CDC Notifies States, Large Cities To Prepare For Vaccine Distribution As Soon As Late October

[Wakey]

Well talk today of the USA opening borders up with Europe- the logic being that US has the worst covid problem in the world so its pointless stopping others with less of a problem coming in.

 

[Jonfw2]

Well talk today of the USA opening borders up with Europe- the logic being that US has the worst covid problem in the world so its pointless stopping others with less of a problem coming in.

I guarantee Europe isn’t letting anyone without quarantine unless they’ve shown vax verification.

 

[sam_gordon]

My favorite is the people who say they will "wait a few months." As if that is going to provide any new information. The trials have been going on for more than a few months and would've shown short term side effects.

I respect being concerned (even though I disagree) but if you're truly concerned about side effects of the vaccine you need to wait a few years not a few months. There won't be much new to glean in a few months that wasn't already discovered with the trials.

A few months WILL provide more information. There will be millions if not tens of millions who will have gotten the vaccine.

Let me ask you this... if the scientists who developed the vaccine came out and said "We tested it on ONE person, they didn't get Covid, and it's perfectly safe!", would that be enough for you? With a single test subject, would you be willing to line up to get the vaccine?

 

[Farro]

A few months WILL provide more information. There will be millions if not tens of millions who will have gotten the vaccine.

Let me ask you this... if the scientists who developed the vaccine came out and said "We tested it on ONE person, they didn't get Covid, and it's perfectly safe!", would that be enough for you? With a single test subject, would you be willing to line up to get the vaccine?

But that's not what happened, is it? So why would we even entertain the thought of that?

 

[KayKayJS]

A few months WILL provide more information. There will be millions if not tens of millions who will have gotten the vaccine.

Let me ask you this... if the scientists who developed the vaccine came out and said "We tested it on ONE person, they didn't get Covid, and it's perfectly safe!", would that be enough for you? With a single test subject, would you be willing to line up to get the vaccine?

That's not really how vaccine approval works - but if it makes you feel better - then that's fine... If that's how you feel then I'm assuming you would not ever take a vaccine until tens of millions have taken it?

Tens of thousands of people have been enrolled in these trials without severe short term side effects - many in the placebo group developed severe covid. With a survival ** rate of 99-99.5% (depending on age or who you believe) - if the vaccine is approved - then they have been determined that the reward is higher than the risk.

If it makes you feel better to have millions get the vaccine before you - great. I personally feel that there could be a risk long term (because we don't have any way to study that at this point) but even that is extremely extremely unlikely.

ETA: This is obviously a personal choice. If it makes you uneasy, I understand not getting it. For me, I'm more uneasy at the thought of going unvaccinated. A coworker of mine in his 40s lost his life to this virus and for me the statistics skew me towards vaccine being the right call for me. For my parents who are in the higher risk group - even more so.

 

[sam_gordon]

That's not really how vaccine approval works - but if it makes you feel better - then that's fine... If that's how you feel then I'm assuming you would not ever take a vaccine until tens of millions have taken it?

Tens of thousands of people have been enrolled in these trials without severe short term side effects - many in the placebo group developed severe covid. With a death rate of 99-99.5% (depending on age or who you believe) - if the vaccine is approved - then they have been determined that the reward is higher than the risk.

If it makes you feel better to have millions get the vaccine before you - great. I personally feel that there could be a risk long term (because we don't have any way to study that at this point) but even that is extremely extremely unlikely.

ETA: This is obviously a personal choice. If it makes you uneasy, I understand not getting it. For me, I'm more uneasy at the thought of going unvaccinated. A coworker of mine in his 40s lost his life to this virus and for me the statistics skew me towards vaccine being the right call for me. For my parents who are in the higher risk group - even more so.

A DEATH RATE of 99-99.5%?

And I wasn't saying anything about approval. You asked what could be found out in months of the vaccine being available that isn't available now. I answered.

 

[DeniseJH]

They’re idiots.

I agree - but the post of yours that I quoted is misleading then: it reads as if you and your family will stop wearing masks as soon as you get vaccinated, with no regard to whether or not others have yet had their opportunity.

 

[KayKayJS]

A DEATH RATE of 99-99.5%?

