Changing careers ~ Anyone go back to Law School?

[DMickey28]

I posted on the thread last night about changing careers to go back to school to get my Masters In Ed.

Last night, having one of those heart to hearts with DFiance he revealed his aprehension about me being a teacher. He knows I would love it and would be good, but he is afraid that I would get bored doing it. He says I am way too analytical, and that teaching would not give me enough room to research, control and stuff. I tend to agree and have thought for many years that I would be a good Lawyer, Corporate Law of some sort. I have no desire to be a prosecutor. The idea of Law School and the money involved is very daunting and what has pushed me away. Also the fear of the hours. I do not want to work in a job that requires me to work 60-80 hours a day. I have no problem putting in the time, and when I am at work I give 150% (aside from this silly job where I am here!!), however I don't want to bring it home with me late every night... I want a family life as well. I suppose the key to that is finding the right company with the right culture to fit my needs...

So anyone done this? Or just advice on Law School in general? Types of Lawyers and jobs out there?

I have a lot of experience in Insurance and think may Insurance Law/Freud would be good...

Any thoughts and ideas would be much apprecited!!!

 

[DMickey28]

Any lawyers out there?

 

[missypie]

I went to law school after teaching for 2 years. I didn't love the kids enough...in teaching you sure don't get fame or fortune, so your rewards have to come from working with the kids. As it turns out, I don't love all kids...just my own!

I had always been "good at school" and I did well in law school and had 4 job offers. I was so naive...I only knew there were criminal lawyers, personal injury lawyers and divorce lawyers. I had no idea that there were people who do what I do for a living.

I'm a real estate lawyer in a large law firm. It took me a bit longer than average to make partner because I had three kids and took three 4 month maternity leaves, but I eventually made it. I have a terrific job, am "my own boss" (answering only to my clients), make more money than I ever thought I would, and for the most part, work very normal hours.

There are so many things you can do with a law degree...law firm, company, federal or state governmental agency, etc. You should go for it!

 

[Princess Dot]

Hey that was my thread you were talking about!

Although I am not sure that I want to keep being a lawyer at this point, I would not discourage anyone from going to law school. The whole reason I went to lawschool was that I felt I wanted to do something "more" than being a nurse. Now, I also really enjoy nursing but being a lawyer is great too just for many different reasons.

First the down side of the law for me was the long hours and the fact that I seemed to spend every waking moment worrying about things I should be, need to be, working on to the point that I was dreaming about my cases. Now I was working in litigation which is very time intensive. I know that there are other areas that do not seem to take up so much of your time, like real estate for example. I also worked for a firm that made a big deal about your billable hours, expecting you to bill 2200 hours a year. That was one other thing I was always worrying about!

But some of the "cool" things that seem very trivial is the fact that people seem to look at you differently when you say that you are a lawyer (ridiculous, I know but I can't tell you how many times I have commanded more respect from someone after I told them what I do. Never seemed to get that same response when I say that I am a nurse) Plus my parents and family were sooo proud when I graduated and love to tell people that their DD is a lawyer. I also liked having a secretary/assistant. All very silly things but a nice change from nursing. Also, I really enjoyed what I did as a lawyer but it was taking a toll on my kids.

I think that teaching will be more like nursing in that it is a true "people person" field, the hours have to be shorter than the law and the vacation time will be great for my kids. Plus there is the retirement system( although I will be entering it 20 years after the majority of teachers!). These are all very practical things that I am considering.

Law school itself was great! Hard, tough, but a real growth experience. There is a lot to be learned about yourself when you go through it .
Good luck and let me know if you have any other questions!

 

[Kristi1357]

My best friend graduated from law school 2 years ago. She was near the top of her class and has had a very hard time finding a job. She finally got one about a year and a half ago and the head of the firm treated her like a dog. Even his assistant told her that! She was making very low pay and working 80+ hrs. per week. She finally left and has been temping at a big Philly firm. She makes more money that way, but has no benefits. She only works 40 hours now also! She's interviewed all over the place, but still no luck with a perm. job. Also, she has $100k in school loans to deal with.

A co-worker's DH went back to law school and graduated a couple years ago also. He did get a job with a big Boston firm and an equally big salary to go with it. BUT, his father was a judge and many family members are also lawyers (how he got the job). And he's working tons of hours.

I always believed that if you really love something, want to do it, whatever - you should do it! If there's a will, there's a way. I went to college for television production. All the professors told us to change majors, get other jobs, etc. They said we'd never get jobs and if we did, we'd make no money. Well, it did take me 2 years to break into a tiny tv station. But now I am working in Boston and make o.k. money - enough to live on. But there was nothing else that interested me. How I wish I had the patience to be a teacher and have summers off though! (I digress...)

