Changes made to resorts to make guests safer?

[kaytieeldr]

It is well known gators live in Florida. It was not well known that they live in a busy lake surrounded by theme parks and hotels, until this happened.

It actually is pretty well-known. Florida fresh water = alligator presence.

Everyone here in Illinois was not. Not saying I would ever let my kid go in the water even before this happened, but I falsely assumed gators stayed away from busy areas populated by humans.

Truly, did you mean "everyone in Illinois was not," or " not everyone in Illinois was? " The sentence structures mean different things. This isn't a grammar critique, I personally wouldn't be willing to speak for everyone in my state.

Given all the years of heavy traffic and human presence, I falsely assumed gators would prefer more remote areas.

Alligators prefer, and inhabit, water places. A number of posters have indicated why alligators don't fear humans.

I don't feel building a beach which invites people (many of those people small children) to hang out by a lake infested with gators is a great idea.

Inhabited by, not infested with. As a PP stated, alligators were endangered back when Seven Seas Lagoon and the beaches were created.

 

[Dave006]

I don't feel building a beach which invites people (many of those people small children) to hang out by a lake infested with gators is a great idea. JMO.

ETA, the beaches are one of the things that gave me a false sense of security.

Well in the '70s, '80s and the early 90s we were swimming in the Seven Seas lagoon & Bay Lake from the inviting beaches at the Contemporary and the Polynesian resorts.. The warm water amoeba Naegleria fowleri drove Disney make the water off limits for swimming in the 90s. Signs have been posted since then. The Seven Seas lagoon was never a "lake infested with gators".

My personal view is that the alligator population recovery and the Polynesian Bungalows are the direct cause of the increased interactions between guests and alligators resulting in the issue that the OP raised yet again.

Dave

 

[Lilsia]

I don't feel building a beach which invites people (many of those people small children) to hang out by a lake infested with gators is a great idea. JMO.

ETA, the beaches are one of the things that gave me a false sense of security.

I think we need to look at the context of the situation. Walking on the sand in the day time is probably fine. What happened in this case was that it was getting dark, the child went to the water and bent over filling the bucket. To the gator that looked like an animal coming to the water to drink. Gators are ambush predators, so this provided the ideal situation for the attack. I don't think that if the father and son where just walking along the sand there would have been an issue due to the nature of how they hunt. We just need to remember to always be safe rather then sorry. Be aware of your environment, think about what scenarios can happen, err on the side of caution. Don't live in fear, but be smart about things. That is all you can do.

 

[Tigger in a kilt]

I have to agree with @sbd78 - until this incident, it never occurred to me that Disney had built resorts around a lake that was full of alligators. Anyone should feel free to insult my intelligence if it makes them feel better. Not every visitor is American, not every visitor knows that the mascot of some Florida university is an alligator, nor does any reasonable amount of research turn up the fact that there are alligators in the middle of a fake plastic theme park. It’s Disney. Maybe it’s a false sense of security, but it’s one that Disney encourages in many ways, including through a lack of adequately detailed signage. While I did know there were alligators in Florida, prior to the GF incident, had I given it any thought I would have assumed that Disney were on top of the situation, had some kind of netting/fencing/dredging in place to prevent them to being there, and moved any immediately is one somehow got through these measures. I don’t know the detailed logistics of how this could be done, but before the GF incident, if pressed that would have been how I imagined Disney would have dealt with the problem. Apparently I was wrong, but I would suggest that this doesn’t make me stupid, merely someone who is not familiar with Florida.

When I go to Australia I know that they have dangerous wildlife, but I don’t expect to see sharks or crocodiles in the middle of the city, and I don’t expect that in WDW either. But when I saw the signs in one city that said “Warning: crocodiles. Stay away from water”, we stayed away from the water. If you cater to tourists and know that a large part of your market is comprised of first time or irregular visitors, you can’t expect them to know what locals or frequent visitors know.

Clearly I was wrong to think that, but I really can’t see how not knowing the idea that “it’s Florida, it’s full of alligators” is a personal failing.

 

[DisneyWishes14]

If you want to vacation someplace and be sure to avoid wildlife, don't leave your hotel room. Which really isn't a foolproof way to avoid wildlife, as all sorts of creepy crawlies can get in your room. And has been stated before, gators can climb. Point is, you can't avoid wildlife unless you never leave your house. Heck yesterday in the city of Grand Rapids they had the DNR out to go get a wild bear! They captured it, took it a couple hours north, and let it free.

You can't avoid wildlife, so the best you can do is educate yourself on what is in the area you will be visiting. I wouldn't go to Pigeon Forge and say "What idiot decided to put a theme park here, where there are bears all around?" Know what is around, be aware, and be smart. And don't ignore posted warning signs.

Yes! We have coyote warnings quite frequently where we live. We also saw a black snake at the WL pool back in August. There was a thread on here recently where a posted asked how to avoid snakes in AKL. I felt kind of bad, because, well, you just can't! I mean, chances are you won't see one, but it's FL. There are snakes there. And I don't mean ones behind glass over in Rafiki's Planet Watch. There are snakes everywhere.

