Casey Anthony Trial Thread #3

[Kurby]

does baez not understand that there is a HUGE difference between 2-3 days in water 2-3 weeks and in the case he talked about and 6 MONTHS in THIS case

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

OK...I don't get it. What does NO DNA on the tape prove? That NO ONE touched it? Weren't they putting it in George's hands? Or was it not tested at all? Or not by this guy's method, which would have come up with DNA?

Damn that Baez. Gets in questions that he HAS TO know are going to be objected to and overruled, but as long as he rings that bell. Creep.

 

[Mosoh]

Sorry, I got lost on this one. What is the defense's point with this witness on touch DNA?

Prosecution wouldn't let him do the testing now?

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

I'm lost. Ya'll are going to have to clift note me on this one. Between the accent and the increadably (sp?) boring testimony I'm nodding off here.

http://netives.com/Games/Marbles/play.php

 

[Samba]

There is a good deal HoseA does noy appear to understand.

At times I wonder how JBP is going to hold this together as a legimate trial. I know he wants it to proceed and to hold up to scrutiny, but the dteam is making it difficult.

 

[irishbosoxfan]

Witness Eikenbloom talking about "touch DNA"


Has lots of slides to explain.

Harder touching creates greater chance to leave dna

Says its harder to get dna from epithelial cells (skin cells) because the cells are dying

ALS shows semen and sweat

Look for places where force was applied (torn shirt etc) for bigger sample

Develop working hypothesis as to where he would think contact would be the greatest then test those areas for dna profile

Tape helps in collecting samples

JB asks about duct tape and if it would hold dna from ripping it---Yes

JB which side of duct tape would hold the best dna---Sticky side

JB if sticky side stuck to face what would expect to find--- epithelial cells, buccal cells

JB have you formed an opinion if tape was stuck to this childs face---The tape was put on the mouth then removed---JA objects and says no proof it was torn off

JB would you expect there to be dna after it being outside---dna would break down...but with PCR techniques you would expect to find dna

JB asks him to go to that section of his slide presentation

Eik---we amplify dna we don't clone it---1 cell should be enough to get dna--standard dna requires 100+

JB were you made aware there was 2 partial profiles on duct tape...Is it possible for 1 sample to override the other---Yes

Eik--I would have investigated the evidence even further

JB asking about the 17 allele found on the B3....do you have an opinion if this is an artifact or human dna----human dna

JB have you ever extracted dna from maggots or flies---they feed on human material then dna cell material can be found because at the beginning its not completely digested so its possible to obtain dna profile

JB what would chloroform do to(?)---chloroform used to aid in extraction of dna

So chloroform wouldnt hinder dna extraction--i wouldn't say never if its too much then yes



JA do you have a phd---No

JA youre a student--yes

JA youre under 2 professers tuttelage--yes

JA so theres 3(wife him and 1 other person) of you in a converted barn thats a lab---Yes

JA in 2008 you and wife decided to expand to US --You have more homicides over here

JA your testifying in this case helps you and your wives company---wouldnt say that

JA when you open your lab in Colorado working on this case gets you more work...more work means more money----We will be able to pick jobs but we dont need more work

JA how many labs in the US do the work you do---(I think he ended with 3)

JA a # of labs in the US who can do what you do--No they dont do what we do...contact dna...touch dna...low copy dna...US labs deal with main dna..blood,semen

JA do you use a particular kit or protocol---You can use any regular dna kit we just do more amplifications...runs

JA you buy those kits from Applied Bio Services which is a US company

JA you do many runs...1 cell becomes 2...2 becomes 4...4 becomes 8
what is there in that process that regular labs can't do?----(Long answer......... we end with contact dna)

JA the only additional step you do is you make more runs on the PCR--No its more important to find dna...you play with the way you find dna...you cut out a sample from a pinpoint location and dissolve it...you can take 1000's of samples where normal labs run into problems

JA you didnt answer the question---He ends up saying yes

JA finding dna in insects...have you ever gotten dna from fruit fly--No

JA if digestion is recent you can get dna--depends on stage of insect

JA you told DT recent--if digested dna you cant amplify

JA if it had been a month or more dna wouldnt be available---(long answer...didnt really answer)

JA what is the most destructive factor to dna---moisture and temperature

JA so hot and wet--Yes

JA a piece of duct tape on a person skins ripped off takes off living and dead cells---Yes

JA so a piece not ripped off its only dead cells--Yes

JA duct tape on face then placed in a swampy under water hot environment trash dump and sits for 6 months as skin decomposes leaving it skeletonized that its unlikely...remote to find dna---conditions bad for dna...wether you lose all of it is possible or if theres some dna left for low copy dna

JA you dont expect to find dna on outside of bone--outside of bones skin and flesh coming off...still dna in those locations but way more difficult to obtain

JA so youd agree its extremely unlikely---Very difficult

JA you said one 17 allele dna can mask another dna but only if it matches another 17 allele--yes

JA it would only mask its identical--yes

JA so no way this profile masks another profile--No (in refernce to the dna found on the tape)


They start going over the dna profile from the tape

Eik says it could be dna under the profile but not sure it could be artifacts thats its a good idea to run low copy dna on it

JA asks what theyre max level for testing is and its the same as everywhere else

JA asks if he got this report would he test further--No

JA did you ask to retest the tape---we mentioned we could investigate

JA were items from the DT sent for additional testing--No


Redirect by JB

JB youve been sought out by other countries to do testing--Yes

JB youve already been exposed internationally--Yes

JB asks what kind of exposure

JA objects

Sidebar

JB what kind of exposure...when did you get (?)--We were asked to do contact dna...we got defendant exonorated (Mr Masters)

JB what did you do---We evaluated and got courts permission to do contact dna it was allowed and they took it to the Netherlands and they were able to obtain dna profile that didnt match Masters

