Child's baseball vent!

[Aneille]

Thankfully, I live in a town with enough fields (7 or 8 for the different ages to use) and common sense that nobody starts that late unless perhaps it's the babe ruth kids (13-15).

Our t-ball (i.e. 4-5 year olds) plays once a week on Saturday mornings at 8am. They also practice once a week on a week night.

Maybe that is it. We have tons of fields too. We have something like 9 fields at our home field. The other side of town has a large number of fields too that they play their games at. We have 2 divisions in our town segregated by where you live. So the whole idea just seems absurd to me but if its 8pm or don't play, I would probably suck it up and play.

 

[Mickey's Minion]

Dawn I agree with you. But I can still hold the opinion that an 8 pm game is too late for a 7 year old for regular season games.

But in my area, U8 competitive do not have regular season games at 8 pm so I don't have to worry about it. Lucky me! So others in my area must feel the same way as I do. That going to bed at 11 pm two times a week may be too much for a 1st grader. A tournament game is an exception. The schedules are different due the nature of the game/tournament.

I know commitment all to well. We take our sports seriously. I think a 5:50 am game for hockey (which we have plenty of) are too much for my kids yet we still go to those games. Just like if she had an 8 pm game we still went to those too.(sometimes on the same day) You sign up, you go. She played 4 softball games this weekend. Wasn't fun since it was our vacation but she still went. When we agreed to play, we agreed to the tournaments.

And according to the OP this was not a super competitive team. He signed up. He didn't try-out. They just put is name on a list and drafted him. To me it sounds like an over-zealous coach, which is a whole other issue.

You cannot assume that just because you don't try out that it is not a competitive league.

My kids' football league did not have tryouts - you signed up in your assigned district. However, it was made very clear that it was a competitive league and that there may be times where your child does not play.

If you wanted a league where everybody got to play, then this team would not be for you and it would be better to go sign up at the Y for their rec league.

Skimming (and I emphasize skimming, so may be completely offbase) through the OP's rule book, it seems that this league also has geographical rules - you sign up for a team within your boundaries, you do not try out for teams.

 

[Aneille]

You cannot assume that just because you don't try out that it is not a competitive league.

My kids' football league did not have tryouts - you signed up in your assigned district. However, it was made very clear that it was a competitive league and that there may be times where your child does not play.

If you wanted a league where everybody got to play, then this team would not be for you and it would be better to go sign up at the Y for their rec league.

Skimming (and I emphasize skimming, so may be completely offbase) through the OP's rule book, it seems that this league also has geographical rules - you sign up for a team within your boundaries, you do not try out for teams.

Yes, I guess your right, just never heard of that before. In my area, all the town teams have competive teams but they include a try-out but still an emphasis on development at that age. And include geographically rules. You need to reside in the town or the league only allows so many out of town players on any given team. Although I thought someone earlier pointed out they do have rules about playing time during regular season games. Although the game in question was a tournament. Very confusing.

Before my kids ever try-out for a team, I speak to the current coach and ask questions about their coaching philosophies to make sure they go along with mine. No need paying a try-out fee, commiting your time and money and then find out it was never going to work out. Sometimes coaches say one thing and say another but thats just the risk you take.

 

[Mickey's Minion]

Yes, I guess your right, just never heard of that before. In my area, all the town teams have competive teams but they include a try-out but still an emphasis on development at that age. And include geographically rules. You need to reside in the town or the league only allows so many out of town players on any given team. Although I thought someone earlier pointed out they do have rules about playing time during regular season games. Although the game in question was a tournament. Very confusing.

Before my kids ever try-out for a team, I speak to the current coach and ask questions about their coaching philosophies to make sure they go along with mine. No need paying a try-out fee, commiting your time and money and then find out it was never going to work out. Sometimes coaches say one thing and say another but thats just the risk you take.

I posted the section of the by-laws where it stipulates the playing time, which is similar to Little League rules.

However, the game in question was not a regular season game nor a tournament game, but a practice game before the first tournament.

