Cinderella and others arrested

[disneyobsessed808]

Well, if you have kids you could run around with them and no one would care. But if you were alone...yeah...you'd get some weird looks.

No kids yet. Haha, but I tried to run through the fountains quickly and discreetly to relive some of those memories.

 

[JaneJetson]

No kids yet. Haha, but I tried to run through the fountains quickly and discreetly to relive some of those memories.

The "and they lived happily ever after" thing in your icon...where is that?

 

[Disney Dreams]

Life is not always as simple as work hard & be rewarded.... Sometimes hard work isn't rewarded....

Exactly.

but without the judgments...we don't know what path those people have been down.

EXACTLY.

I hope life has shined on your through your struggles. Thanks for sharing.

- Dreams

 

[disneyobsessed808]

The "and they lived happily ever after" thing in your icon...where is that?

Its in the exit of the animation building in DCA.

 

[NVDisMom]

Lets see, in all the years I have been going to Disneyland at least twice a year it seems that crowds have gotten larger (business is good) and prices have gone up (real good). Never once have I begrudged the prices of hotels, food, or entry. The food quality has gone down the prices up. Just like the oil companies they (Disney) are making more than ever before.

In my opinion the least Disney could is take some of their profits and make their employees happy, not disgruntled so they can continue to deliver the experience we all go there for.

Why should Disney share? ANYBODY can do these lower level paying jobs. Let me say that again...anybody. Will you do it? No probably not, because you have skills that allow you NOT to do that kind of work. Does that make the housekeeper and bell hop a lesser person. No, absolutely not. But it does mean that they have to come to grips with accepting less pay than a more skilled worker and, possibly, less in the way of benefits. Disney shares their profits with those they, and the stockholders, feels they simply cannot do without. I'm sure the Imagineers have an amazing compensation plan. It probably includes profit sharing and tons of incentives. Is it fair? Heck yes its fair! An Imagineer is a one in a million type of employee. A housekeeper is a dime a dozen...there is always somebody else that can and will do the work. It is simply good business for Disney, or any other corporation, to pay as little as the market will bear. If Disney is trully underpaying and under compensating these lower level, unskilled jobs, then the employees they have will seek jobs elsewhere and they won't be able to fill the positions they need to keep their properties running smoothly. When that scenario occurs, then Disney will pay more and give better benefits.

These Unions are encouraging people to throw temper tantrums in the hopes that Disney will fold to their demands in order to not get any bad press. While there may be some value in that tactic, it is under handed and childish. One could dub this type of behavior as "employment terrorism". "Meet our ransom demands or else." Personally, I believe one should never negotiate with terrorists, no matter how insignificant and harmless their tactics are. Or who their target is.

Good for Disney for sticking to their guns and ensuring any 401k portfolios out there that hold Disney stock continue to flourish.

 

[NVDisMom]

I just want to add one thing to the college issue. Sometimes things happen in life that make it impossible to get to college. When I had just turned 21 my father died unexpectedly and I ended up being fully responsible for a very ill mother. For the next 11 years I had to deal with her extremely unpredictable disease and there was no way for me to hold a job let alone get through school. My 20s were basically a write off. Even now that she is in a home I still have to deal with the occasional crisis. Fortunately I met my husband before this happened because I certainly would not have gotten married had I not met him first. But even he made career sacrifices due to my mother since he had to hold a job where he could leave to pick her up off the floor a couple times a week without warning. We also avoided moving to areas where the job prospects were MUCH better since we couldn't leave her alone in a town and moving her would have been almost impossible. Life is not always as simple as work hard & be rewarded, or you are a product of your choices. Sometimes life doesn't give you a choice in terms of what you will get to deal with. Sometimes hard work isn't rewarded. That said I would still use the strike as a great time to push the merits of college on my kids, but without the judgments...we don't know what path those people have been down.

You are an awesome daughter to have sacrificed so much for your mother. Some children would not make the CHOICE to sacrifice their own future for family in the way you have.

I believe hard work is always rewarded, just not necessarily in ways one would expect (like $$$).

 

[NVDisMom]

No, I don't.

My point was that I don't make that much more than they do, even as someone with a bachelor's AND that its hard enough making ends meet without having family members to support. It goes to show even with an education, finding a job or quiiting a job and finding another, is easier said than done.

