Christians and Gays, Opinions please

Cindyluwho

<font color=red>I luv my chickens!<br><font color=
Joined
Oct 19, 2002
Messages
3,203
I read an article the other day in the Seattle Times and it's been weighing very heavy on my mind. It addresses those Christians that believe that homosexuality is wrong because it says so in the bible.

It refers to people "who dress their homophobia up in the Scripture, insisting with sanctmionious sincerity that it's not homophobia at all, but just a pious determination to live according to what the Bible says. And never mind that the Bible also says it is "disgraceful" for a woman to speak out in church (1 Corinthians 14:34-36) and that if she has any questions, she should wait till she gets home and ask her husband. Never mind that the Bible says the penalty for going to work on Sunday (Exodus 35:1-3) is death. Never mind that the Bible says the man who rapes a virgin should buy her from her father (Deuteronomy 22:28-29) and marry her. I'm going to speculate that you don't observe or support those commands. Which says to me that yours is a literalism of convenience, a literalism that is literal only so long as it allows you to condemn what you'd be condemning anyway and takes no skin off your personal backside. Meanwhile, people are ignorant in Appalachia, strung out in Miami, starving in Niger, sex slaves in India, mass murdered in Darfur. Where is the Christian outrage about that?"
He later states that "Just once, I'd like to read a headline that said a Christian group was boycotting to feed the hungry. Or marching to house the homeless."

This article was so huge for me. I've always had a bad feeling about folks who recite bible verses to prove their point but this put it better than I ever could have.

I'd like to hear what the Dissers have to say about this. Especially the Christian Bible folk. IF, IF we can have a mature discussion with no bashing please. I know this is a heated topic but I'd like to know how a person can accept some passages from the bible and not all.
 
It may be hard to have a mature discussion when it appears that the article you referred to is simply another bashing piece...
Which says to me that yours is a literalism of convenience, a literalism that is literal only so long as it allows you to condemn what you'd be condemning anyway and takes no skin off your personal backside. Meanwhile, people are ignorant in Appalachia, strung out in Miami, starving in Niger, sex slaves in India, mass murdered in Darfur. Where is the Christian outrage about that?"

He later states that "Just once, I'd like to read a headline that said a Christian group was boycotting to feed the hungry. Or marching to house the homeless."
Maybe you could post a link to the entire article so people could read it in its entirety and relate these quotes to the entire context. Thanks!
 
not use bible verses to prove their point? what else do you think we need or are allowed to use?
 
uh oh....here we go again. Check out the thread on opinions on "is being gay a lifestyle choice" or something like that
 

Cindyluwho said:
Which says to me that yours is a literalism of convenience, a literalism that is literal only so long as it allows you to condemn what you'd be condemning anyway and takes no skin off your personal backside.
I find that some Christians (note I said "some") only use scripture when it's convenient for them. IMO, those who condemn the use of birth control yet shop at stores that sell birth control are hypocrits. A pharmacist who refuses to fill a prescription for BCP should not even be working at a pharmacy that keeps them in stock. I fully believe the same goes for their views on homosexuality. They have every right not to be in favor of the practice. But they have no right to infringe their belief on others. To use the Bible to further their "cause" is sickening.
 
"Just once, I'd like to read a headline that said a Christian group was boycotting to feed the hungry. Or marching to house the homeless. Or pushing Congress to provide the poor with health care worthy of the name."

The above quote was from the article.

Unfortunately you probably won't read in the headlines about the work that Christians do for people in need. There are two reasons for that the first is because it's not very newsworthy to report about a group of Christians helping people and second because the works of charity are often done is secret and anonymously as unto God not for our personal "pats on the back."


It's difficult for people who are not fundamentalist Christians to understand how we take the Bible literally. We don't usually pick out individual verses to use them to justify anything. Our literal interpretations are taken from study and reading of the entire scriptures and using them in context to understand them.