I've said it before as have others. I just wish people would follow the posted rules at WDW. It would make everyone's vacations so much better.

 

[DisneyWishes14]

I have to agree with @sbd78 - until this incident, it never occurred to me that Disney had built resorts around a lake that was full of alligators. Anyone should feel free to insult my intelligence if it makes them feel better. Not every visitor is American, not every visitor knows that the mascot of some Florida university is an alligator, nor does any reasonable amount of research turn up the fact that there are alligators in the middle of a fake plastic theme park. It’s Disney. Maybe it’s a false sense of security, but it’s one that Disney encourages in many ways, including through a lack of adequately detailed signage. While I did know there were alligators in Florida, prior to the GF incident, had I given it any thought I would have assumed that Disney were on top of the situation, had some kind of netting/fencing/dredging in place to prevent them to being there, and moved any immediately is one somehow got through these measures. I don’t know the detailed logistics of how this could be done, but before the GF incident, if pressed that would have been how I imagined Disney would have dealt with the problem. Apparently I was wrong, but I would suggest that this doesn’t make me stupid, merely someone who is not familiar with Florida.

When I go to Australia I know that they have dangerous wildlife, but I don’t expect to see sharks or crocodiles in the middle of the city, and I don’t expect that in WDW either. But when I saw the signs in one city that said “Warning: crocodiles. Stay away from water”, we stayed away from the water. If you cater to tourists and know that a large part of your market is comprised of first time or irregular visitors, you can’t expect them to know what locals or frequent visitors know.

Clearly I was wrong to think that, but I really can’t see how not knowing the idea that “it’s Florida, it’s full of alligators” is a personal failing.

But WDW had similar signs by the edge of the lagoon, so what's the difference?

 

[Tigger in a kilt]

But WDW had similar signs by the edge of the lagoon, so what's the difference?

Did they specifically warn of alligators? My understanding was that they just said “No swimming”, which is very different.

 

[Huff]

Yes, however, the lakes around Magic Kingdom where this tragedy occurred are not what I would consider "swamps"

Define swamp. The water in Bay lake is disgusting, dirty, algae....swamp water! No way would I even think about swimming or wading in that kind of water.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

With no offense to the OP this topic could have been very easily found via Google. I know there are other things of course that can be too but this was a widely publicized incident in which numerous news outlets covered the installation of the fencing and rocks and adjusted signs.

Also again with no offense to the OP there was a tone and wordage used that no doubt a back and forth discussion would ensue--it was like opening Pandora's box if you will on a long-since-hashed-away-with-many-threads-closed-topic, as it included more than just a cut and dry question.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I have to agree with @sbd78 - until this incident, it never occurred to me that Disney had built resorts around a lake that was full of alligators.

Disney built the lake, and the resorts, in 1971, except the Grand Floridian which opened in 1988. Alligators were on the endangered list until 1987. No, Disney didn't build anything around any body of water that was invested with alligators. Even now, even in the spring of 2016, Seven Seas Lagoon wasn't infested with alligators.

nor does any reasonable amount of research turn up the fact that there are alligators in the middle of a fake plastic theme park.

Well, technically the lagoon isn't in the middle of a theme park. Even more technically, Magic Kingdom isn't plastic.

It’s Disney.

Overall, though, it's Florida. There's about one alligator for every 16 people in Florida.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

My point is that wildlife is going to do what is in its nature to do. Fencing and signage are proactive measures but guests also bear some responsibility for their own safety. The fences give a sense of security but they are meant to keep guests from entering the water, not to keep alligators from getting out of the water. Gators can climb fences, just Google a few videos.

Gators may be able to climb fences But it will slow them down and they're not going to be able to drag people back over that fence all that quickly or as readily as they can snatch them off the beach and into the water with no fence.
The further a gator has to go on land and the more obstacles in his way, the less likely he is to make the attempt because a gator knows he has to get back to the water fairly quickly. That is where he has the advantage.

 

[Marionnette]

Gators may be able to climb fences But it will slow them down and they're not going to be able to drag people back over that fence all that quickly or as readily as they can snatch them off the beach and into the water with no fence.
The further a gator has to go on land and the more obstacles in his way, the less likely he is to make the attempt because a gator knows he has to get back to the water fairly quickly. That is where he has the advantage.

If you want to believe that the child was "snatched off the beach" instead of attacked while wading in the water, then we will have to just agree to disagree.

 

[Married2theYeti]

I live in Indiana, and went to Disney World for the first time in 1976. I have visited many, many times since then. We have stayed both on and off site over the years and I have never seen a gator on any of my trips. I am well aware that alligators live in Florida, but I too falsely assumed that gators stayed away from busy areas such as theme parks. Like Dave006 said, people used to swim in Seven Seas Lagoon and Bay Lake. I always thought the no swimming rules were due to "nasty" water.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

If you want to believe that the child was "snatched off the beach" instead of attacked while wading in the water, then we will have to just agree to disagree.

If you want to make snide remarks and be argumentative, I'll simply ignore you. The fact that fences offer a degree of protection doesn't change. And for the purposes of my post it doesn't matter whether she was snatched off of dry beach or wading on wet beach.