I wish I had a union though that would protect me from being fired without cause, protect the benefits promised in compensation packages (and not rescinding them even though there's a contract), and ensuring a healthy work environment

You were saying that 14.50 is much more than minimum wage and so we should put that in perspective. But you also, have to take into perspective that the grandmother is supporting three grandchildren and her mother.

An employee does not need a Union to protect them, in most fields, as you describe. There are a number of laws on the books and agencies that provide protection. Federal and State gov't oversight has become burdensome in many cases to the natural course of business in a capitalist economy. Employees that have been wronged can use the court system as well, if it came down to that.

As for the grandmother supporting her grandchildren and her mother...While sad, the question begs to be asked...Where in the picture are her children that parented her grandchildren? Irregardless, the sitution is the result of CHOICES. Even if said shildren died in a tragic car accident, leaving the grandchildren with no life insurance or other source of viable income until they are of age...it is still a choice to take those grandchildren in instead of sending them to an foster/adoptive family. Is it the choice I would make? ABSOLUTELY, without a doubt. But it is still my choice. And why should she get preferential treatment versus the single, young guy working at Disney while pursuing an acting career in SoCal? I love how journalists find the sob story that is supposed to pull at my heart strings so that they can make the big, greedy, evil corporation look worse.

 

[pixiewings71]

HAHAHAHAHA!! I seriously laughed out loud at that.

thank you, I do try.

I just want to add one thing to the college issue. Sometimes things happen in life that make it impossible to get to college. When I had just turned 21 my father died unexpectedly and I ended up being fully responsible for a very ill mother. For the next 11 years I had to deal with her extremely unpredictable disease and there was no way for me to hold a job let alone get through school. My 20s were basically a write off. Even now that she is in a home I still have to deal with the occasional crisis. Fortunately I met my husband before this happened because I certainly would not have gotten married had I not met him first. But even he made career sacrifices due to my mother since he had to hold a job where he could leave to pick her up off the floor a couple times a week without warning. We also avoided moving to areas where the job prospects were MUCH better since we couldn't leave her alone in a town and moving her would have been almost impossible. Life is not always as simple as work hard & be rewarded, or you are a product of your choices. Sometimes life doesn't give you a choice in terms of what you will get to deal with. Sometimes hard work isn't rewarded. That said I would still use the strike as a great time to push the merits of college on my kids, but without the judgments...we don't know what path those people have been down.

You ROCK!!! That's all, you're just awesome.

No, I don't.

My point was that I don't make that much more than they do, even as someone with a bachelor's AND that its hard enough making ends meet without having family members to support. It goes to show even with an education, finding a job or quiiting a job and finding another, is easier said than done.

I wish I had a union though that would protect me from being fired without cause, protect the benefits promised in compensation packages (and not rescinding them even though there's a contract), and ensuring a healthy work environment

You were saying that 14.50 is much more than minimum wage and so we should put that in perspective. But you also, have to take into perspective that the grandmother is supporting three grandchildren and her mother.

Quick note here. My DBF has a BS in Environmental Science, I don't have any college degrees but I did take some classes once...many years ago. I make $2000 a year less than he does. That's it, and he's been with his company for 8 yrs while I've been with mine for 6. Having a degree doesn't always guarantee you making more money. AND I've got 3 kids, 2 still at home but one has moved on and is making her own way. I'm not whining about not making enough, that woman who is caring for her grandchildren and Mother, she needs to get assistance if things are truly that hard. There are programs for people who need help, I know, I've use them myself. Anyway a degree doesn't always guarantee a great paying job (btw, my bennies are better than his too), being smart, hard working and willing to give a lot are much better than a degree. And no way would either of us take a Union job without a lot of thought and discussion. Unions aren't the devil but they aren't wonderful either.

So water rides....are we done with that convo? The water play area in DCA is over by McD's and there's one over in Bug's Land too...I like Bug's Land, especially walking thru the cereal box in the beginning.

 

[disneyobsessed808]

An employee does not need a Union to protect them, in most fields, as you describe. There are a number of laws on the books and agencies that provide protection. Federal and State gov't oversight has become burdensome in many cases to the natural course of business in a capitalist economy. Employees that have been wronged can use the court system as well, if it came down to that.