With that said, the verse about women not speaking in church was taken out of context. It refers to women not preaching in church to the congregation, not to women talking amoungst themselves or casually having conversations. Even then, there are other verses in the Bible which say is OK for women to talk in church...talk meaning teach...and that is found in Titus 2:3 when women are asked to train the younger women in the congregation....and finally, yes, my church still follows those guidelines, only men are pastors, deacons or trustees in my congreagation.

The other two verses were taken from the Old Testament and when Jesus came in the New Testament many of the laws the Jewish people had to live under were done away with...including the ones you mentioned.


Finally, this conversation does sound really familiar as we have had it recently in the Gay lifestyle thread...I think what we've come to is an agreement to disagree. Christian fundamentals like myself are sincere when they say they do not harbor ill will towards gay people, I'm not afraid of gay people and I love them as Jesus tells me to love everyone. I just don't agree with what they do.


There are many people on the world who are "Partiers". They enjoy drinking to get drunk and do it often. I'm not "drinkaphobic" but that is an example of lifestyle I don't agree with. The Bible says we shouldn't get drunk. But I still have friends that get drunk all the time who dance and go to clubs etc...a close friend in particular. I pray for her, I share my faith with her, and I love her to death. She doesn't see things the same way I do...but that's another "lifestyle" that most christian fundamentals don't agree with. If I can love my friend who parties, why can't anyone believe I can love a gay person? :confused3
 
OT, but is that your kitchen? I love that kitchen.

I am not capable of playing nice on topics like these, so I will leave it, your kitchen rocks!
 
JoyG said:
"Just once, I'd like to read a headline that said a Christian group was boycotting to feed the hungry. Or marching to house the homeless. Or pushing Congress to provide the poor with health care worthy of the name."

The above quote was from the article.

Unfortunately you probably won't read in the headlines about the work that Christians do for people in need. There are two reasons for that the first is because it's not very newsworthy to report about a group of Christians helping people and second because the works of charity are often done is secret and anonymously as unto God not for our personal "pats on the back."


It's difficult for people who are not fundamentalist Christians to understand how we take the Bible literally. We don't usually pick out individual verses to use them to justify anything. Our literal interpretations are taken from study and reading of the entire scriptures and using them in context to understand them.

With that said, the verse about women not speaking in church was taken out of context. It refers to women not preaching in church to the congregation, not to women talking amoungst themselves or casually having conversations. Even then, there are other verses in the Bible which say is OK for women to talk in church...talk meaning teach...and that is found in Titus 2:3 when women are asked to train the younger women in the congregation....and finally, yes, my church still follows those guidelines, only men are pastors, deacons or trustees in my congreagation.

The other two verses were taken from the Old Testament and when Jesus came in the New Testament many of the laws the Jewish people had to live under were done away with...including the ones you mentioned.


Finally, this conversation does sound really familiar as we have had it recently in the Gay lifestyle thread...I think what we've come to is an agreement to disagree. Christian fundamentals like myself are sincere when they say they do not harbor ill will towards gay people, I'm not afraid of gay people and I love them as Jesus tells me to love everyone. I just don't agree with what they do.


There are many people on the world who are "Partiers". They enjoy drinking to get drunk and do it often. I'm not "drinkaphobic" but that is an example of lifestyle I don't agree with. The Bible says we shouldn't get drunk. But I still have friends that get drunk all the time who dance and go to clubs etc...a close friend in particular. I pray for her, I share my faith with her, and I love her to death. She doesn't see things the same way I do...but that's another "lifestyle" that most christian fundamentals don't agree with. If I can love my friend who parties, why can't anyone believe I can love a gay person? :confused3

Very well said!! I congratulate your grace and style ;)
 
Progressive slant.

Sexual orientation is no barrier to God. It does not affect your capacity to do good or to love the Lord.

There is much discussion on whether homosexuality is due to nature or nurture in psychological circles.

There is evidence that forced sexual change does not work, however. One particular subject had his genitalia destroyed as an infant and was brought up as a girl by his parents on the advice of developmental psychologists. He became aggressive and violent through adolescence and eventually shot himself with a shotgun later on in life. For this reason, I lean towards the "nature" label.



