Carseats in the plane?

[pewing]

I am sorry for the 'Oprah' comment

We are all just trying to get through this maze called life with our precious cargo in tow

 

[JennsBabySky]

Wow! Surprised that this thread has taken a turn. I am active in several carseat safety sites and it is my understanding that the FAA is considering making carseats mandatory for young children. Part of the reason they have not done this is that by making it mandatory to purchase a seat for a baby under two, then more people might drive. Yes, statistically cars are more dangerous than flying. So, if more people started to drive, it would actually cause more injuries than those that would be saved by being in carseats on the plane. It comes down to a numbers crunch.

So, if you can afford it, it is safer to use a carseat on the plane. I've flown both ways, but I now only fly with a carseat for my baby. This is both because it is convenient (much easier on a 4 hour flight for baby to sit in the carseat) and safer (my concerns are turbulence and emergency landings). I am not comfortable with using my baby as either my airbag or stowing him as a piece of luggage. Neither of these choices are acceptable to me. Since I can afford the extra seat, we choose to buy the seat. Personally, we budget for this seat just like we do everything else. We've even opted for the infant seat on the plane when we've pinched pennies by having inside staterooms.

 

[LiserAnn]

Some airlines offer infants seat (for 2 and under) at half price. I know American and United offered it a year ago (my son is now 3).

There's been a lot of controversy surrounding safety seats on airplanes and as mentioned before, the FAA has been considering making it mandatory. The airlines oppose it because they're fearful they will lose fliers as opposed to gain revenue for the infants seats. The concern is, a number of families with small children won't take vacations which require air travel if safety seats are required for children under 2. They've done market studies to determine this information. I worked in the aerospace industry for 12 years and heard this topic over and over.

Some may remember the United Airlines flight which crashed (it basically did sommersaults across the runway in a fireball when it crashed) in Sioux City, Iowa about ten years ago, maybe more. There were several infants which were seated in their mothers laps. When it became apparent the plane was going down, the lead flight attendant told those mothers to tightly hold their babies, knowing full well what would happen but those were the "rules" to be given out in an emergency. What ended up happening was because of the G-forces, when the plane hit the ground those babies became literal torpedos and were RIPPED from their mothers arms. One baby was found in the overhead bin, neither baby survived, but both of their mothers did. That flight attendant became an advocate for mandatory safety seats on commerical flights; it has been her quest since the accident. She talked about many times, on routine flights witnessing mothers not being able to hold their babies securely during turbulence. Of course these instances are rare, and few and far between but who wants to chance that?

No it's not a few dollars, it's much more, but it's too great of a chance to risk, in my opinion. My little ones were flying as early as 8 weeks and always had their own paid seats. If we couldn't afford the seat, we didn't take the vacation, it just wasn't worth it to us. In my years of traveling for work and in the industry, I saw and heard one too many stories to dismiss for a few hundred dollars. I just couldn't do it knowing what I know. Yes, it's easy to forgo the seat when you don't know what could happen...as they say "ignorance is bliss", but that doesn't make it safe.

Lisa

 

[disneybride96]

Does anyone live in state where they can put their child in a car without a carseat?

You have to have a car seat here in Indiana now up until age 8. Hey...but you can throw them in the back of a pickup and let them roll around any day of the week. (but you can't buy alcohol on Sundays, so that evens it all out) Ah...the great minds of our elected officials!

 

[ljql_5969]

Just for me personally, I bought the extra seat (or seats once our second DS arrived). Yes it cost money, but I was more comfortable with them in their car seat (as well as my sons). They seemed to rest better in their car seats. And it sat them up higher so they could see more things on the plane and through the windows. And they had their personal space and my DH and I had ours. They had the lap bar (or whatever you want to call it) on the car seat to play with their toys. It was just a win-win for us.

And now that they are older, they love to fly and they know the drill when we get on a plane. Now whether or not that has anything to do with always having their own seat, I don't know.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

My DD's now 6 & 7 are frequent flyers (they are now on some really funny mailing lists). When the oldest was an infant I traveled all the time to my parents from Atlanta to PA. so here is my two cents.