As for the grandmother supporting her grandchildren and her mother...While sad, the question begs to be asked...Where in the picture are her children that parented her grandchildren? Irregardless, the sitution is the result of CHOICES. Even if said shildren died in a tragic car accident, leaving the grandchildren with no life insurance or other source of viable income until they are of age...it is still a choice to take those grandchildren in instead of sending them to an foster/adoptive family. Is it the choice I would make? ABSOLUTELY, without a doubt. But it is still my choice. And why should she get preferential treatment versus the single, young guy working at Disney while pursuing an acting career in SoCal? I love how journalists find the sob story that is supposed to pull at my heart strings so that they can make the big, greedy, evil corporation look worse.

The union would provide me with lawyers that would help me fight lawyers that my company is able to hire. They protect my rights as an employee.

It's also Disney's choice to exploit their workers. While were at it, lets hire 12 year olds. I mean it should be their choice right. The fact of the matter is that its not as much of a choice for the workers. I bet many of them don't have the money or the skillset to go to college or the time and I bet that many hotel workers have families to support. Let family die or work at minimum wage even though its greatly underpaid. That's hardly a choice.

 

[disneyobsessed808]

Quick note here. My DBF has a BS in Environmental Science, I don't have any college degrees but I did take some classes once...many years ago. I make $2000 a year less than he does. That's it, and he's been with his company for 8 yrs while I've been with mine for 6. Having a degree doesn't always guarantee you making more money. AND I've got 3 kids, 2 still at home but one has moved on and is making her own way. I'm not whining about not making enough, that woman who is caring for her grandchildren and Mother, she needs to get assistance if things are truly that hard. There are programs for people who need help, I know, I've use them myself. Anyway a degree doesn't always guarantee a great paying job (btw, my bennies are better than his too), being smart, hard working and willing to give a lot are much better than a degree. And no way would either of us take a Union job without a lot of thought and discussion. Unions aren't the devil but they aren't wonderful either.

You've made my point. Many people in this thread seem to think that its easy for these workers to get an education to get a better job. That's not necessarily the case. Its hard just to get an education because of costs, time, obligations. Even a better education, even if you are the world's hardest worker, doesn't guarantee a well-paying job. They also seem to think that these people don't work hard or have real jobs. That's hardly the case. Its hard to secure any job much of the time, so you have to take what is offered even if it is a severely underpaying one. Many people don't have the time to talk things over, because they need money to put food on the table. They do this work because it's a job they can get, and because unfortunately, someone has to do it. We don't clean hotels for a living because we don't want to, not simply because we don't have to.

The grandmother did get assistance in the form of benefits she was promised and Disney reneged on them, plain and simple. I bet she is not the only one supporting a family, either. Unions aren't the end-all be-all, but they do some good too.

 

[disneyobsessed808]

Why should Disney share? ANYBODY can do these lower level paying jobs. Let me say that again...anybody. Will you do it? No probably not, because you have skills that allow you NOT to do that kind of work. Does that make the housekeeper and bell hop a lesser person. No, absolutely not. But it does mean that they have to come to grips with accepting less pay than a more skilled worker and, possibly, less in the way of benefits. Disney shares their profits with those they, and the stockholders, feels they simply cannot do without. I'm sure the Imagineers have an amazing compensation plan. It probably includes profit sharing and tons of incentives. Is it fair? Heck yes its fair! An Imagineer is a one in a million type of employee. A housekeeper is a dime a dozen...there is always somebody else that can and will do the work. It is simply good business for Disney, or any other corporation, to pay as little as the market will bear. If Disney is trully underpaying and under compensating these lower level, unskilled jobs, then the employees they have will seek jobs elsewhere and they won't be able to fill the positions they need to keep their properties running smoothly. When that scenario occurs, then Disney will pay more and give better benefits.

These Unions are encouraging people to throw temper tantrums in the hopes that Disney will fold to their demands in order to not get any bad press. While there may be some value in that tactic, it is under handed and childish. One could dub this type of behavior as "employment terrorism". "Meet our ransom demands or else." Personally, I believe one should never negotiate with terrorists, no matter how insignificant and harmless their tactics are. Or who their target is.