 

[puffkin]

This is an interesting post.

I have an accounting degree, worked for a CPA firm and passed my CPA exam. Just needed the experience requirement to get licensed. I hated it. I had no life, the pay was decent but not good, and I lived in my car more than my house. And, if you have never had to track your time for billable hours, count yourself lucky, what a pain! I could not see myself living that lifestyle for 15-20 years until I could make partner and actually make decent money and control my own work.

I quit on April 16 (hehe, the day after tax day) and decided to go back to school for teaching (secondary English). The pay won't be as good, but the hours will be better and much more conducive to having a family and the lifestyle I want to live. I start school in 2 weeks and it will take me about 2 years to get certified.

I am working full time as a legal assistant at a small law firm while I go back to school. In law, it is all about who you know. It is a lot like accounting. When you start out, you work incredibly long hours with low pay and no appreciation. You have massive school bills as well as clothing bills (lawyers as well as accountants are expected to dress a certain way) and car bills (lawyers and accountants are expected to drive certain cars) and other expenses. Trust me, I have saved so much money not having to dry clean suits all the time and eat out for lunch. It always bugs me when people think being a lawyer or doctor ensures being wealthy. It takes a lot of work, skill, and luck to get to that point. I don't regret pursuing my accounting career, but I now know it wasn't for me.

Please take the time to consider all sides before taking the plunge into law school. If you are still debating between that and teaching, you might want to try observing a class and shadowing a lawyer. It should give you a good perspective on both.

 

[missypie]

One thing I forgot to tell you: forget the insurance field. Insurance defense work use to be cream of the crop, high status work. Our firm was founded on it. Now, thanks to the power of the insurance companies to dictate rates, it's the rate ghetto. Insuance companies have the power to cap rates and they do it with a vengance.

If you go to law school and are thinking about working at a law firm, find out the hourly rates of the folks you might work with and do a little math. If your starting rate is $175 per hour and you bill 1900 hours, the firm bills $332,500 for your time. To get that amount from someone whose rate is only $125 per hour, that person would have to bill 2660 hours per year, which translates into three hours of work more every day. If you can gravitate toward higher rate work, you'll have to work fewer hours. (Of course, the market changes over the course of a carreer.)

The most "prestige" law firms do not always require more billable hours than the small firms. It can be the opposite. I have a friend who is the managing partner of a small insurance defense firm, and his associates have to bill 300 more hours a year than ours before they are considered for a bonus.

This may seem overwhelming, but if you talk to people in law school, and take very opportunity you can to clerk, it all starts making sense.

 

[Sandy V.]

Everyone here has made very valid points. Whatever career path you take, make sure that you're doing it because you're passionate about the work. Otherwise, it will be absolute torture to make yourself get up in the morning to do the daily grind. I am a strong advocate of "Find a job that you love and you'll never work a day in your life." I've seen that to be true for many people, including me.

I graduated from law school in 1985. I met my husband at law school and we've been married over 21 years now. I work in the legal research and publishing field, which is perfect for my personality. I work in the office 1 week, then at home 2 weeks, then back to the office the next week, etc. I make a lot less money than my husband does, but my job provides the health benefits for our family, and makes me the more physically available parent for our teenagers.

People who don't understand the law business could never figure out why we didn't practice together. I told them, "No thanks, we'd prefer to STAY married." You have to have a life outside of the office.

My husband worked in the insurance defense field for over 15 years and now has his own law firm. He is under a lot of stress being in business for himself, but it suits his personality because he doesn't handle being told what to do very well. And he has done very well for himself, and I'm very proud of him for striking out on his own.

The people who wrote about long hours as an associate weren't kidding! You just cannot believe the hours Ron and I put in when we first graduated. And you don't escape them as a prosecutor or public defender, either. I worked as a deputy district attorney for 3 years and I worked just about every Sunday during that time to get ready for a Monday trial docket. Plus, you are often forced to bite your tongue and put up with a lot of crap to climb the ladder if you ever want to make partner and reduce your hours.

But . . . it is an EXTREMELY challenging field, and I really can't imagine doing anything else. You think you've seen it all, and then something else comes along!!

If you decide to go to law school, then try and obtain a position as a law clerk for a judge, preferably one that handles a variety of civil, criminal, and domestic matters. That way, you will see first hand different types of cases and discover exactly what branch of the law interests you.

Good luck in your decision. Feel free to ask any questions.

 

[DMickey28]

Thank you for all the responses...

I can't afford law school $100K !!! I am still paying back my undergrad. loans...

I just don't know what I want to do. Every test I take career wise points me towards teaching of some sort....