Rich::
 
goofy's friends said:
Very well said!! I congratulate your grace and style ;)


I was just thinking the same thing and agree entirely with everything she said. :thumbsup2
 
Didn't we just spend a good part of 1,055 posts discussing most of this?

And on that thread, at least the OP was stated in a neutral manner without inflammatory faux words such as "homophobia."
 
I started to go to church last year, reading the bible and getting invovled with the church activities.
I do enjoy reading the bible and gotten some comfort from it.
But I don't agree that being gay is wrong. I've known many good people that are gay. I could never think that they are any less than christians or anyone else.
 
Cindyluwho said:
He later states that "Just once, I'd like to read a headline that said a Christian group was boycotting to feed the hungry. Or marching to house the homeless."

Amen!
 
Hey, in religion, we're all interpreting the bible to some extent. I think what really matters is are we using religion to serve and help people and make this place a better place to live, or are we using it to exclude, judge and condemn people?
 
I'm not feeling up to debating tonight but I did want to say that contradictions and selective interpretations of the bible are exactly why I walked away from the church and am now a card carrying athiest.

I also don't get how being yourself is a sin. Gay people were born gay, just like straight people are born straight. What's so sinful about being yourself??
 
I agree that there are a lot of hypocrites who cherry pick what they are against out of the Bible. The Bible says that neither homosexuals nor drunkards will get to heaven. The day I see the same people protesting gays also protesting at the local bar is the day I won't believe they're hypocrites.

"Neither fornicators, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Corinthians 6: 6-9)
 
JoyG said:
"Just once, I'd like to read a headline that said a Christian group was boycotting to feed the hungry. Or marching to house the homeless. Or pushing Congress to provide the poor with health care worthy of the name."

The above quote was from the article.

Unfortunately you probably won't read in the headlines about the work that Christians do for people in need. There are two reasons for that the first is because it's not very newsworthy to report about a group of Christians helping people and second because the works of charity are often done is secret and anonymously as unto God not for our personal "pats on the back."


It's difficult for people who are not fundamentalist Christians to understand how we take the Bible literally. We don't usually pick out individual verses to use them to justify anything. Our literal interpretations are taken from study and reading of the entire scriptures and using them in context to understand them.

With that said, the verse about women not speaking in church was taken out of context. It refers to women not preaching in church to the congregation, not to women talking amoungst themselves or casually having conversations. Even then, there are other verses in the Bible which say is OK for women to talk in church...talk meaning teach...and that is found in Titus 2:3 when women are asked to train the younger women in the congregation....and finally, yes, my church still follows those guidelines, only men are pastors, deacons or trustees in my congreagation.

The other two verses were taken from the Old Testament and when Jesus came in the New Testament many of the laws the Jewish people had to live under were done away with...including the ones you mentioned.


Finally, this conversation does sound really familiar as we have had it recently in the Gay lifestyle thread...I think what we've come to is an agreement to disagree. Christian fundamentals like myself are sincere when they say they do not harbor ill will towards gay people, I'm not afraid of gay people and I love them as Jesus tells me to love everyone. I just don't agree with what they do.


There are many people on the world who are "Partiers". They enjoy drinking to get drunk and do it often. I'm not "drinkaphobic" but that is an example of lifestyle I don't agree with. The Bible says we shouldn't get drunk. But I still have friends that get drunk all the time who dance and go to clubs etc...a close friend in particular. I pray for her, I share my faith with her, and I love her to death. She doesn't see things the same way I do...but that's another "lifestyle" that most christian fundamentals don't agree with. If I can love my friend who parties, why can't anyone believe I can love a gay person? :confused3

Once again, JoyG says it best. I wholeheartly agree.
 
Here is an article from the Toronto Star about the head of a Christian peacekeeper team James Loney who was rescued recently from captivity in Iraq after 4 months. He is gay. Why is okay for some Christians and not others?


