Carsland, Star Wars Land, Avatarland - What is Disney capable of doing?

[lockedoutlogic]

Too early to make that call, IMO.

To those of us who follow Disney news religiously, MDE currently appears to be something of a muddled mess. But as conceived, it's an overall technological improvement program unparalleled in the theme park industry. There's a lot of "wow factor" in the Magic Bands, touch-to-enter, interactive queues, smartphone apps, etc.

Of course, that's only true IF everything works AND it helps to enhance the park experience. And the jury is still out on that one.

It's been a long time since WDW added an "E" ticket, but they have done a decent job in recent years of refreshing / enhancing older attractions. Spaceship Earth, Star Tours, Test Track, Phineas & Ferb game at Epcot...all have received a little love.

I can't see Disney going 3 years before Avatar / Pandora opens with nothing new added to the parks. The question is what can they come up with to fill 2014-2016.

See... After a weeks experience...I have the opposite take. They work better than I thought they would -knowing Disney - and I think there is ZERO wow factor at all. It's a convenience charm bracelet...just easier like a MAC card in 1988.

The one interactive thing that worked with it... The test track preshow... Was just fluff.
And they specifically rehabbed it for this system.

That all you got?

 

[Bob Roberts]

The thing I do not understand about any of these executives in North America these days is when is enough, enough? Why do all of these people want to be worth 100's of millions of dollars?

I have enough money to live comfortably, I don't see why one would want any more then that?

If I was Bob Iger I would want my legacy to be up there with Walts. Be known as the guy who took the Walt Disney company to unprecedented heights in both the theme park aspect as well as the movies. Instead he will be totally forgotten in 2 years after he has left (heck I think the average person has no clue who he is now) with his 100's of millions in tow.

Bob Roberts (Old School OKW member)

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The thing I do not understand about any of these executives in North America these days is when is enough, enough? Why do all of these people want to be worth 100's of millions of dollars?

I have enough money to live comfortably, I don't see why one would want any more then that?

If I was Bob Iger I would want my legacy to be up there with Walts. Be known as the guy who took the Walt Disney company to unprecedented heights in both the theme park aspect as well as the movies. Instead he will be totally forgotten in 2 years after he has left (heck I think the average person has no clue who he is now) with his 100's of millions in tow.

Bob Roberts (Old School OKW member)

The problem is that Walt liked money too...he had a hugely contentious negotiation with his brother when Roy decided to Seperate Walt and his family from the Disney company in name for business purposes...
Walt was "bought out" as the name Disney - other than I believe what later became imagineering...in the late 50's or early 60's...if I remember it correctly.

And he didnt do it on the cheap... It wasn't for "the love of magic"
His wife and daughters families lived in complete comfort for the rest of their lives...and they never left the yard.

Greed has always been there... Ridiculous heightened greed is now a teenager...
And if you want to blame somebody : blame the United States Government for allowing this to happen...
Both sides of the isle.

 

[tjkraz]

I would also add that it's more about investors--institutional investors--than executive wealth.

Most of TWDC's "owners" are pension plans and 401k administrators who have a responsibility to protect their plans' financial health. Every time you get your 401k statement in the mail, you're judging the performance of the plan's managers. And those managers are the ones holding Disney's feet to the fire to turn higher and higher profits every quarter.

I'm not saying that executive compensation isn't a problem. But Disney is going to keep pushing those numbers upward regardless of what Iger stands to make personally.

Despite the public outcry over Michael Eisner back in the mid-'00s, he didn't agree to resign until he lost faith of investors. Those pension plans and 401k administrators didn't (specifically) care that Brother Bear sucked or what was happening with the parks....they cared that Disney stock prices were languishing in the mid-$20s.

Today Disney stock is around $70 per share. Investors love Iger...and you probably do, too, whenever you check the balance of your investments.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Your point is granted...


Which is why I wish disney was taken private. Public trading kills creativity now as aggressively as it once rewarded it.

I buy inflated tickets and food and somewhere in Santa Clara a teacher that retired in 1988 gets a dividend check.