I just know I can't take doing the minial tasks I do everyday now!!
I think I would love the actually daily work as a lawyer but I don't think it blends with the daily home life I would like to have...

I don't know... i am only 26 but I feel like I really need to figure it out soon....

 

[Crankyshank]

My cousin owned his own successful bakery after graduating from J&W and decided he wanted something more. So he started working for a real estate attorney and went to law school nights. He just graduated and loves it.

One of my best friends got 2 basically useless degrees (Poli Sci and Philosophy). She wasn't sure what she wanted to do and worked in accounts payable for a few years and decided to go to law school. She goes nights and is starting her 2nd year (it will take her 4 yrs ). She likes it and is still deciding what kind of law she wants to get into, but it is a lot of work and she's basically a hermit unless it's school break.

 

[Lars624]

My brother graduated from Law School in May at age 56...............it was always something he wanted to do & he was able to walk across the stage & get his law degree at the same time his son did.

 

[jennyanydots]

Originally posted by missypie
One thing I forgot to tell you: forget the insurance field. Insurance defense work use to be cream of the crop, high status work. Our firm was founded on it. Now, thanks to the power of the insurance companies to dictate rates, it's the rate ghetto. Insuance companies have the power to cap rates and they do it with a vengance.

Hey, I resemble that remark.

I've been a lawyer for 20 years, in the insurance field. I've worked for firms and I've worked for insurance companies. currently I work at a major insurer. ("we know money".)

in NYC litigation firms are asking associates to bill 2000 or even 2200 hours per year. not every task you undertake is billable. and often firms expect "face time" in the evening or on weekends. do the math, it's not a pretty picture. insurance defense firms pay thier associates practically nothing. other firms, where the billing rate is considerably higher, tend to pay more, but in NYC and environs most attorneys are working killer hours, at least until they make partner. at white shoe firms assoicates are putting in 80 hours a week. at some smaller, no litigation firms, the hours are more reasonable.

NYC district attorneys start ADA's at a salary in the mid $30's these days. the trade off is that you get huge amounts of vacation and civil service benefits.

I work in house at an insurance company. it's straight salary, no bonuses or similar benefits, but it's also a 9-5 type job. and I'm the one who gets to scrutinize defense counsel's bills.

 

[DMickey28]

Jennyanddots ~ Do you mind if I ask what type of insurance company you work for? Health, Auto etc. That is defiently a field I am interested in as that is most of my work experience and that is the best part of my current job... sometimes I get thrown a little of the Law cases.

Thank you for everyone that responded... I am going to start another thread asking about this but how about the LSATs? How difficult? How much prep time?

If I had any hopes of getting in to law school for next year I would need to take them by December at the latest preferrable October. Seeing as I am getting married the weekend after the LSAT's in October, I am afraid I can't devote enough time to the studying before hand. I am also registered for another course for the fall online, Statistics.

Thanks so much. Everyone I have spoken too has stated that for years this is something I bounced around and it's something they think I would be good at.

THough to be clear, I have no desire to be in litigation or anything...

 

[jennyanydots]

the LSAT's -- can't help you, I took the test back in the dark ages.

I've always done property and casualty. right now I do environmental claims, but I've also done fidelity and surety bonds, professional liability and E & O coverage, and construction claims. I interviewed with a life insurer once, but wound up staying with P & C.

I've been with several law firms, I wasn't happy. what I do now is more like running the show from behind the scenes -- I investigate the claim and direct defense counsel through litigation and trial or settlement.

several of my colleagues have moved from claims to underwriting. others do litigation for in-house "firms" owned by the insurer. others handle regulation and reinsurance.

a JD in insurance is a definite plus.

 

[Crankyshank]

Everyone I know that took the LSAT's recently (there have been several over the past 5 yrs) spent about a year prepping for them.

You had posted before that you and your fiance were looking to move elsewhere. That's probably not the best idea if you're in the middle of a law program. Are you still planning on moving in the near future?

 

[BedKnobbery2]

My brother taught for about 10 years before heading back to law school. The biggest challenge for him was balancing family, work, and school--since he had 2 kids, he simply could not afford to not work. It was a VERY difficult 3 years for him, but he graduated last summer and found a job immediately.

I would say if you are considering law school, try to get it in before you have children--it is a grueling and demanding program, and will be much easier (but not easy!) to manage if you don't have children to care for.

I would love to go to law school, but I know there is absolutely no way I can do it while my kids are young. However, I really love law, and instead enrolled in a paralegal program (already had my undergrad degree in English Lit) and now work for a social security disability/personal injury lawyer. Obviously, nowhere near the same as being an attorney, but I still get to work in the field of law, and really love my job. So if you are unsure about working in law, and don't want to invest in law school just yet, that might be a path that could help you with the decision.