And I wasn't saying anything about approval. You asked what could be found out in months of the vaccine being available that isn't available now. I answered.

Lol, you know I meant survival rate. Also - you answered... if you won't take this vaccine you shouldn't take any other vaccine approved in this manner until it's been tested on tens of millons.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Well talk today of the USA opening borders up with Europe- the logic being that US has the worst covid problem in the world so its pointless stopping others with less of a problem coming in.

Not directly related to your comment but Iceland is reopening to people including U.S. citizens provided “To be granted permission for an extended stay, the person in question must demonstrate an employment relationship with a foreign company (or verify self-employment in the country where they have a permanent residence) and meet the income and health insurance requirements. That income threshold is set at one million Icelandic krona monthly, which is equal to about $7,360 monthly or $88,000 annually."

The article I was reading was saying 42% of Iceland's economy last year at least was based on tourism. We had for a really short time (like a year to two) a non-stop flight to Iceland at my airport but sadly that went away (not that I plan on traveling there but it is a place available to U.S. citizens)

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

A few months WILL provide more information. There will be millions if not tens of millions who will have gotten the vaccine.

Let me ask you this... if the scientists who developed the vaccine came out and said "We tested it on ONE person, they didn't get Covid, and it's perfectly safe!", would that be enough for you? With a single test subject, would you be willing to line up to get the vaccine?

Hyperbole here isn't going to really help with all due respect. I understand where people are coming from and respect the more honest dialogue but it's hard to have a talk when the go to is something so out there it's just being used as a roadblock.

 

[Jonfw2]

I agree - but the post of yours that I quoted is misleading then: it reads as if you and your family will stop wearing masks as soon as you get vaccinated, with no regard to whether or not others have yet had their opportunity.

If places still require them I will wear one.

 

[sam_gordon]

Hyperbole here isn't going to really help with all due respect. I understand where people are coming from and respect the more honest dialogue but it's hard to have a talk when the go to is something so out there it's just being used as a roadblock.

Well, my point, and I'm sure you got it, is everyone will have a different line on what's "enough". But, because I don't think 25K test subjects is enough, I get shamed and insulted. No, not by you, but it's definitely in this thread (and others).

 

[sam_gordon]

Lol, you know I meant survival rate. Also - you answered... if you won't take this vaccine you shouldn't take any other vaccine approved in this manner until it's been tested on tens of millons.

I'm fairly comfortable saying the next time there's a pandemic and a new vaccine is pushed out relatively quickly (not a bad thing) that yes, I'll be willing to wait.

 

[KayKayJS]

Well, my point, and I'm sure you got it, is everyone will have a different line on what's "enough". But, because I don't think 25K test subjects is enough, I get shamed and insulted. No, not by you, but it's definitely in this thread (and others).

I believe there's been quite a few more participants than that... but let's just go with that - if 0/25000 had no severe side effects I feel like that's a pretty good.. (0%) Hypothetically, if 1/25,000 had an adverse reaction (I've not seen that has happened, though) that's 99.996% safe or a .00004% had a reaction. Current belief is that COVID's survival rate is lower than 99.996%... Let's say it's 99.95% survival for the general population or .05% death rate and play with the numbers:

.00004 x 100k = 4
.0005 x 100k = 50

This is just how I look at it. I would not get a vaccine that was being rolled out for a non-deadly illness within the first few years - but COVID is a different situation. Based on those hypothetical numbers I'd take the risk of the vaccine. I imagine that's what the FDA will be weighing; and I trust their decision once they've had time to review all of the data.

 

[sam_gordon]

I believe there's been quite a few more participants than that... but let's just go with that - if 0/25000 had no severe side effects I feel like that's a pretty good.. (0%) Hypothetically, if 1/25,000 had an adverse reaction (I've not seen that has happened, though) that's 99.996% safe or a .00004% had a reaction. Current belief is that COVID's survival rate is lower than 99.996%... Let's say it's 99.95% survival for the general population or .05% death rate and play with the numbers:

.00004 x 100k = 4
.0005 x 100k = 50

This is just how I look at it. I would not get a vaccine that was being rolled out for a non-deadly illness within the first few years - but COVID is a different situation. Based on those hypothetical numbers I'd take the risk of the vaccine. I imagine that's what the FDA will be weighing; and I trust their decision once they've had time to review all of the data.