No hope for new joy when you look at it that way

 

[tmoret]

Ok here are my thoughts and I have to say that YES they have changed alot since we took out 10yr old Nephew with us this last Sept. for his birthday.
I now agree there is way more stuff for girls then boys so adding in a Star Wars Land would bring make a lot of boys that age happy. There is so much more they could do with that area of HS and to be honest I think Disney will do this. They know that Universal is killing it with the "tweens" age group because of Harry Potter. My thoughts are also that they need to do what ever they can or start to use the movies to build the Marvel people that they can use to make a area. Honestly I would say forget Avatar land (even though its a good fit for Ak) and work more on these others. I think Disney is already working on Star Wars to be honest but I hope its not something they drop the ball and give up on. Just my thoughts... also can we get a Villains land? lol

 

[tjkraz]

They know that Universal is killing it with the "tweens" age group because of Harry Potter.

Depends upon what you mean by "killing it." Does Universal have more attractions which would appeal to tweens? For many, the answer is yes.

Problem is that Hollywood Studios still outdraws Islands of Adventure by 25% and Magic Kingdom's attendance is more than double IOA. Look around WDW and you'll still see plenty of tweens...some dragged along reluctantly as part of a family vacation and others genuinely enjoying themselves.

Bottom line is Disney won't invest the dollars unless there's a clear likelihood of financial return. We cannot simply assume that $500-750 million worth of Star Wars attractions will increase DHS attendance by 2-3 million.

Harry Potter has done an excellent job of boosting attendance at Universal. But so far Disney's numbers aren't dropping. In many ways, competition is good for the entire industry. For every person who is lopping a day off their WDW vacations to visit US/IOA, there appear to be others coming into town specifically for US/IOA who are also visiting the Disney parks.

Sadly, Disney isn't going to spend on major park enhancements just to try and one-up Universal. That was Michael Eisner's SOP...not Bob Iger's.

 

[ChipnDale79]

Depends upon what you mean by "killing it." Does Universal have more attractions which would appeal to tweens? For many, the answer is yes.

Problem is that Hollywood Studios still outdraws Islands of Adventure by 25% and Magic Kingdom's attendance is more than double IOA. Look around WDW and you'll still see plenty of tweens...some dragged along reluctantly as part of a family vacation and others genuinely enjoying themselves.

Bottom line is Disney won't invest the dollars unless there's a clear likelihood of financial return. We cannot simply assume that $500-750 million worth of Star Wars attractions will increase DHS attendance by 2-3 million.

Harry Potter has done an excellent job of boosting attendance at Universal. But so far Disney's numbers aren't dropping. In many ways, competition is good for the entire industry. For every person who is lopping a day off their WDW vacations to visit US/IOA, there appear to be others coming into town specifically for US/IOA who are also visiting the Disney parks.

Sadly, Disney isn't going to spend on major park enhancements just to try and one-up Universal. That was Michael Eisner's SOP...not Bob Iger's.

I'm not disagreeing with you or trying to pick a part your argument, I just wanted to add this to your post.

I don't think attendance is the only that that would justify WDW spending 500-750 million on Star Wars, I think more merchandise would help that. But then again, disney really doesn't have to build anything but a gift shop in order to move more Star Wars gear.

I don't think Disney is worried about attendance anymore, I think they are more worried about how to get more money out of the guests they already have.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I'm not disagreeing with you or trying to pick a part your argument, I just wanted to add this to your post.

I don't think attendance is the only that that would justify WDW spending 500-750 million on Star Wars, I think more merchandise would help that. But then again, disney really doesn't have to build anything but a gift shop in order to move more Star Wars gear.

I don't think Disney is worried about attendance anymore, I think they are more worried about how to get more money out of the guests they already have.

100%

 

[mill4023]

I hate the idea of a Star Wars land at DHS.
But only because I think Star Wars is much bigger than one little land. I know it will probably never happen, but I think Star Wars is perfect for a 5th park. Can you imagine how incredible this could be? I'd call it the Galactic Kingdom and have different lands for different locations from the Star Wars universe. I think it would be hugely popular and would have tremendous lasting power. After all, Star Wars has been incredibly popular for 40 years. I think it would bring millions of visitors to WDW who might otherwise never consider a WDW vacation.