Good for Disney for sticking to their guns and ensuring any 401k portfolios out there that hold Disney stock continue to flourish.

The employment terrorist line is about the most ridiculous thing said on here. If they're terrorist, Disney are slavedrivers (I'm not saying they are, but if the employees are terrorists, I'd say that's something equally ridiculous)

Well, they should share because they are making the profit by exploiting them. Maybe anybody can do what they do, but many people don't want to do what they do. Just because someone else is willing to do the job for the same pay, doesn't mean its fair pay. Someone in China may be willing to work for pennies a day, but that does not make it fair. Regardless of it being good business (so is Child Labor and outsourcing jobs to India), its not fair

 

[perlster]

video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpKTalBKOFs

 

[AmericanItGirl]

Really? You would love to go home every night with back pain, sore arms, carpal tunnel, and *gasp* spend hours in a hot costume in 98 degree weather with crying kids, demanding parents, sore feet, and have to force a smile? I'm not so sure I would like to do so. It'd be much easier to sit in an air conditioned office typing and answering phones.

Um, I would happily agree to be a face character or a parade performer if I could (my dream since I was a kid). It's all a matter of having the opportunity to audition and without currently owning a car, I have to wait for an audition that is scheduled on a day where my mom could drive me down to Anaheim and back. I have a very demanding staff who ask me to do near impossible things all the time (one of them just loves to complain when things don't go exactly the way she wants it to even when she's the one who messed things up) which is on par with dealing with any whiny and cranky kids/parents that I've had to deal with as a babysitter/camp counselor/usher (if not worse because at least the latter don't have my cell #/email address). As for the heat? It's so cold in the spot where I work that even if I wear a sweater, I still have to keep my coat on because we have no heat. As for a sore body, I've had to do plenty of heavy lifting on a regular basis (boxes filled with stuff, moving around parts of fax machines, etc.) without any comfort of knowing that I have health insurance. So really in my eyes, your argument just makes them seem more like whiny brats more than ever.

 

[YellowMickeyPonchos]

Just thought I would share this article with some interesting points of clarification:

• The entire protest was arranged to end in arrests.
• It was done so that no Cast Members were arrested.
• Anaheim police worked with union officials so the union statement could be made and everyone would be cleared quickly.

Essentially, it was completely choreographed.

Here the story.

I'm not taking sides in this but I did have a question that makes me suspicious of whoever is managing this issue on the Union side...

If the people dressed up and acting like they were CMs all for the purpose of getting arrested, were indeed not CMs, then who were they and what business did they have involved on the front lines of the "battle"? Do unions hire or recruit people to do this for them? I am not familiar with this sort of protesting activity, so I genuinely don't understand what gain that involves, except for publicity and to confuse small children. Why would you "take the hit" and get an arrest record for something you aren't directly involved with. Is it like hiring actors to shill a crowd? It certainly isn't like tree activists or the Free Tibet protesting - they take the hit for their own actions.

Maybe I just personally don't believe in something strongly enough that I would want to go to jail for someone else's cause.

 

[Disney Davo]

Thanks for the video, I will never look at Mousekeeping ever the same way again; they are completely pathetic. I think their Union is doing them wrong by this kind of protest. Employees (and ones with Union's) have rights and guess what? Management has rights too, so foolish employees beware.

 

[NVDisMom]

The employment terrorist line is about the most ridiculous thing said on here. If they're terrorist, Disney are slavedrivers (I'm not saying they are, but if the employees are terrorists, I'd say that's something equally ridiculous)

Well, they should share because they are making the profit by exploiting them. Maybe anybody can do what they do, but many people don't want to do what they do. Just because someone else is willing to do the job for the same pay, doesn't mean its fair pay. Someone in China may be willing to work for pennies a day, but that does not make it fair. Regardless of it being good business (so is Child Labor and outsourcing jobs to India), its not fair

I know its rediculous...that is precisely my point. The behavior on the part of the union and its minions is rediculous. Child labor laws are there for a reason, reasons I whole heartedly agree with. And they will be enforced by the appropriate agency when necessary. The courts are there as a back up. Same with labor laws in general. Now, the outsourcing. The number one reason jobs are outsourced is profit. When a company cannot be profitable using American workers, then they will seek outside sources to get the job done. Remember, we as consumers insist on low cost goods. If we were willing to pay more, then there would be more funds available to keep production and customer service jobs here in the US.