Everything my kids have ever played in, tournament games had different rules about play time and practices had no play time rules as it was....practice. Our coaches always used practice games to try different strategies, different combinations, different plays to formulate a game strategy for the upcoming tournament. Trying out different strategies during practice may mean that the same kids keep playing the same thing over and over again while the coach tweaks it. And the kids not involved in that particular play or strategy might be sitting on the bench for the practice.

 

[luvsJack]

Momof1princess- I'm glad to hear that Upwards Basketball was a great experience. It sounds like that is just the kind of experience that DS could use.

Anielle- It was a flier that DS brought home from school. They also did the t-ball that DS played last year, but it was a completely different experience. And I really liked that coach. DS had to go through a draft, but it was because his old t-ball coach was not going to coach at the time, although he did get talked into it later.

LuvsJack- The yelling that I've been offended by has been mean yelling. At one practice, I heard him yell at his son to keep his eyes on the "damn ball." Its been other things to other players, like, "That was a stupid choice. What's wrong with you? You better not do that again EVER." I can understand things like yelling at a kid to throw the ball because some of them have a tendency to hold on to the ball during games since they're not sure who to throw it to. But some of the yelling crosses the line- in my opinion- but maybe DS sees it differently.

Oh, yeah. If he is cussing when he yells and is putting them down (about choices), I would have a definite problem with that. I think I would definitely talk to the league officials.

summer or not, you dont have 7 year olds start a game at 8pm. Most 7 year olds are in bed by 8 or 9...not playing baseball.

Our little league doesnt even start any game (even the 11-12 year olds) that late. Most games start by 7 or so at the latest.

Our 7-8 year olds have games at 6 or 8, depending on their schedules. We have several fields but LOTS of teams. Most teams prefer the 8:00 time because its a bit cooler and the sun has gone down.

9-10 year olds play at 6 and the 11-12 year olds play at 8.

All of these 8:00 times are dependent on the game at 6 ending on time and that doesn't always happen. So sometimes the games don't start until 8:30 or 9. During city playoff tournaments some of the games are really late getting through. The only rule in city tournaments is that they cannot start after 10 PM.

Once they make all stars, all bets are off on time. DS came up to bat at midnight one night during an all star tournament (he was 10, we were 2 hours from home and I had to be at work at 5:30 am ). Its just part of the game and if you want to play, you suck it up and deal with it. All Star tournaments are played all over the state and they have to finish one tournament on time to get to the next one. Its a bit better for the 7 and 8 year olds than the older kids but they can still run pretty late.


BTW: I remembered that in Dixie Youth (so maybe the same in your league), the rules about playing changes in tournament play. They only have play either 3 outs in the field OR 1 at bat. They just change the AND to OR. But there is still a minimum playing rule. Dixie Youth and Little League take their baseball pretty serious too. But it can a bit MORE serious in certain areas. Texas is known for taking sports very seriously (I do NOT mean that as an insult, for athletic kids it can be a really good thing)

 

[Aneille]

I posted the section of the by-laws where it stipulates the playing time, which is similar to Little League rules.

However, the game in question was not a regular season game nor a tournament game, but a practice game before the first tournament.

Everything my kids have ever played in, tournament games had different rules about play time and practices had no play time rules as it was....practice. Our coaches always used practice games to try different strategies, different combinations, different plays to formulate a game strategy for the upcoming tournament. Trying out different strategies during practice may mean that the same kids keep playing the same thing over and over again while the coach tweaks it. And the kids not involved in that particular play or strategy might be sitting on the bench for the practice.

I bolded this part because I believe this is a sign of a bad coach for young children learning the game. It think it is fine for older children because once they understand the game better than can follow along, understand why the coach is make changes and also hopefully have the skill to duplicate decently if the need arises. But I don't know of any 7 year old that can do that. I am sure somewhere there are some but its not the norm that is for sure. Never mind in this situation this child just came out of Tee-ball.

If the coach wants certain players to practice game situations for the whole practice, the kids sitting on the bench should be occasionaly rotated in OR an assistant should be working with those kids on batting, fielding etc off on another part of the field for part of the time. Or a coach should be on the bench explaining things to them or going over signs...something, anything even occasionally. Just keep them interested in the game. Tell one kid to just watch the 2nd baseman and then have an assistant ask him questions about it.

