child over 2 in lap

[disneymom3]

bjakmom--I had read a reader's digest article several years ago about a crash landing and that is what they had the parents do with their lap children. I was soooo appalled by that I swore my children--even though I didn't have any then--would always have their own seat. The article was about a guy who kept going back in and pulling people out and one of the people he found was a baby who was way far away from where her mom had been holding her. I have never mentioned that article on these kinds of threads because I was never totally sure it was true, but your post just convinced me that it clearly was.

 

[lovesdumbo]

NotUrsula,
Yes you are right that was an infant fare-sorry for the confusion. I just wanted to make sure those seeking a ticket for under 2's check with a phone call as I was under the impression that all airlines would give you what Justhat found from SW that the internet fare was the same (sometimes cheaper) than the infant fare. I was happily surprised with Delta's infant fare.

 

[Pinnie]

Buy the child a ticket.

My neighbor is a gate agent for SWA and they are REQURIED to ask any the parent of any lap child without a ticket, (that obviously isn't an infant,) for proof of age. If you don't produce it by the time that plane's door is shut, you either buy that child a ticket at the "walk up" price or you don't get on the plane.

pin

 

[bjakmom]

I didn't post my story to scare people about flying - I love to fly and still fly (with my kids) regularly - only to let them know what most of us never really think about (I know I hadn't all the years that I was lap carrying my older girls!). While we were being instructed to place DS on the floor, we were begging to be able to place him in his baby bjorn type carrier so we could hold onto him - that is absolutely forbidden because the force of the parent's body could easily crush the baby with any impact. Most of us never consider these scenarios until we're faced with them - and most of us will never be faced with them - neither will most of us be involved in a serious car accident - but I never pull out of the driveway until everyone is in a seat belt and children are in safety seats. You can never keep your kids safe from every catastrophe, but I know that, for me, I would need to know that I did everything possible that I knew to do to insure their safety - they completely depend upon us to make these decisions for them - and I take that very seriously!

I believe in doing all you can to be safe - then let go, take the risk you cannot control, and have fun!! Stepping down off my soap box! - I really hope you all find a solution for this that everyone is comfortable with!

 

[tw1nsmom]

Well, at this point I don't see that there is anything else you can do. They will either come to their senses and buy the seat in advance or they will be forced to either miss the flight or buy a full price ticket. I would be completely shocked if SWA let the child on as a lap baby. I just don't think it's going to happen. If I were you I would just make sure that I checked in seperately from them so that when they get in trouble I wouldn't be denied boarding. Good luck!

 

[4greatboys]

Justhat--sorry your sil is so difficult I would make it clear to them that many people are asked to see their childs ticket and/or birth certificate and that if that is the case they will have to buy a ticket or not go and that your family WILL be boarding the plane for your vacation as planned. You also mentioned that you had a small baby that didnt require a ticket purchase but you purchased one anyway. Do you think if a problem arises that she will ask you to have your child board as the lap baby and try to use your childs ticket for her child?? She sounds like the type that wouldnt mind using this option.

 

[Vavasmon]

The few times I have flown southwest (out of BWI) to various destinations, they checked all chikdren under two who could stand. The also asked each child their name and age as they boarded.

I have flown way too many flights where children have had near misses beacuse they were being held. We had a very rough landing into ORD (sudden cross wind) where the jet did a sudden movement. An infant fell from his father's arms and was knocked unconcious. I don't understand why people would never consider holding their child in car travelling 25 mph but think nothing of holding the same child in a plane going several hundred mph.

My DD has always had her own seat when she flew. Just like the car, no one plans on having an accident or near miss in an airplane.

 

[tjmw2727]

Your in a tough situtation, I feel for you. At this point I would consider removing myself from the situation as much as you can. Avoid checking in together, make it clear that the seat you purchased is for your child and try and have a happy start to your vacation. Hopefully you have separate bookings and are not included in the same travel party. This way if they are denied boarding it won't affect your boarding. If you are in the same travel party perhaps consider calling to separate your immediately family from the rest of the party flying.

