Charge for FP? Please say it aint so!

[cbl1]

Sounds to me like (as with the club level perks) that payment may be in the form of extra passes ahead of time or more days ahead to book. I think the 3 free will stand as selling those would not be very good PR and would most likely sour some people who have been coming for years. I mean really the 3 we get now is a watering down of the amount of fastpasses that could be accumulated daily knowing what you were doing in the old method. Where I could have in the past gotten 6 fastpasses in a day - many times now in busy season there isn't much else to get after your first 3. So effectively they have limited free to about 3 - leaving them open to be able to sell additional in the future.

 

[mrcase77]

Sounds to me like (as with the club level perks) that payment may be in the form of extra passes ahead of time or more days ahead to book. I think the 3 free will stand as selling those would not be very good PR and would most likely sour some people who have been coming for years. I mean really the 3 we get now is a watering down of the amount of fastpasses that could be accumulated daily knowing what you were doing in the old method. Where I could have in the past gotten 6 fastpasses in a day - many times now in busy season there isn't much else to get after your first 3. So effectively they have limited free to about 3 - leaving them open to be able to sell additional in the future.

They added club level only and had 30 minute waits for fast passes this spring even on the crappiest of rides per Facebook. How do they have enough fast passes to give out even more when they’ve only added, like, 3 rides? They’re either going to have to reduce the free ones (to start selling them) or add more high capacity rides, correct? Or they’re going to make their fast passes worthless.

 

[cbl1]

really - more rides is the best way for everyone - high capacity rides.

 

[mrcase77]

really - more rides is the best way for everyone - high capacity rides.

Agreed

 

[cbl1]

except for the fact some of the new rides are drawing in some record crowds (good for Disney). Long term these additional lands and rides should help spread the crowds and bring down lines overall.

I mean look at epcot - a few years ago and everyone is fighting over 3 rides (Soarin', Test Track, Space).

In a few years, yes more people visiting, but fastpasses spread among those 3 plus Ratatouille, Guardians, and Frozen alone (technically I guess you did have Maelstrom before). Really should be almost doubling amount of fastpasses in a day from a few years back. Add in a Black Panther ride in the Wonders of Life and your talking some major change.

If Epcot could just get another country in the Outpost spot - would seem pretty complete (supposedly Brazil going to go between Italy and Germany). Spain was also supposed to happen but was supposedly shelved ... they need another (Puerto Rico was talked about as well).

 

[Jimmy Mouse]

except for the fact some of the new rides are drawing in some record crowds (good for Disney). Long term these additional lands and rides should help spread the crowds and bring down lines overall.

I mean look at epcot - a few years ago and everyone is fighting over 3 rides (Soarin', Test Track, Space).

In a few years, yes more people visiting, but fastpasses spread among those 3 plus Ratatouille, Guardians, and Frozen alone (technically I guess you did have Maelstrom before). Really should be almost doubling amount of fastpasses in a day from a few years back. Add in a Black Panther ride in the Wonders of Life and your talking some major change.

If Epcot could just get another country in the Outpost spot - would seem pretty complete (supposedly Brazil going to go between Italy and Germany). Spain was also supposed to happen but was supposedly shelved ... they need another (Puerto Rico was talked about as well).

If they would stop shutting down rides before new ones are open it would also spread the crowd. Look at DHS. If they waited to close The Great Movie Ride until at least Toy Story Land was open it would help with the crowds. That ride was very high capacity. They could have built the show building for Guardians and left Ellen's open longer at Epcot. They closed the boat ride in AK years ago and Stitch is only open when MK is the most crowded. Once all the new attractions are open it should spread everyone out and help with wait times.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I'm not really sure how disney does this and actually gets away with it. I understand its "industry standard", but lines are already long, if people don't purchase them, then the word of mouth marketing for is going to be horrible. "Don't waste your time at disney world, the lines for everything are 3 hours long."

 

[tlmadden73]

Disney, on the other hand, promised every single person who walks through the gate their 3 fast passes minimum (now many how many people walk through that gate and no matter how few people they have on staff or how few rides they have up and running). That gives them poor control over how many fast passes are out there. Then to add insult to injury, they started selling even more of them. If they're having 30 minute wait times, it would appear that system is sort of on the brink of collapsing under its own weight.
It looks to me like Disney has painted themselves into a corner and they can't change it without people throwing a massive hissy fit now. The unfortunate truth is that if everyone has too many fast passes, then nobody really has a fast pass...and then gridlock.

It may not collapse under its own weight, but may just need them to market it differently.

If you think about it -- the more people with fast passes -- the longer the standby lines will be. So waiting in a 20-minute Fast Pass line STILL beats waiting in a 90+ minute line. That's still "relatively" fast.

Plus .. the longer the standby and the free FP lines are --- the easier they CAN sell alternative ways to skip the lines --- with these morning and evening events or special tours, etc.

 

[tjkraz]

They added club level only and had 30 minute waits for fast passes this spring even on the crappiest of rides per Facebook. How do they have enough fast passes to give out even more when they’ve only added, like, 3 rides? They’re either going to have to reduce the free ones (to start selling them) or add more high capacity rides, correct? Or they’re going to make their fast passes worthless.