One way to avoid buying the extra seat is to fly at very odd times/days which make it more likely that there will be an empty seat that the attendent will gladly give you to put the infant in a car seat. People are very happy to move to accomadate the infant (read: run like heck to the other side of the plane ). You will not get lucky any time around the holidays.

The children are far more comfortable in the car seat, even at this age. The seats are big and when they nap their head does not slouch down to a funny, uncomfortable angle.

On one trip we did encounter turbulence so sudden and sharp that our heads bounced off the overhead bin and we were buckled in! It would have been a fluke that if one of my kids were in my lap I would have been holding them that tightly to prevent a mishap.

We used a luggage cart and strapped the car seat to the cart and used it like a stroller which worked as long as my DD sat cross legged and not dragging her feet. It was easier to pull than push it.

Anyway. You make the decision. We fly too often to take the chance but once in a lifetime the odds are in your favor, just remember they are odds.

 

[Tara]

As for the argument that if it were so dangerous, then children would be required to be in car seats...


Well, the FAA has studied this extensively, and statistically speaking, requiring the purchase of a ticket for all children would result in MORE child injuries and deaths. Why? Because more people would choose to drive rather than fly due to added expense. Therefore, more children would be in car accidents.

Every person has to make their own decision about buying a seat for an infant. My decision has been to buy. I don't care what others think about that, and I really don't care what others do -- to each her own, right?

 

[pewing]

Okay...okay. All the comments (and horrible stories ) worked. I just canceled my trip to Milwaukee to see my friend. I couldn't justify a second ticket and driving really is not an option for a long weekend visit. Maybe another time

Before I was part of this thread I felt assured that if the airlines would allow me to fly with my baby in my lap that she would be 'safe' (at least as safe as me...not a real fan of flying anyways )

Thankfully we are planning to drive down for our cruise in November...

 

[pewing]

You have to have a car seat here in Indiana now up until age 8. Hey...but you can throw them in the back of a pickup and let them roll around any day of the week. (but you can't buy alcohol on Sundays, so that evens it all out) Ah...the great minds of our elected officials!

Don't feel bad...in Alabama they just passed the 'open container' law. That means that up until now (actually it passed awhile back) you could drive around while drinking your beer!!! But...your child did have to be in a carseat. Thank goodness...since folks are driving around half lit!

 

[safetymom]

All the states have some type of child restraint law. Don't count on any extra seats on planes these days. Most planes are very full since they have cut the number of flights.

 

[tlbwriter]

Let's be honest...besides keeeping you in your seat with turbulence...that seatbelt is not really 'protecting' anyone

It's a common misconception that seatbelts/carseats are not important on airplanes because "if the plane crashes, we'll all die anyway." And that's simply not true. First, because turbulence itself causes injuries on a regular basis. And second, because many crashes *are* survivable.

And as for the airlines not allowing lap babies if it weren't safe... the airlines are all about making money. And they're afraid that if people have to pay to fly with infants, they'll drive instead. Believe me, it's ALL about the bottom line.

Whether to buy a seat for your infant is every parent's own decision to make. But you must at least make an informed decision. To me, holding my child in an airplane is like holding her in a car... it's something that in most cases will go without incident. But if something does happen, I'll have to live with that guilt for the rest of my life. It's not a chance I'm willing to take... especially not for something like a vacation! I can't imagine spending over $1000 to go to WDW and then scrimping on this, kwim?

I'm going to copy here something that I posted to an earlier thread... you might be particularly interested in the part that talks about actual children who died that probably would have survived had they been in carseats:

You should absolutely book him a seat. Here's what the Association of Flight Attendants says about flying with children...

"The Association of Flight Attendants, AFL-CIO, the largest flight attendant union in the United States representing more than 43,000 flight attendants at 27 airlines, strongly supports requiring child restraint seats for the following reasons:

Federal Aviation Regulations (FARs) require flight attendants on commercial flights to protect the safety of passengers. Yet neither flight attendants nor an infant's parents can protect unrestrained infants in the event of an airline accident or severe turbulence. A child on a parent's lap will likely break free from the adult's arms as a plane strikes objects on the ground.