I'll tell you what. Let's start a fund. All of us Disers that feel Disney is in the wrong...donate 15% more for every item you purchase from them. Hotel rooms, park hoppers, food, souvies, etc, etc. Inform Disney that the money you are contributing is to go directly to these workers benefits package, that way the 50 year old grandma and her fellow compatriots can keep the same level of insurance they have received in years past at the same cost. That way Disney will not have to absorb the increased costs, and neither will these specific union employees. Those of us that do not support union employees' demands for more in a competitive world can continue to pay the current rates and enjoy having our dollar go further than yours.

I hope you feel better knowing that your hard earned dollar (well 15% of them spent at Disney) is supporting a group of people that feel they are entitled to more than the guy next door just because they work for Disney.

I, on the other hand, will spend that same 15% more on enhancing my future vacations with Disney. Or not, and it will pad my bank account. Either way I am perfectly happy paying less for the same services that you are contributing 15% more to.

Or Disney can simply charge 15% more on everything which will hurt their bottom line. Just as gas prices have recently driven demand for gasoline down, raising prices in this economy will drive down attendance numbers. Heck, it already has. Then where will these emloyees be? There won't be as many jobs available because Disney doesn't require their services because there are not as many paying patrons to support the enterprise.

 

[JadeDarkstar]

sorry there fault and no way ami giving up 15% of my funds to them.

like i say CMs who play the charcters actuely give up (25% of there checks for health care just like umm my dad my other family members all kinds of other ppl ive talked to.

so why shouldnt they if they wnat health care pay for that part like the others do.

How hard is it to understand dressing up and acting a fool is not gona get your way..
see i just saw the news about it finely I had no idea or i didnt catch it that they were out in front of gch and blocking off the street and stuff thats un called for.

even the cops said get back on the side walks. These ppl deserved to be arested if im standing out there protesting and a cop tells me to back up to the side walk..im going to. You dont stop trafic, you dont fight with cops out there. Thats just dumb
move back to the sidewalk and continue your chants but id never dress up like the charcters and ruine ppls vacations.

 

[Disney Dreams]

I'm not taking sides in this but I did have a question that makes me suspicious of whoever is managing this issue on the Union side...

If the people dressed up and acting like they were CMs all for the purpose of getting arrested, were indeed not CMs, then who were they and what business did they have involved on the front lines of the "battle"? Do unions hire or recruit people to do this for them? I am not familiar with this sort of protesting activity, so I genuinely don't understand what gain that involves, except for publicity and to confuse small children. Why would you "take the hit" and get an arrest record for something you aren't directly involved with. Is it like hiring actors to shill a crowd? It certainly isn't like tree activists or the Free Tibet protesting - they take the hit for their own actions.

Maybe I just personally don't believe in something strongly enough that I would want to go to jail for someone else's cause.

I'm not completely sure on the answer to your question as to who actually got arrested, but the article says were NOT current Disneyland employees. The union made sure of that so they could not be negatively affected in their work. I DID read something that among those arrested were the President of the mirror union (if that's the wording? LOL) for the WDW CMs. I believe they "take the hit" because if they ever needed help, the other union would help them? That's what unions do I guess. IDK for sure.

And no one went to jail (unless they had outstanding warrants). The article says they were in plastic cuffs, processed, issued citations, and released.

 

[disneyobsessed808]

I know its rediculous...that is precisely my point. The behavior on the part of the union and its minions is rediculous. Child labor laws are there for a reason, reasons I whole heartedly agree with. And they will be enforced by the appropriate agency when necessary. The courts are there as a back up. Same with labor laws in general. Now, the outsourcing. The number one reason jobs are outsourced is profit. When a company cannot be profitable using American workers, then they will seek outside sources to get the job done. Remember, we as consumers insist on low cost goods. If we were willing to pay more, then there would be more funds available to keep production and customer service jobs here in the US.

What's ridiculous is you calling them terrorists, not their tactics

Child labor laws are in effect because unions pushed for them. If Disney had their way, it would be completely legal to employ children as housekeepers.

Outsourcing is not done when there's no profit, its just done when they are able to be more greedy to get more profit.