Because when star player #10 can't make the game because of a family emergency its going to be really hard for 7 year old bench player #11 to fill in for him if he's never had a chance to try it in practice, even if its only an inning.

The coach is having his best players practice because even the best need to practice. How can he count on a weaker player to fill in when needed, if he's never even been tested in a practice situation?

 

[luvsJack]

I bolded this part because I believe this is a sign of a bad coach for young children learning the game. It think it is fine for older children because once they understand the game better than can follow along, understand why the coach is make changes and also hopefully have the skill to duplicate decently if the need arises. But I don't know of any 7 year old that can do that. I am sure somewhere there are some but its not the norm that is for sure. Never mind in this situation this child just came out of Tee-ball.

If the coach wants certain players to practice game situations for the whole practice, the kids sitting on the bench should be occasionaly rotated in OR an assistant should be working with those kids on batting, fielding etc off on another part of the field for part of the time. Or a coach should be on the bench explaining things to them or going over signs...something, anything even occasionally. Just keep them interested in the game. Tell one kid to just watch the 2nd baseman and then have an assistant ask him questions about it.

Because when star player #10 can't make the game because of a family emergency its going to be really hard for 7 year old bench player #11 to fill in for him if he's never had a chance to try it in practice, even if its only an inning.

The coach is having his best players practice because even the best need to practice. How can he count on a weaker player to fill in when needed, if he's never even been tested in a practice situation?

But, wasn't it a practice game? If that is the case, then they wouldn't have a place for another coach to take those kids to and sometimes watching other kids playing IS the teaching technique being used.

I don't think its the sign of a bad coach. Every kid is not going to play every position. There may be 2 or even 3 first basemen. If the play being practiced is involving first base then those kids need to be involved in the practice along with the first string other players--but not every kid who plays 3rd base.

 

[Aneille]

But, wasn't it a practice game? If that is the case, then they wouldn't have a place for another coach to take those kids to and sometimes watching other kids playing IS the teaching technique being used.

I don't think its the sign of a bad coach. Every kid is not going to play every position. There may be 2 or even 3 first basemen. If the play being practiced is involving first base then those kids need to be involved in the practice along with the first string other players--but not every kid who plays 3rd base.

Sorry this is long.

Seriously your 7 year old team right out of tee-ball has 2 or 3 first baseman and they don't play any other position? How many children are on the roster?

I think we are speaking of 2 different things...I think. One I am speaking strictly of young children U8 and even U10 to some extent. At 9 and 10 they are starting to get more focused and more mature and are starting to understand more of the game.

Also what a practice game is seems to mean something different to me than to you, but I am not sure.

If its a practice game where there is an umpire or a coach that is playing as an ump against another different team, I would call that a scrimmage.

With a paid umpire during a scrimmage, I would think most game rules would be applied with some changes probably for more position changes to try things out.

If its a coach as an ump, then its even more free form but again if its considered a scrimmage then game rules apply.

In both situations the scorecard maybe kept. But the score may or may not be offically recorded with the league. And although I think all kids should get a chance to play, if their rules says they don't have to, then they don't have to.

If its a game situational practice with just the 1 team then its just that; a practice. One that focus's on game situations.

And if its a game situtional drill targeted for 1st base and all the other 1st string players are playing plus the other 2 or 3 first baseman umm what are the other players doing? They are 7 years old? They are goofing off for a good portion of the drill. Maybe not running around but certaintly not focused on the the drill for the whole time.

And that 1 drill lasted an hour or more? They didn't change the drill to focus on the 2nd baseman at any time? or the 3rd baseman? See if they did that, then 1 kid wouldn't be sitting on the bench for an hour during practice. He may sit sometimes but not an hour.

And if the coach does want to focus on the 1st baseman for the whole hour, you wouldn't expect the coach to rotate the second string team players in for 15 minutes? It is a team sport, and the second string players are a part of team. And when the first string players aren't there for whatever reason that second string player needs to peform too. Line them up, first string players in front, second string in back and make 10 plays and then switch or some other varient to get them all playing.