I did a quick look somewhere and found that Pfizer (I think it was them) had ~46k participants. Half got the placebo, half got the vaccine. That got to 23K and I rounded up to 25k. I will still feel better with millions getting it. Since I would be in "phase 4" anyway, millions would have had the virus before I even get a chance at it. Maybe my mind will be changed by that point.

My main concern isn't the short term effects (the high fever, body aches, bad headaches, daylong exhaustion and other symptoms that have been reported and only supposed to last a day or two), but I do worry about long term effects that no one can say for sure, because there hasn't been a long time. Does that mean I plan on waiting a year, a decade, or even longer? No. But I do worry about what we don't know. If that makes me "wrong" and "selfish", so be it.

 

[dvcgirl67]

There appears to be a bit of a bumpy road for the AstraZenenca vaccine with respect to Early Authorization Use.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/25/...tion=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

 

[ronandannette]

I don't think prohibitions will be implemented until you can get a LOT more people vaccinated, if at all. And, how would you prove you got the vaccination? A screen shot on a phone? Photoshop. A paper certificate you actually need to carry around? Photoshop & paper won't last. Last but not least, who is going to check the validity of what you present? And you think every business is going to do it? I have a bridge to sell you.

In the CNN article there's a great link to an issue I have addressed before. I posted above It's all good to get the shot but how does one prove it and how does one accept that proof.

There are currently many countries that require proof of yellow fever vaccination to enter. We have an “official” paper insert in our passports and it has never been questioned or had the authenticity challenged. Why would this be any different?

 

[luvsvacation]

My main concern isn't the short term effects (the high fever, body aches, bad headaches, daylong exhaustion and other symptoms that have been reported and only supposed to last a day or two), but I do worry about long term effects that no one can say for sure, because there hasn't been a long time. Does that mean I plan on waiting a year, a decade, or even longer? No. But I do worry about what we don't know. If that makes me "wrong" and "selfish", so be it.

This is my thought as well. My concern is that 10 years down the line they could discover that the vaccine has some unintended consequences. I trust and believe in science, but I also know that science is continually evolving. How many drugs that were considered safe and readily prescribed by doctors have now been pulled because as time goes on and more is learned it is discovered that there is a dangerous side effect.

I usually believe in vaccines. I’ve gotten my kids all of their vaccines. But I’m in no rush to get one that is so new, that we don’t know if there will be long term affects from. To me it’s about risk analysis. If Covid had a 50% death rate and millions were dying each week from covid then yes I would get the vaccine as quickly as possible. Covid has a fraction of 1% death rate and more than half the people with it have absolutely no symptoms. I would much rather take my changes on having the virus than the vaccine.

The past few weeks Covid numbers in my area (suburban Midwest) have skyrocketed. Everyone seems to have it. I personally know many many positive people right now. The one thing all of them have in common is that it’s very mild. About half have no symptoms and the other have feel like they have a cold. Included in this group are elderly people 80+, and people with a multitude of health problems including my mom who is in her late 60s with asthma, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and many other ailments. I realize there is a small fraction of people who’s bodies have a terrible reaction to the virus and they either die or have severe complications but considering the vast majority do not I’d rather take my chances on the virus than the vaccine. I have seen many from the “high risk” groups catch Covid and recover just fine.

 

[DeniseJH]

If places still require them I will wear one.

Do you only wear a mask in places that require it right now though? You've got to wait 'til others can get vaccinated before you can stop wearing a mask. You understand that part, right?

 

[DeniseJH]

This is my thought as well. My concern is that 10 years down the line they could discover that the vaccine has some unintended consequences.

I think this is understandable, but in regards to just this part above: In your scenario, say that after 10 years there are no ill effects showing from the vaccine, so you get the vaccine...but then at 15 years problems start showing up. Anything is possible, but they know more about how vaccines work now so we're in a much better place. And at some point we do have to get society back to more normal...people need to get back to work and being able to have social lives. (Not that I believe anyone should be forced to get one of these vaccines...but I do believe some businesses/venues should require some sort of proof of vaccine to enter.) If problems do start showing up at 5 years, or 10 years, or 20 years, we STILL will have made the right choice, IMO.