JB you received international media attention from dna from a 20 year old case where the person was found outdoors and you were able to find dna--Yes

JB have you received other cases based on the exposure you received from that case--Yes

JB did other law enforcement go to the Netherlands to seek you out--Yes

JB when you talk about touch dna its not just about running extra cycles... there are kits that you use are more sensitive--Yes

JB another consideration is the type of machine you use---yes

Bringing up slides of machines

Blah blah blah

We use a different machine we do 1 sample at a time they can do 16

JB you were asked about degradation... do you have any examples---Shows 20 year old panties

JB says well I see lots of blood and doc says ---you expect lots of victim dna but we look for perp dna

Then they show right hand of victim which had laid in water--We got dna

Then jacket that was in water for 3 to 4 days--we got dna

JB though these conditions dont help you were able to obtain dna--Yes

JB you requested to do dna on items in this case and you were willing to do it pro bono but state objected because they were against....

JA objects

Sidebar

JA animated at sidebar--HHBP looking at Jb and shaking head---JB shaking his head looks back at KC and she's shaking her head

Going for afternoon break

 

[irishbosoxfan]

HHBP speaking

Objection sustained in a sense

Asking JA exactly what he wants--delicate and fine line with that as far as burden shifting--something I dont want to have to deal with at the last minute and if its last minute I will disallow

Easy legal issue to decipher some issues are better left unsaid

We are in recess



??????????????

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

Perry was talking about shifting of the burden of proof:

shifting the burden of proof n. in a lawsuit the plaintiff (the party filing suit) has the burden of proof to produce enough evidence to prove his/her/its basic (prima facie) case. If that burden is met, then the burden of proof shifts to the other party, putting the defendant in the position of having the burden to prove he/she has a defense. There may be shifts of burden of proof on specific factual issues during a trial, which may impact the opposing parties and their need to produce evidence.

 

[Mosoh]

Bill Sheaffer just said on his chat live that Dr. Rod will not be testifing...first because of the deceit of claiming to be Co-founder of BF and second because in his depo on Saturday he stated that Caylee hadn't been moved - had been in same place since late June/early July!
CLICK

 

[Samba]

I would never be able to answer JB! I can not follow his questions today?! He starts and stops two or three times as he meanders through his questions. aaaaargh

JB having a hard time questioning his own defense witness.

Haha..JA parting shot...He is not a doctor!

 

[Kurby]

so 3 direct and 3 cross on the same witness.

maybe we should have taken over/under with diect/cross instead of sidebars LOL

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Bill Sheaffer just said on his chat live that Dr. Rod will not be testifing...first because of the deceit of claiming to be Co-founder of BF and second because in his depo on Saturday he stated that Caylee hadn't been moved - had been in same place since late June/early July!
CLICK

So he basically impeac himself???

BIG mistake for Baez. Overstated credentials AND his testimony would not match his defense.

Does Toys R Us have a Witness R Us department?

 

[irishbosoxfan]

We're back



JB questioning Eikenbloom

JB broke out his Jpad wrote the #17 on it

Jb asking if he thought the 17 was human dna and asks how many ?

JB so if I'm a 14/15 at the B3 can you exclude that person--Yes



JA up

JA original dna testing done thru (?? big word) so it requires a substantial amount of dna--Yes

JA Pcr made it so that less dna required--yes

JA the smaller amount of dna required for touch dna increases the chance for contamination--yes

JA if you tested the tape there is 3 possible results...nothing--yes
if you found nothing it wouldn't be unusual due to conditions--yes
other possible result you couldve found Caylees dna-yes
which could mean tape was over her mouth--yes
3rd is you couldve found unknown dna--yes
and if unknown found then theres no way to know if it belongs to anyone involved in the case--would have to do testing

Eik--low copy dna more prone to contamination having said that we test the unknown against all persons known to be in contact with the case to exclude them from contaminating the crime scene

JA because this test is so sensitive you cant know for sure if someone (tech) had contact with their wife and got it on the evidence--youd expect more dna from the tech than the wife but its less likely than direct contact

JA problem is you wouldnt know if unknown profile is you dont know where it came from--yes

Ja asking for pic of jacket. hand and panties to be brought up

JA was that object found with skeletal remains--No

JA saying basically none of the items were associated with skeletal remains



JB up

JB based on what you do wether its skelatal remains has no bearing on the outcome of testing on the item---you can have problems depending on condition of the items

JB back to the Jpad

Says JA 3 items leaves out a 4th scenario..that duct tape may not have been around Caylees mouth based on evidence state presented---if placed on mouth then in the beginning there would be dna

JB when you find perps dna on item you never go into court and say you dont know if the dna on the item is related to the crime---its up to the judge and jury to determine if the dna is crime related

JB either the evidence is there or not you never say if it is or not--correct


JA what youre saying is that the proximity of the tape to rotting flesh has no bearing on the outcome---yes it does

(I know JA made a point with the above but I lost it )


Sidebar

HHBP asks if witness can be excused for today

JB calling Yuri Melich

 

[usnuzuloose]

I like that well whatever he is

 

[Mosoh]

Melich is back

 

[Kurby]

melich is back

 

[Kurby]

i'm not convinced hat she used cloriform chloriform or however it's spelt

i know it's what the state says happens but i'm not convinced of that part

 

[Mosoh]

i'm not convinced hat she used cloriform chloriform or however it's spelt

i know it's what the state says happens but i'm not convinced of that part

I'm not either but I won't exclude it either. If she needed her to be asleep and out cold when the tape was applied it does make sense.

 

[Kurby]

states says the duct tape over the mouth and nose is what killed caylee

why the need for chloriform?

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

Aw, how sweet. Melich is helpin' Baez find the information.