Children will never improve game play unless they play in games or game situations and at 7 they are all still learning the game situations. He can't learn simply by observing, it simply is not the same. Its easy to say this is what he should have done but doing it is a whole different matter.

I agree that watching a situational drill can be used as a teaching method but I don't think it works well for young children. It works reasonably well for adults and older children that have the necessary maturity to follow along, have the fielding skills and throwing skills etc, but I can't imagine this working well for 7 year olds. They don't have all the skills neccessary. They may have some but not all. They especially lack maturity and focus. So I don't think watching the drill isn't the best teaching method for anyone but especially not young children.

 

[DawnCt1]

Once they make all stars, all bets are off on time. DS came up to bat at midnight one night during an all star tournament (he was 10, we were 2 hours from home and I had to be at work at 5:30 am ). Its just part of the game and if you want to play, you suck it up and deal with it. All Star tournaments are played all over the state and they have to finish one tournament on time to get to the next one. Its a bit better for the 7 and 8 year olds than the older kids but they can still run pretty late.


)

That is true and usually the best players play....but not always. I remember one particular year when there were 4 or 5 coaches. They got together and it was "you pick my kids and I will pick yours". Out of 11 kids on the team, 8 were coaches kids and three others. The three others were rotated in....to left field. We lost the first game and were about to lose the second and heading towards elimination at light speed. The three other parents, me included spoke up and pointed out that the All Star games were not "coach appreciation week", nor did they exist to let their kids play, but to win. The coach wasn't very happy. The other kids who were better players were then rotated in more appropriately and the team survived a couple of games longer. Interestingly enough, very few of those all star players ever made it to JV or Varsity. The high school coach was more discerning.

 

[luvsJack]

Sorry this is long.

Seriously your 7 year old team right out of tee-ball has 2 or 3 first baseman and they don't play any other position? How many children are on the roster?

I think we are speaking of 2 different things...I think. One I am speaking strictly of young children U8 and even U10 to some extent. At 9 and 10 they are starting to get more focused and more mature and are starting to understand more of the game.

Also what a practice game is seems to mean something different to me than to you, but I am not sure.

If its a practice game where there is an umpire or a coach that is playing as an ump against another different team, I would call that a scrimmage.

With a paid umpire during a scrimmage, I would think most game rules would be applied with some changes probably for more position changes to try things out.

If its a coach as an ump, then its even more free form but again if its considered a scrimmage then game rules apply.

In both situations the scorecard maybe kept. But the score may or may not be offically recorded with the league. And although I think all kids should get a chance to play, if their rules says they don't have to, then they don't have to.

If its a game situational practice with just the 1 team then its just that; a practice. One that focus's on game situations.

And if its a game situtional drill targeted for 1st base and all the other 1st string players are playing plus the other 2 or 3 first baseman umm what are the other players doing? They are 7 years old? They are goofing off for a good portion of the drill. Maybe not running around but certaintly not focused on the the drill for the whole time.

And that 1 drill lasted an hour or more? They didn't change the drill to focus on the 2nd baseman at any time? or the 3rd baseman? See if they did that, then 1 kid wouldn't be sitting on the bench for an hour during practice. He may sit sometimes but not an hour.

And if the coach does want to focus on the 1st baseman for the whole hour, you wouldn't expect the coach to rotate the second string team players in for 15 minutes? It is a team sport, and the second string players are a part of team. And when the first string players aren't there for whatever reason that second string player needs to peform too. Line them up, first string players in front, second string in back and make 10 plays and then switch or some other varient to get them all playing.

Children will never improve game play unless they play in games or game situations and at 7 they are all still learning the game situations. He can't learn simply by observing, it simply is not the same. Its easy to say this is what he should have done but doing it is a whole different matter.