Peace activist comes home
Says he's been in a constant state of wonder since his rescue
Activist expected to return to hometown of Sault Ste. Marie
Mar. 27, 2006. 04:40 AM
MICHELLE SHEPHARD AND JESSICA LEEDER
IN TORONTO


James Loney returned to Toronto yesterday humbled by the international attention his captivity garnered and praising all those who helped bring him home — from the Palestinian children who carried his picture to protest his kidnapping, to the British soldier who cut the chains that bound him.

"It was a terrifying, profound, powerful, transformative and excruciatingly boring experience. Since my release, my rescue from captivity, I have been in a constant state of wonder, bewilderment, surprise, as I slowly discover the magnitude of the efforts to secure our lives and freedom," Loney said at Pearson International Airport in the first public statement since his release on Thursday.

"I am grateful in a way that can never be adequately expressed in words."

Upon arriving at the airport yesterday afternoon, Loney met privately with his partner, Dan Hunt, and his two brothers and sister-in-law, who had flown from Vancouver to be with him. He later stood before as many as 40 reporters, his brother's hand on his shoulder, as he read from a handwritten statement.

On his shirt was a pin of an Iraqi and Canadian flag intertwined and one from the Mounties — likely a souvenir given to him once safe inside the fortified green zone in Baghdad, or during his long journey home.

Loney was the leader of a Christian Peacemaker Team that met in Baghdad last November to help displaced Iraqis and bear witness to the effects of the U.S.-led occupation.

He was kidnapped on Nov. 26 with Canadian Harmeet Sooden, Briton Norman Kember and American Tom Fox in Baghdad. A previously unknown group calling itself Swords of the Righteous Brigade later claimed responsibility.

For the four months the group was held in captivity, a secretive team known as Task Force Black, led by British military and intelligence officers, but including a small contingent of Canadians, looked for clues to their whereabouts.

On Feb. 12, Fox was separated from the others — his body was dumped on a Baghdad street earlier this month. He had been shot in the head and chest.

Kember arrived in London on Saturday and immediately faced criticism for what the British media portrayed as an ungrateful attitude toward the troops who rescued him. One tabloid ran the headline: "Norman's grudging thanks."

But Loney was effusive in his thanks yesterday, crediting the "hand of solidarity."

"For the British soldiers who risked their lives to rescue us, for the government of Canada who sent a team to Baghdad to help secure our release, for all those who thought about and prayed for us, for all those who spoke for us when we had no voice, I am forever and truly grateful. It's great to be alive."

He also made note of others who had lost their freedom.

"There are so many people that need this hand of solidarity, right now, today, and I'm thinking specifically of prisoners being held all over the world; people who have disappeared into an abyss of detention without charges, due process, hope for release, some victims of physical and psychological torture, people unknown and forgotten. It is my deepest wish that every forsaken human being should have a hand of solidarity reaching out to them," he told reporters.

The peacemakers' release has sparked a debate worldwide about the role of activists or human rights groups in Baghdad, where kidnappings have blossomed into a lucrative and sometimes politically influential business.

Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay yesterday warned other Canadians not to follow in dangerous footsteps and risk a trip to Iraq, the Toronto Star's Bruce Campion-Smith reports.

"I understand the motivation. It's compassionate, purely aimed at humanitarian efforts, help and aid and assistance," MacKay said on CTV's Question Period, but he suggested the risk wasn't worth it.

"The way things are in Iraq right now, I would suggest that it would be preferable that Canadians stayed out of Iraq until such time as circumstances stabilize," he said.

Toronto Catholic high school teacher Tom O'Brien feels with so little aid going to Iraqi civilians devastated by the war and few Western eyes to document human rights abuses, the role of these organizations is vital. He believes the CPT members should be praised as heroes.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
`The way things are in Iraq right now, I would suggest that it would be preferable that Canadians stayed out.'

Peter MacKay, foreign affairs minister

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"I know it's a paradox that attention is brought to what they do because they were taken hostage," O'Brien said. "(But) they took a pacifist stance and we need to take that seriously."