 

[Summer2018]

Yes, however, the lakes around Magic Kingdom where this tragedy occurred are not what I would consider "swamps" and Disney isn't exactly new, it opened in the early 70's. Given all the years of heavy traffic and human presence, I falsely assumed gators would prefer more remote areas. Clearly I am one of the dumb people who didn't do my research and thank you for enlightening me.

On our first trip to WDW in 2004, I couldn’t understand why our resort had a beautiful beach but we weren’t allowed to swim in the lake and cool off. I grew up in the northeast on a lake that we swam in and boated on in the summer and ice skated on in the winter. I seriously had no idea that the reason we couldn’t swim in our WDW resort lake was because of alligators.

As a child, I was told that alligators only lived in alligator alley. As an adult, I learned about the difference between our lakes up north and lakes down south. Reality television shows about wildlife in the south have educated me more.

I don’t think it’s fair to assume that people from different parts of the country are going to know that a man-made lake in the middle of a resort will have alligators in it.

Knowing this now, I definitely won’t go in the lake to swim or operate any type of watercraft.

 

[Shanti]

Define swamp. The water in Bay lake is disgusting, dirty, algae....swamp water! No way would I even think about swimming or wading in that kind of water.

People used to swim in it all the time. People still do water sports in it. Disney chose to name it "Bay Lake", not "Bay Swamp", to make it sound more inviting.

As prior posters have commented, the gator situation has changed over the past 30 years at WDW. There are a lot more of them now, and some of them have lost their fear of humans. But it wasn't always this way, and there is nothing wrong with the rare visitor who doesn't happen to know the status quo.

The old signs around the beaches said, "No swimming". The family whose child died was not swimming, they were wading in the water. They were following the rules. A "no swimming" sign could just as reasonably be interpreted as a safety issue in regards to lack of lifeguards as in regards to aquatic wildlife. And therefore, a family wading in the water with their child under supervision could reasonably assume there was no danger to any of them.

I wish people would stop the name calling & victim blaming I've seen on threads around this topic.

 

[HopperFan]

Either way, I think it's good they're taking extra measures to ensure it NEVER happens again.

There will NEVER be enough "measures" in place to prevent this again.
1) There are many ponds, canals and waterways & many back up to resorts that are not fenced and can't be.
2) Gators can climb.
3) People will still go in the water, go in water after dark and not follow rules or signs OR use common sense.

Well this is predictably going sideways.

Well, every time an OP wants to start a conversation about the "incident" there will be the rational and irrational responses. To keep repeating you don't want to talk about something that is the in the original post ... it will only bring more conversation.

O.K., but it's one thing to research wildlife when camping in the smoky mountains and quite another to research wildlife for your stay at the Grand Floridian. Most people haven't been to Disney 40+ times and had the opportunity to see gators in busy places on property like many of the posters on this forum have. It is well known now because this tragedy occurred.

Also, I've never considered Bay Lake to be "swam land."

I am very familiar with the city they are from, I have many relatives that live near and around. I asked them their feelings on what they would/should know about entering into the water. They said that even where they live you should never enter the water at dusk on .... lots of critters and snakes that could attack. They said it would be common sense to not enter water not used for swimming, especially at night. Add that the water there at the beach is solid underwater greenery or foliage that makes entering it obviously dangerous.

I think we all agree if was horrific and what nightmares are made of for any parent ... but no matter where any of us go, we are responsible for our actions. That poor family will have to live with the choices they made that night. Things like this happen all the time, but usually in not such an usual way at such a public place.

It's just sad that people want to keep bringing this up over and over.

 

[CdnCarrie]

Will gators ever snatch prey off land and drag it into water? I never let my kids go on the beaches except to watch the movies where we weren't near the edge of the water.

 

[sbd78]

Truly, did you mean "everyone in Illinois was not," or " not everyone in Illinois was? " The sentence structures mean different things. This isn't a grammar critique, I personally wouldn't be willing to speak for everyone in my state.

Not sure if you read all the posts, but I think you missed the point. It was a conversation between Maxiesmom and myself. Maxiesmom quoted my post that said, "It is well known gators live in Florida. It was not well known that they live in a busy lake surrounded by theme parks and hotels, until this happened." and replied with, "Sure it was." I then replied with, "By who? You? So your sample size of 1 means it was well known? I talked to quite a few people who didn't know back when it happened." She replied with, "Everyone I spoke with was well aware of the danger. Everyone. Way up here in Michigan." My reply, "Everyone here in Illinois was not" was in response to this. As in, everyone here in Illinois was not well aware of the danger. I was actually making the point that she couldn't speak for everyone. So thanks for unintentionally helping me make my point.

 

[sbd78]

Define swamp. The water in Bay lake is disgusting, dirty, algae....swamp water! No way would I even think about swimming or wading in that kind of water.

When I think of a swamp, I think of the Everglades. Not Bay Lake/Seven Seas Lagoon. And while the water may be disgusting, several people on this thread said that you could swim in them in Disney's early days.