I agree that watching a situational drill can be used as a teaching method but I don't think it works well for young children. It works reasonably well for adults and older children that have the necessary maturity to follow along, have the fielding skills and throwing skills etc, but I can't imagine this working well for 7 year olds. They don't have all the skills neccessary. They may have some but not all. They especially lack maturity and focus. So I don't think watching the drill isn't the best teaching method for anyone but especially not young children.

Well, I haven't had a 7 year old in some time so I don't remember how many were on the roster; but I do remember that they had positions and they learned those positions. In fact, in their last year of t-ball they started kind of favoring certain positions.

And yes, at 7, there were maybe 2, maybe 3 kids that would be, for instance, first basemen. That's not to say that those first basemen couldn't play another position, but everyone didn't play first base. if the coach was teaching a play that included, say, the first baseman and the short stop then for the time they worked on it he would be focused on the players that played first base and short stop.

I have no clue whether that is what the OP's son's coach was doing, I was just commenting that focusing on one set of players is not bad coaching as you said. In every "practice game" or scrimmage (not sure about anywhere else, but here the two terms mean the same thing) we had coaches that would spend some time teaching their players how they should field the ball in a certain situation. At this age, many times the two coaches would agree that the game was strictly for practice and coaching and giving the kids a game type situation with another team involved.

A whole hour working on one play would be a bit much and I really don't think that is what happened. BUT if the coach was trying to practice the first string players in a game situation, it would be possible for a kid to not play in a practice or scrimmage game.




And U10 focus on one position? Our U10 went undefeated through the season and playoffs; ds then went to all stars with the same coach and they were again undefeated and won the state championship. DS pitched and played center field the whole season; he stopped many a home run from going over the fence. Yes, kids on a U10 team were hitting the ball over the fence, pitching no hitters and throwing runners out at home from center field. So, yes they most definitely played one position.

 

[Aneille]

And U10 focus on one position? Our U10 went undefeated through the season and playoffs; ds then went to all stars with the same coach and they were again undefeated and won the state championship. DS pitched and played center field the whole season; he stopped many a home run from going over the fence. Yes, kids on a U10 team were hitting the ball over the fence, pitching no hitters and throwing runners out at home from center field. So, yes they most definitely played one position.

I am not sure why you are LMAO so much. If you re-read my post you will notice I said at U10 to some extent. I even went on to say that they are more mature and understand the game more nevermind have a huge gross/fine motor and growth factor involved.

At 9-10 years old (in any sport) children start to specialize more and gravitate to certain positions. They begin to drop sports to concentrate even more on their favorites or ones they excel at. It is a sign of their growing maturity that this happens.

I think the difference in our opinion stems from the fact that you are having trouble remembering how young 7 years old really is.

A 10 year old still playing summer U10 ball is entering 5th or 6th grade(in MA anyway) while we were orginally discussing a 7 year old child that (in MA) would be entering 1st or 2nd grade. That is an incredible amount of maturity that happens thru 4th and 5th grade that is not present in a 1st or 2nd grader.

Because of the maturity difference, things that work for 10 year olds do not work for 7 year olds. A good coach understands this.

We will have to agree to disagree as to whether watching someone else go through drills significantly helps a player to be able to perform the same action in a real game. It is my belief they need to do it as well and by only allowing some the chance to do it, they are only significantly improving the chosen players. This creates an even larger skill gap between the 1st string and 2nd string players.

Just because I watch a lot of baseball drills and can throw and catch a ball doesn't mean that I turn a double play at 2nd base with a runner sliding into my legs.

I don't disagree that 3rd basemans do not need to be involved in a 1st baseman drill or a pitcher with an outfielder if they don't also play outfield. There is certaintly a place for positional work with only the players that play that position. But this wasn't the case.

And so you understand my children play their chosen sport at a very competive level. One that if they can keep playing at the same level will have them playing regularly against some of the best youth teams in the nation. Or for that matter there own team will be ranked nationally. So I do understand the commitment, the work these kids put into their sport and specialization that happens as they mature. I also understand the desire to win, even at young ages.

 

[sparklynails23]

Someone should create a youtube type website with videos of crazy coaches. These nutcases need to see their behavior through the eyes of others.