O'Brien doesn't know Loney, but came to the airport yesterday to thank him for the work he did in the region and congratulate him on his freedom.

As Loney returned to Toronto, Sooden, a former Montreal resident, met with his father and brother-in-law in Dubai in the United Arab Emirates before boarding another flight to New Zealand where he'll be met by a controversy of his own.


In what's being dubbed "chequebook journalism," New Zealand media are criticizing a deal Sooden's family made with a television station. The state-owned TVNZ broadcaster reportedly paid for his father's and brother-in-law's flight to Dubai in exchange for an agreement that he'd tell his story exclusively to it.

Loney says he'll tell his full story in time. He kept details of his captivity in the notebooks his kidnappers provided. Now, he says, he still needs to understand his freedom.

"For 118 days I disappeared into a black hole and somehow, by God's grace, I was spit out again. My head is swirling and there are times when I can hardly believe it's true," he told reporters.

"We had to wear flak jackets during our helicopter transfer from the international zone to the Baghdad airport and I had to keep knocking on the body armour I was wearing to reassure myself this is all really happening.

"After this I'm going to disappear for a little while into a different kind of abyss, an abyss of love. I need some time to get reacquainted with my partner, Dan, my family, my community and freedom itself," he said.

It was the first time there was mention of Hunt as media outlets had refrained from referring to him during the activist's captivity, out of concern that the kidnappers would harm Loney because of his sexual orientation.

After Loney left the airport he spent time celebrating with friends in Toronto, but is expected soon to return to his hometown of Sault Ste. Marie, where his parents and other siblings await his arrival.

In the Sault, at morning mass at Precious Blood Cathedral, where the Loneys are parishioners, Loney was held up yesterday as a "disciple of peace" by Msgr. Bernard Burns, who devoted much of the service to reflecting on the family's ordeal.

"We are so pleased and so happy for the Loney family, who have been freed from the terrible ordeal that they've been going through for the past four months," he said.

Throughout the service Burns implored media to give the Loney family space to "reunite."

"James is not the type of person who talks about what he does. James is the type of person who does what he does. Because of that, I don't think he clearly relishes being in the spotlight," he said. "We pray that he will be given that time, given that space."

Other members of the congregation — many of whom do not know Loney personally — said they have been moved by the prospect of his homecoming.

"He's a special person. We need more of these people and we need to be thankful that they're there," said Clare Husky. "Even in yourself, you don't know if you could go do something like that," he said. "He's really a great example."

Husky's wife, Sharon, said seeing Loney's father attend mass each morning has made her feel close to the family. "You'd see the poor man here every day and you could see what he was going through," she said.

Amadeo Orlando, 83, said "everybody in the Sault has been praying" for Loney. "It really hit everybody here in the heart."

Loney's parents, Patrick and Claudette, did not attend the 9 a.m. service. Burns said their absence is rare. Instead, they spent the morning with their daughter, Kathleen, and her family.

Loney said yesterday that what everyone seems to want to know is what's the first thing he'll do enjoying his freedom?

"All I really want to do is to love and be loved by the people that I love," he said, but added, "The one specific thing might be to wash a sink full of dirty dishes."
 
"Just once, I'd like to read a headline that said a Christian group was boycotting to feed the hungry. Or marching to house the homeless."

I can only speak for my church, but we spend a lot of time and A LOT of money feeding the hungry and housing the homeless. We spend zero time discussing homosexuals. They're welcome at our church like anyone else. But beware! Jesus changes lives! The closer we get to Him, the more our own sinful nature is exposed... :scratchin
 


Disney Vacation Planning. Free. Done for You.
Our Authorized Disney Vacation Planners are here to provide personalized, expert advice, answer every question, and uncover the best discounts. Let Dreams Unlimited Travel take care of all the details, so you can sit back, relax, and enjoy a stress-free vacation.
Start Your Disney Vacation
Disney EarMarked Producer

New Posts







DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest DIS Tiktok DIS Twitter

Back
Top Bottom