Not sure what you’re reading on facebook but the Club level purchase option is a drop in the bucket. The four WDW parks draw a combined average of 140,000+ guests per day. With 3 FPs available to every visitor, that’s more than 400K FastPasses issued daily. Giving the occupants of a couple hundred club level rooms the option to purchase more does not radically alter the landscape.

 

[Krandor]

Disney, on the other hand, promised every single person who walks through the gate their 3 fast passes minimum (now many how many people walk through that gate and no matter how few people they have on staff or how few rides they have up and running). That gives them poor control over how many fast passes are out there. Then to add insult to injury, they started selling even more of them. If they're having 30 minute wait times, it would appear that system is sort of on the brink of collapsing under its own weight.

I'm not an MBA, but I am a Software Engineer. I understand throughput. Universal gave themselves more of a relief valve by doing it the way they've done it. It looks to me like Disney has painted themselves into a corner and they can't change it without people throwing a massive hissy fit now. The unfortunate truth is that if everyone has too many fast passes, then nobody really has a fast pass...and then gridlock. And if nobody can ride the rides....well...there's another park across town that has rides people can actually ride. That's a problem if you're Disney eventually. Or at least you would think.

Yes and no. Disney controls things at the individual ride. They know they have x number of FPs for 7DMT from 1:30-2:30 and x number for 1:45-2:45 etc. With the universal system they have no way to know how many people will show up for an express pay on a given ride at a given time. If everybody at universal goes to the same ride to express pass it they may not have capacity. In some ways it is worse on planning. You have to limit total express passes because you cannot limit on a ride by ride or hour by hour basis.

 

[Krandor]

They added club level only and had 30 minute waits for fast passes this spring even on the crappiest of rides per Facebook. How do they have enough fast passes to give out even more when they’ve only added, like, 3 rides? They’re either going to have to reduce the free ones (to start selling them) or add more high capacity rides, correct? Or they’re going to make their fast passes worthless.

or you reduce the number of FPs you give out per time period. Of course then you may have some guests they can't book FPs or no tier 1 FPs and you have to deal with those complaints.

 

[Princess_Lisa]

My understanding is they do sell fastpasses to individuals who didn't stay in those 3 hotels until they run out of fastpasses they have enough throughput to provide, and then they stop selling them. (which is why their passpasses work as expected and Disney's sometimes don't). Because they only made promises to the people staying in those 3 hotels, they can control how many of those fastpasses they have in the park on any given day.

Disney, on the other hand, promised every single person who walks through the gate their 3 fast passes minimum (now many how many people walk through that gate and no matter how few people they have on staff or how few rides they have up and running). That gives them poor control over how many fast passes are out there. Then to add insult to injury, they started selling even more of them. If they're having 30 minute wait times, it would appear that system is sort of on the brink of collapsing under its own weight.

I'm not an MBA, but I am a Software Engineer. I understand throughput. Universal gave themselves more of a relief valve by doing it the way they've done it. It looks to me like Disney has painted themselves into a corner and they can't change it without people throwing a massive hissy fit now. The unfortunate truth is that if everyone has too many fast passes, then nobody really has a fast pass...and then gridlock. And if nobody can ride the rides....well...there's another park across town that has rides people can actually ride. That's a problem if you're Disney eventually. Or at least you would think.

There aren't unlimited FastPasses at Disney. While every person can theoretically make 3, they are still limited by how many timeslots are released for each ride. That is why it appears Slinky Dog was sold out 61 days out from TSL opening day and people with short stays may not be able to get FoP FPs. This gives Disney better control than Universal because they can set limits on a per hour (they break the slots down even further than that) per ride basis.

For example, lets say FoP can handle 1,500 riders per hour (25 per minute). Knowing this, Disney lets say releases 1,000 FPs per hour for FoP. Assuming they don't all show up at the exact same time in that window, the FP line should be manageable and they can get 500 standby riders through also. Once those 1,000 FPs are reserved noone else can reserve one during that hour block (this doesn't account for Anytime FPs, but their effect is typically minimal).

Under Universal's system, they might say decide they can sell 20,000 ExpressPasses per day. But, what happens if all those people show up at the same ride at the same time? Disney only has to worry about 1,000 people (in my theoretical example) showing up at FoP en masse with FPs. Universal could potentially have 20,000 (again in my theoretical example) show up all at once. Now, this is extremelly unlikely, but it is still an outside possibility/worst case scenario. The FP line at Disney (assuming a ride is operating at full capacity and there aren't a large number of Anytime FPs floating around due to multiple ride failures) should never be more than 60 minutes. In fact, if they stagger the FP slots by 10-15 minutes, they can spread everyone out even further insuring they will not have even 1,000 people show up all at once.

 

[manning]

Just a rumor. Maybe she IS a bus driver. There's been no news of charging for them. But it would not surpise me if they eventually did.