 

[tjkraz]

Shortly after the Lucasfilm purchase, there was rumor/speculation that Disney was considering a premium 5th park which would have featured Star Wars. However, it would have followed the Sea World Discovery Cove model with very limited daily admission and very high prices. (Last time I checked it was around $300 per person for a day a DC.)

I think the concept was something like Jedi training. It would have been very hands-on with fantasy role playing-type elements. Think of the Jedi Training Academy for all ages, spread over a 6-8 hour day.

IF Disney ever builds a "5th park" in Florida, I believe that's the direction they will go--some sort of boutique park. They were on the verge of announcing something along those lines back in 2008 (search for "Night Kingdom"), but abandoned the idea when the recession started pounding everyone. Elements of the Animal Kingdom's Wild Africa Trek (the $200 hands-on tour and lunch in Kilimanjaro Safari) evolved from the Night Kingdom idea.

I agree..Star Wars would make a great concept for a full park. There is still some chance of Disneyland's 3rd park being themed around Star Wars. (Although they have also been working on a Star Wars makeover of DL's Tomorrowland, suggesting that Marvel could eventually get the nod for a full park.)

I just don't think the numbers will ever support building a legitimate 5th park in Florida. Most guests would still take trips of the same duration (a week, or whatever) and simply alter how much time they spend at each park. They would drop a day at MK, Epcot or one of the others in favor of the new destination. The net result is similar crowds & revenues to what Disney has now, while paying operating expenses for yet another destination.

On the other hand, a smaller boutique experience could be much more viable. Less capital investment....less staffing....and very high prices charged for every guest through the gate. That has potential.

 

[mill4023]

I just don't think the numbers will ever support building a legitimate 5th park in Florida. Most guests would still take trips of the same duration (a week, or whatever) and simply alter how much time they spend at each park. They would drop a day at MK, Epcot or one of the others in favor of the new destination. The net result is similar crowds & revenues to what Disney has now, while paying operating expenses for yet another destination.

I agree that most guests would still take trips of the same duration, but I don't think the net result would be similar crowds and revenues. Just look at the attendance boost that Harry Potter brought to Universal. I think a Star Wars park would have even more potential to increase attendance. The increase in revenue would not be due to guests staying longer, it would be due to bringing new guests in.

 

[beer dave]

I agree that most guests would still take trips of the same duration, but I don't think the net result would be similar crowds and revenues. Just look at the attendance boost that Harry Potter brought to Universal. I think a Star Wars park would have even more potential to increase attendance. The increase in revenue would not be due to guests staying longer, it would be due to bringing new guests in.

Agreed. In the 70,s we would spend 5 days to a week at MK alone. Another new destination would bring the people who haven't come in a while. It would increase the ability of the parks to handle the constantly increasing crowds.

Right now I think Disney is working to handle the volumes.

This said, I don't necessarily think they will build one.

 

[Microbe1936]

Visited DHS last night to see the dancing lights. While grabbing a snack for my DDs, I noticed the cups now have the Car Land logo along with other attractions. It can't be long now!

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

 

[tjkraz]

I agree that most guests would still take trips of the same duration, but I don't think the net result would be similar crowds and revenues. Just look at the attendance boost that Harry Potter brought to Universal. I think a Star Wars park would have even more potential to increase attendance. The increase in revenue would not be due to guests staying longer, it would be due to bringing new guests in.

The question is now many new bodies are we talking about?

WDW already has a Star Wars presence. And it has Mickey & Minnie, the Princesses, Pirates of the Caribbean, Aerosmith, animals, Epcot's World Showcase...and much more.

How many people are out there thinking: "Walt Disney World doesn't really have much to offer my family but if they added a full Star Wars theme park, THEN I would be convinced to go."