Southwest will ask for proof of age for this child and I doubt she will be flying for free. How it will be handled - who knows but good luck to you and your family.

I hope things go well for you and you have a wonderful vacation.


TJ

 

[justhat]

My family will be flying out of another airport as we don't live near each other, which I'm guessing is a good thing since I would be very unhappy if my trip were delayed because they refuse to buy a ticket. We're still hoping they'll change their mind, if not we'll be looking into the price to see if it drops enough that we can buy her the ticket. Thanks for all the advice/stories, they were very helpful in building up our case.

 

[NotUrsula]

FYI regarding emergency landing procedures. That rule about putting the baby on the floor has very little to do with the safety of the child; it exists because the FAA has ruled that the predominant safety objective in a crash is to reduce the overall likelihood of serious injury to the entire planeload of passengers.

The ugly truth is, no one in the safety industry really expects a lap baby to live through any kind of impact. As someone has already noted, crash tests show that a child being held in arms during an impact will suffer one of two fates: it will go airborne, or it will serve as a human airbag for the restraining adult. Ugly as it is, the reason for putting a baby on the floor is to prevent that baby from becoming a missile. A 15-lb. baby moving through the air at upwards of 80 mph would hit with a force of well over 150 lbs. If the child struck another passenger in the head, it is almost a sure bet that BOTH would be killed instantly. The structural barriers underneath the seats serve to dampen the momentum and prevent the child from moving quickly, thus lessening the risk of serious injury to other passengers.

Now then, before someone asks how the FAA can be that callous wth a child's safety, let me explain the reason why the FAA has decided against requiring the purchase of a seat/use of a carseat for all infants: Cars. The reason is the relative likelihood of a car being involved in a crash, vs. the likelihood of a plane experiencing either serious turbulence &/or an emergency landing. Travelling by automobile is statistically much more dangerous than travelling by air. The reasoning is that the family would probably drive rather than fly if they had to buy that extra ticket, thus putting the child at much greater risk of injury, even though the carseat would be used in the car.

I haven't been in an emergency landing, but I've been on two flights where lap babies were injured for other reasons. One was a situation where a small plane crossed the runway as we taxied out, forcing the pilot to hit the brakes hard. In that instance, several people slammed their heads into the seats in front of them, causing quite a few bloody noses and bruises when they collided with the upright tray tables. The baby hit the back of her head and had to be taken to a hospital. In the other instance, the situation was a sudden drop in altitude; I don't remember why, but the plane dropped about 200 feet very suddenly, and a lap baby on that plane slammed straight up into the bottom of the overhead bin. The paramedics were waiting at the gate when we arrived, but I'm sure that the time it took us to land was the longest hour of those parents' lives.

 

[4greatboys]

I just wanted to mention for those parents who dont want to buy a seat for a child under 2 that if your flight is not full you can put the baby in a carseat on the flight. Im not advocating this but in the case where a family feels they cannot afford a ticket for the child atleast the baby would be in a carseat on the flight. I would try to pick a flight thats not a popular time.

 

[NotUrsula]

That "use an open seat at no charge" option used to work pretty well, but in the last 18 months or so the opportunity to do that has become much more scarce on US domestic flights, especially on SWA, which fills nearly every flight to capacity. However, I agree that if you really can't swing the extra-seat cost for an under-2, bringing your carseat to the gate anyway can be worth the effort.

As to using a carseat for the child the OP was asking about, that may not be appropriate if she is really so big for her age. A carseat on the aircraft is only appropriate for a child who weighs less than 40 lbs.

 

[justhat]

As of Thanksgiving (the last time we saw her), she was 32 lbs and 36 inches. I'm guessing she's a little bigger now, though probably not that much since it's only been 3 months. In another 4 months I still think she'd be under 40 lbs. I think even if she ends up getting a seat (which I'm assuming at this point that she'll have to since I don't think they'll be sneaking her own according to other's experiences) that they won't be bringing her car seat. They said they'll request one from the town car, hopefully they'll bring it with them since if they forget or run out she won't have one at all. We said to at least bring the car seat and check it if they're not getting her a seat but they don't want to have the extra baggage. I'm just glad we're not flying with them since they seem to have a lot of complaints and we haven't even left yet!