Beep beep

 

[mrcase77]

It just makes me think they would either need to just sort of blow up the current fast pass system and start over with a new scheme or they need to leave it alone until that happens (the parks even out)

Not sure what you’re reading on facebook but the Club level purchase option is a drop in the bucket. The four WDW parks draw a combined average of 140,000+ guests per day. With 3 FPs available to every visitor, that’s more than 400K FastPasses issued daily. Giving the occupants of a couple hundred club level rooms the option to purchase more does not radically alter the landscape.

What I read on Facebook trip reports and kinda think I heard on podcasts is that they had 30 minute waits for their “fast pass” lines.

 

[tjkraz]

What I read on Facebook trip reports and kinda think I heard on podcasts is that they had 30 minute waits for their “fast pass” lines.

Waits of that duration aren't unheard-of. Despite the hour long FastPass return windows, a high number of returnees can always converge on the attraction at any given time. (e.g. if they distribute 500 FPs for 1:10 to 2:20, there's nothing to prevent 400 of those guests from trying to redeem their pass in the first 5 minutes.)

But 30 minute waits aren't the norm, and the addition of the Club level FP add-on wasn't enough to dramatically alter the entire FastPass landscape.

 

[jade1]

If I go to US I just show up, I may have to wait a little (dining) but I still get to do everything I want to do, not "most of what I want".

You don't get to do everything you want, at US you do.

I agree with this. And we often indeed do a US/IOA day-it's great. (I'm also in the camp like you, of WDW giving Deluxe FOTL like US does.)

But it's still not WDW. There is no CRT, C Grill, BOG, FoP, 7DMT or Navi River there.

I mean I can go to Valley Fair and do everything as well, never do though.

We usually schedule day of FP+ as well. Occasionally FoP and 7DMT at 60 day stays.

But heck I'm going to WDW Sunday and will get "everything I want" done. Haven't check one FP+. In fairness CRT is at the bottom of our list, as is BOG until they bump up the food quality.

Did FoP standby with a drink last week at 8:45 PM (9:30 closing), it said 105 minutes and we were off by 9:30. Prob try that again next week, great ride.

 

[AtlantaDisneyDreamer]

Waits of that duration aren't unheard-of. Despite the hour long FastPass return windows, a high number of returnees can always converge on the attraction at any given time. (e.g. if they distribute 500 FPs for 1:10 to 2:20, there's nothing to prevent 400 of those guests from trying to redeem their pass in the first 5 minutes.)

But 30 minute waits aren't the norm, and the addition of the Club level FP add-on wasn't enough to dramatically alter the entire FastPass landscape.

I think some of the FP 30 minutes waits were due to so many rides breaking down. Disney does have control over fastpass arrival times in general, but when rides break down and everyone with a fastpass for that timeframe gets a “multiple experiences” fastpass, then it can really throw the whole system off.

In February, when Splash, SDMT, Space, and BTMRR were breaking down and staying down, then lines for the ones that weren’t down really backed up.

Easter fastpass lines were long, too, and that could have been due to ride break downs, but it makes me wonder if they issue more fastpasses on days when crowds are heavy.

I also heard quite a few people saying how they complained about waits, buses, guest service, hotels, etc. and were rewarded with anytime fastpasses. Disney seems to give out a lot of fastpasses to mollify guests, which can result in longer fastpass lines.

 

[OSUZorba]

Why WOULDN"T they? Disney is the only major theme park company that I know of that doesn't currently upcharge for an option to bypass lines.

They also charge about 3x what discount tickets to Six Flags or Cedar Fair cost, and about 10x for season passes.

 

[tlmadden73]

I think some of the FP 30 minutes waits were due to so many rides breaking down. Disney does have control over fastpass arrival times in general, but when rides break down and everyone with a fastpass for that timeframe gets a “multiple experiences” fastpass, then it can really throw the whole system off.

In February, when Splash, SDMT, Space, and BTMRR were breaking down and staying down, then lines for the ones that weren’t down really backed up.

Easter fastpass lines were long, too, and that could have been due to ride break downs, but it makes me wonder if they issue more fastpasses on days when crowds are heavy.

I also heard quite a few people saying how they complained about waits, buses, guest service, hotels, etc. and were rewarded with anytime fastpasses. Disney seems to give out a lot of fastpasses to mollify guests, which can result in longer fastpass lines.

I think another issue with Fast Pass lines is there is no way for Disney to truly control how many people show up at one time.
Say they give 100 Fast Passes out from 10:00 - 11:00 am for Buzz. Then say they give up 100 more for 10:10 - 11:10, then 100 more for 10:20 - 11:20, then 100 more for 10:30 - 11:30.

What if, for whatever reason, a majority of the people who have Fast Passes for that window show up exactly at 10:30? That's 400 people (in my example) that show up for that FP line at once.
Normally, that doesn't happen and they are spread out naturally, but I am sure there are spikes like this where a lot of people hit the line at the exact same time.

 

[Krandor]

They also charge about 3x what discount tickets to Six Flags or Cedar Fair cost, and about 10x for season passes.

I am a season ticket holder for six flags and I'll just say sometimes you get what you pay for.