With regard to Universal and Harry Potter, yes there was a dramatic upturn but US' attendance numbers were always much lower than WDW. Before HP, IOA was drawing less than half the number of guests as Hollywood Studios and about 1/4 as many as the Magic Kingdom.

Several years after WWoHP opened, IOA is still about 25% UNDER Hollywood Studios. There are STILL significantly more people going to WDW's most neglected theme park.

 

[jamrupe71]

I would prefer to keep Carsland in DCA. Mainly to give me a reason to go to California. I would prefer some unique experiences on both coasts.
I would like to see a Star Wars expansion at DHS. I wonder what they would do with the Osbourne lights. If anything happens in DHS the Streets of America and the stunt show are prime real estate that should be demo'ed.

I like the potential that Avatarland could bring. Animal Kingdom is an immersive park already. It could use another big draw attraction though. If Imagineering can pull off what they are proposing it will be great.

Does anyone know the licensing agreement that Universal has with Marvel?

 

[tjkraz]

Visited DHS last night to see the dancing lights. While grabbing a snack for my DDs, I noticed the cups now have the Car Land logo along with other attractions. It can't be long now!

I wouldn't get too excited about that. Disney merchandising has been very sloppy about such things for many years now. Walk into any DL gift shop and I can guarantee you'll find several t-shirt designs with WDW's Cinderella Castle on it. At either park, you'll see designs with the wrong monorail style, attractions only located no the other coast, etc.

They aren't selling Cars Land cups at WDW because Cars Land is opening any time soon. They're selling Cars Land cups at WDW because they want to sell cups at WDW...and they're simply too sloppy/lazy/ambivalent to make modifications to the design.

Does anyone know the licensing agreement that Universal has with Marvel?

Generally speaking, unless Universal opts-out of the agreement or Disney decides to buy them out, don't expect Marvel characters at WDW anytime soon. By all accounts the agreement exists in perpetuity. As long as Universal wishes to continue paying the licensing fees, Disney must honor the agreement.

Only certain character "families" are covered by the agreement, but it's pretty much everyone you would recognize: Avengers, X-Men, Spider Man, Fantastic Four, etc. Main heroes and villains.

There's a chance WDW could someday build around more obscure heroes not included in the US/IOA licensing. Guardians of the Galaxy comes to mind. But those characters would have to develop a significant following before Disney would consider such an investment.

The agreement only covers theme parks east of the Mississippi so adding Marvel to Disneyland is certainly a possibility. There are several other threads here discussing the Marvel contract in great detail if you want to read more.

 

[beer dave]

The question is now many new bodies are we talking about?

WDW already has a Star Wars presence. And it has Mickey & Minnie, the Princesses, Pirates of the Caribbean, Aerosmith, animals, Epcot's World Showcase...and much more.

How many people are out there thinking: "Walt Disney World doesn't really have much to offer my family but if they added a full Star Wars theme park, THEN I would be convinced to go."

With regard to Universal and Harry Potter, yes there was a dramatic upturn but US' attendance numbers were always much lower than WDW. Before HP, IOA was drawing less than half the number of guests as Hollywood Studios and about 1/4 as many as the Magic Kingdom.



Several years after WWoHP opened, IOA is still about 25% UNDER Hollywood Studios. There are STILL significantly more people going to WDW's most neglected theme park.

For the record-- I am not saying they need a star wars park-- just that they could probably increase the general head count by creating more available space I E a new park.

 

[mill4023]

How many people are out there thinking: "Walt Disney World doesn't really have much to offer my family but if they added a full Star Wars theme park, THEN I would be convinced to go."

I think it would be more like: "Whoa, there is going to be a Star Wars theme park? That sounds awesome! We should go. And since we are going to be there, let's stay a few days and check out Disney World too"

I think there are millions of people around the world who are Star Wars fans, but not necessarily Disney fans. I also think there are a lot of people who think their kids have outgrown Disney, so they choose Universal or some other vacation that they think is more appropriate for older kids. Especially families with boys who aren't into Princesses and think Disney is for little kids. And I think there would be a lot more adults without kids who would be more interested in going to Disney World if it had a Star Wars park.