 

[NHAnn]

I was just browsing through these types of threads as we are planning a January trip which wll include 2 grandchildren, 18 months and 3 y/o. (BTW - we HAVE purchased seats for both, just trying to decide on bringing a carseat or not for the 3 yr old's seat).I have never flown with with my own kids when they were under 4 or 5...so DIL and I are doing lots of planning/discussing.

Anyway....I was just curious as to how this situation turned out!!
justhat~ what ended up happening??

 

[mattmommy]

My son was four months old the first time we flew and we didn't buy him a ticket. Ditto for when he was 6 months old. After that he was too antsy to sit for the 2 1/2 hour flight. They used to have the 1/2 price seats, but nobody does that anymore. We were the last in our family to be able to use that. When they're that small, you can bring in the carseat and they get strapped in good and tight. Tell your relative to suck it up and buy the seat for safety. I hope if she gets stuck buying the ticket, you're far away in case she makes a scene. And if she backs out, you keep on going. Sorry you have such a hassle from relatives.

 

[poohkinandpiglet]

Last week on a Continental flight to Orlando, I saw a family with a three year "lap child" sleeping on in the mom's lap. The flight attendant made them put her in a seat for take off and landing.

IMO, over two years is too big to be considered a lap child.

 

[jerrb]

SWA does check birth certificates on lap children (unless they are obviously infants)!

Like the other posters, I would just advise buying her a seat now. If you don't have one the day of the flight, they will try to get you one, but it will be at a full child's fare AND may not even be available.

Best of luck.

 

[madge]

I'm pretty sure SWA asks for proof of age...they did when our DD was a lap baby, and I've seen them do it plenty of times on that show, Airline.

 

[J/T Gramdma]

justhat- it is now after your trip and please tell us whether your sil bought the ticket or was allowed to go on as a lap child?

 

[justhat]

Yes, we're back from our trip and my SIL did end up buying her daughter a seat. After they bought their tickets at $155 each roundtrip, the fare went down to $80 each roundtrip, so they rebooked and had a credit so they used it to buy my niece a seat. Really, at $80, I could have afforded to get it for her myself if they hadn't, so she was getting a seat either way. They checked her carseat since they saw no need to bring it on (which I guess at ~36 pounds is fine), but then never used to to/from the airport anyway. They said she sat in the plane seat just fine so I'm guessing that your 3yo will be fine in the seat, NHAnn.

Also, they flew up to NJ 2 weeks later for our wedding and booked those flights through a travel agent, who made them get a seat for my niece. Her then 9 month old brother flew as a lap baby though (he didn't come to Disney World with us so he wasn't an issue). Since it was my SILs family, my MIL, FIL, BIL, and other SIL, they said there were plenty of them to take turns holding him so no need for a seat. They checked both car seats then and did use them in the cars this time. It's amazing that they buy Britax carseats for their safety, but then skimp on safety in so many other ways. Oh well, there's no point in forcing my views on others.

We got my then 3 month old daughter a seat, and got her one on the 3 flights she's taken since then, but everyone's entitled to do what they want. Oh yeah, after having her seat on their once, we will always have it, it was so nice having a place to put her rather than holding her the whole flight, so i could use my tray for my pretzels and water. Also, on every flight she's taken we've gotten a half price ticket for her (on US Airways and Continental). (Except for Independence Air since the ticket was only $91 rt anyway.) Another bonus was that I was allowed bags and carryons for my daughter since she paid for a seat. This was great so that I could bring my electric breastpump to my mom's house, plus her diaper bag, and a large bag of photos. Not that I wanted to carry all that, plus Madison and her carseat, but I had to and it was nice to be able to.