of the production shows, they also need lead time to do rehearsals - even if they bring back established cast groupings, when you've not done a full run-through in 2 months you kinda sorta HAVE to, especially in productions with effects.

Yeah, all excellent points. It's not just a giant ship with thousands of people eating/drinking....it's a full-on entertainment production as well.