Most aren't willing to pay more, because companies continue to keep wages low and most can't afford anything else.

I'll tell you what. Let's start a fund. All of us Disers that feel Disney is in the wrong...donate 15% more for every item you purchase from them. Hotel rooms, park hoppers, food, souvies, etc, etc. Inform Disney that the money you are contributing is to go directly to these workers benefits package, that way the 50 year old grandma and her fellow compatriots can keep the same level of insurance they have received in years past at the same cost. That way Disney will not have to absorb the increased costs, and neither will these specific union employees. Those of us that do not support union employees' demands for more in a competitive world can continue to pay the current rates and enjoy having our dollar go further than yours.

I probably won't do that because its not my job to treat the employees fairly. That's the employers job. Also, considering that profits are going up, in part at least because of housekeeping, the housekeeping is still continuing to make wages that don't correspond with the increased profits and don't correspond with the rising cost of living. In this way they are absorbing the costs, since their wages are staying low, while the cost of living increases. Also, they are absorbing the costs, since they decided to take lower wages in exchange for better healthcare.

I hope you feel better knowing that your hard earned dollar (well 15% of them spent at Disney) is supporting a group of people that feel they are entitled to more than the guy next door just because they work for Disney.

Actually if you read the article, they don't get paid more. They are paid $2-3 dollars less, and the employees at other resort get free health care. They should be paid competitively with hotels in the area. Yes, you can say they can find another job, but its really not that simple. Also, my dollar is hard earned, but so is every penny they make, and every benefit they're promised.

I, on the other hand, will spend that same 15% more on enhancing my future vacations with Disney. Or not, and it will pad my bank account. Either way I am perfectly happy paying less for the same services that you are contributing 15% more to.

Or Disney can simply charge 15% more on everything which will hurt their bottom line. Just as gas prices have recently driven demand for gasoline down, raising prices in this economy will drive down attendance numbers. Heck, it already has. Then where will these emloyees be? There won't be as many jobs available because Disney doesn't require their services because there are not as many paying patrons to support the enterprise.

They can afford to absorb the costs without having to charge any more. They are choosing not to, well, because they're greedy and they are. In addition, even if demand for gas has gone down, but profits for gas have gone up. Exxon-Mobil reported record profits last quarter. Disney will continue to enjoy profit regardless of whether or not they raise prices, because people (myself included) want to stay there (I won't, since I don't have money to use on a room I won't be in most of the time.)

 

[Sk8Leigh]

Of course you could. And if your current employer wanted to take away some of your benefits, I would hope you would speak up and fight for yourself before they were lost. I know I would.

There's really nothing to speak up about. It's the company's decision on what to offer, and then it would be my decision if I wanted to stay or look for a new job. That's the way it should be.

Do you have any understanding that without unions, you would be working six days a week, 12 hour days, and your children would likely have to be working as well?

Unions have a place in history, and that's where they should remain. Their time has passed.

I like this quote:

Ava Briceno, president of Unite Here Local 681 said "At the other hotels in the same classification, for the same work, the workers get paid $2 to $3 an hour more."

Instead of telling that to the press she should tell that to her union members so that they can go work somewhere else!

Why should Disney share? ANYBODY can do these lower level paying jobs. Let me say that again...anybody. Will you do it? No probably not, because you have skills that allow you NOT to do that kind of work. Does that make the housekeeper and bell hop a lesser person. No, absolutely not. But it does mean that they have to come to grips with accepting less pay than a more skilled worker and, possibly, less in the way of benefits. Disney shares their profits with those they, and the stockholders, feels they simply cannot do without. I'm sure the Imagineers have an amazing compensation plan. It probably includes profit sharing and tons of incentives. Is it fair? Heck yes its fair! An Imagineer is a one in a million type of employee. A housekeeper is a dime a dozen...there is always somebody else that can and will do the work. It is simply good business for Disney, or any other corporation, to pay as little as the market will bear. If Disney is trully underpaying and under compensating these lower level, unskilled jobs, then the employees they have will seek jobs elsewhere and they won't be able to fill the positions they need to keep their properties running smoothly. When that scenario occurs, then Disney will pay more and give better benefits.

Yep, that's capitalism, baby!