A child that breaks free during a crash faces two serious hazards. First, the child may be injured as she/he strikes the aircraft interior. Second, the parents may not be able to find the infant after the crash. This is what happened in the United/Sioux City, Iowa crash. On impact, no parent was able to hold on to her/his child. One child was killed when he flew from his mother’s hold. Another child was rescued from an overhead compartment by a stranger.

In July, 1994 during the fatal crash of a USAir plane in Charlotte, North Carolina, another unrestrained infant was killed when her mother could not hold onto her on impact. The available seat next to the mother survived the crash intact. The National Transportation Safety Board believes that had the baby been secured in that seat, she would have been alive today. In fact, in a FAA study on accident survivability, the agency found that of the last nine infant deaths, five could have survived had they been in child restraint devices. (emphasis mine... many people believe restraints don't matter because "if the plane crashes, we'll all die anyway," but that is NOT true.)

Turbulence is also a serious problem for unrestrained infants. In daily occurrences, children on their parents’ laps sustain injuries when they are thrown about in turbulence. In one of these, a flight attendant reported that a lap baby, who was walking down the aisle when the turbulence occurred, went flying through the cabin and was caught by another passenger. (emphasis mine... again, there's more to worry about than just a crash, and turbulence happens every day.)

This measure is endorsed by the White House Commission on Aviation Safety and Security, National Transportation Safety Board and the Aviation Consumer Action Project.

Far too many unrestrained children have been killed during crashes or injured during turbulence. Parents must learn that when children under the age of two sit on their laps, they are more at risk than any other passenger restrained in her/his own seat. Senator Patty Murray (D-WA) and Representatives Peter DeFazio (D-OR) and Chris Shays (R-CT) have re- introduced legislation (S. 398/H.R. 754) which would mandate the use of child restraint seats for children under two. The Association of Flight Attendants, AFL-CIO, knows there is only one safe way to fly for children under two and strongly supports mandating the use of child restraint seats for our youngest travelers."

Also, young children are generally more comfortable and have an easier flight if they are in the familiar setting of their carseat. Here's what the CPSafety.org website says about it:

"Convenience: Your child should be used to sitting in their car seat every time they are in the car. An airplane ride should be no different. It may even be easier. A lap child will not understand the need to stay in your lap and may want to get down and run around the passenger cabin. Not only does this pose a risk to your child, but it can be a hazard to other passengers and flight attendants who need to go down the narrow aisle. While it will be difficult to hang on to a child who is squirmy and cranky in your lap, it may be very easy to entertain a child in their comfortable, familiar car seat. Many children also fall asleep in their car seat, making the trip more pleasant for parents and passengers alike.

- Child Safety Seat Issues: The best way to get a child to happily use a car seat is to use it all the time, every time. Make no exceptions. If the child isn't buckled in, the car doesn't go. Using a car seat on an airplane only serves to reinforce the "no exceptions" policy. And since a child who has used a car seat all the time, every time, since day one is used to being in it, they won't notice any difference on an airplane (and may travel better than a baby who's suddenly forced to stay on your lap)"

 

[CarolA]

I will always remember an interview with a Flight Attendant. This was after a crash where the majority of the passengers walked away due to the skill of thier pilot! The instructions are to place lap child on the floor and hold them between your legs. Of course what happened? The child became a human bullet speeding back through the plane. By the grace of God the child survived but the FA said she felt such horrid guilt asking someone to place thier child there. They will NOT let you hold the child on your lap in the event of an emergency landing as that is even more dangerous.

 

[CarolA]

Some may remember the United Airlines flight which crashed (it basically did sommersaults across the runway in a fireball when it crashed) in Sioux City, Iowa about ten years ago, maybe more. There were several infants which were seated in their mothers laps. When it became apparent the plane was going down, the lead flight attendant told those mothers to tightly hold their babies, knowing full well what would happen but those were the "rules" to be given out in an emergency. What ended up happening was because of the G-forces, when the plane hit the ground those babies became literal torpedos and were RIPPED from their mothers arms. One baby was found in the overhead bin, neither baby survived, but both of their mothers did. That flight attendant became an advocate for mandatory safety seats on commerical flights; it has been her quest since the accident. She talked about many times, on routine flights witnessing mothers not being able to hold their babies securely during turbulence. Of course these instances are rare, and few and far between but who wants to chance that?


Lisa

I remember this one well.... The FA for several years was very active on the speaking circuit. Haven't seen her in a while, but... it stuck with me.

If you are flying out of Atlanta today for example with Hurricane Dennis remains just passing there will be turbulence and it can be strong.

I never fly without my seat belt fastened. I have seen too many folks with injuries from bouncing up and down in turbulence.

 

[KarenP99]

They will NOT let you hold the child on your lap in the event of an emergency landing as that is even more dangerous.

I know they can be strict, but if it were me (especially after reading what you wrote), I would probably be holding/hugging my lap child with all my might. Even though it's against the "rules", what would the airline possibly do?

 

[tlbwriter]

I know they can be strict, but if it were me (especially after reading what you wrote), I would probably be holding/hugging my lap child with all my might. Even though it's against the "rules", what would the airline possibly do?

Were you aware that if you *did* somehow manage to hold onto your child, he/she would probably serve as an airbag for you?

 

[CarolA]

I know they can be strict, but if it were me (especially after reading what you wrote), I would probably be holding/hugging my lap child with all my might. Even though it's against the "rules", what would the airline possibly do?

Strict is not the word, they stand over you SCREAMING at you to do what they tell you. I have read stories of them basically shoving folks into the correct position. And to be honest, this is NOT the time to do nice customer service LOL!

 

[KarenP99]

woah, woah, woah...My point was, that given the 2 options (neither of which are favorable for the child), I would hold my kid. In that situation (possibly end of life) The flight attendant could scream all they want, they won't dictate how I handle an already bad situation.

Obviously the safest place would be in a car seat.

 

[tlbwriter]

woah, woah, woah...My point was, that given the 2 options (neither of which are favorable for the child), I would hold my kid. In that situation (possibly end of life) The flight attendant could scream all they want, they won't dictate how I handle an already bad situation.

I don't know... they're trained to handle people who refuse to follow instructions... they may have "methods" we don't know about.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out, for folks who don't realize it, that holding onto your child (in a car OR airplane) is dangerous not only because you probably won't be able to keep your grip, but because the child is likely to be seriously hurt or killed even if you *can* hold on.

 

[Pinnie]

I can speak for an experience I witnessed on a very bumpy flight from BNA - MCO a couple of months ago. We encountered some bad turbulance and an unrestrained lap child smacked his head really hard on a tray table while he was on his mom's lap. He raised a decent sized goose egg/cut. Had that child been in a car seat, it wouldn't have happened.

pinnie

 

[Stimpy]

Anyway, I just wanted to point out, for folks who don't realize it, that holding onto your child (in a car OR airplane) is dangerous not only because you probably won't be able to keep your grip, but because the child is likely to be seriously hurt or killed even if you *can* hold on.

Exactly! It's the law of physics.....IF you can hold on, the baby will have all your weight smashing him/her into the seat in front of you, magnified by the speed of the plane. If you think a baby can withstand that and be uninjured or killed, you must have a superbaby.

If, God forbid, we are ever in a emergency situation in a plane, I want to know I did everything I can to protect my children. I also want to know that they are right there next to me.....not thrown 10 aisles away from me.

BTW, for those willing to fight with the FA, do you think you might be putting their lives in even more jeopardy? Rather than buckling and securing themselves, they have to stand and argue with you? One of the reasons they are telling you to put the baby on the floor, is for the safety of others. The baby sitting on your lap WILL become a projectile and will probably seriously hurt or kill another passenger.