Carnival Liberty engine room fire

[C6PT7]

My friend I am not talking fires only. but lets look..........the Splendor and Triumph came with in a air breath of going wild. Hell the Splendor didn't even have the right manuals to operate the suppression systems. I was in Miami when the Ecstasy burned the passengers were watching the stern of their ship burning on the news and the Captain was telling the USCG (who was watching the fire), saying his ship
was not burning.

Don't forget legend and Dream engine breakdowns that required the passengers to leave and or the ships limp home.

My understanding the Liberty has had past problems as well. Now it seems she had a severe engine fire.

Don't forget the Tropicana.

Now the other issues, the faulty design of some of their ships. the entire Destiny class having major mechanical issues, many ships had no redundancy in safety systems, many of which are slowly being added in the yards...........add the Costa Millimimun fire that sent her to the scrap yard.

There are repeated reports of the Carnival vessels built for Carnival line at Fincantieri have electrical problems.

and lets not forget the Costa Concordia....33 lives lost..........all because of the playboy captain and the office staff who delayed action trying to protect Carnival Inc. 5 have been given prison sentences.


And that is all I can remember on the top of my mind


Yes, RCCL, but to my knowledge those were all minor and the Grandeur was a cigarette fire , by a passenger that threw it over the stern and it blew back onto the aft deck. The enchantment was due to a light bulb burning a life preserver. the Majesty and allure were minor engine room fire and they continued on the voyages.

Disney has had 2 minor fires, 1 was a closet fire and the other on the Magic was a insulation smoky fire in the aft stack. The insulation over heated and never did more the spark with minor fire and distort the thin sheet metal outer shell and then she was on her way.


Seems to me there really is no comparisons......the magnitude of the incidents on Carnival highly out weights all the others.


AKK

@Tonka's Skipper I am not in anyway defending Carnival. If I were, I would have omitted the location of the fires for both them to mask where.
It was just a count, and obviously does not take into account the severity of the damage caused or whether the vessel was able to recover and continue sailing. I also only looked at the past 20 years as that was the closest I could within the time frame Disney have been operating.
I personally think Carnival have been very slow to upgrade their vessels after a fault in there design is found, and PR is probably the main reason they have done so. They appear to be more reactive than proactive, and slow at that. Also they could do with an imagineer to at least mask the back up ten set's in some way
With regards to the design of there ships, I heard about the class certification? and insurers. Why would they sign off a vessel with obvious design faults? Why did the USCG not pick up that the wrong manual was on the ship, and they crew did not know how to operate the fire suppression system? I would have thought that would be something they would want to see demonstrated (obviously not to full operation of the system)?
The Magic and Wonder were built at Fincantieri also, and have also had electrical failures that have left them at sea, without power, until they could restart or fix the problem? I've not read about the closet fire, only the stack fire that melted the funnel outer shell and burnt the stacks down. I've seen the photos on CC, and that cannot just be sparks and insulation! They also had a fire on the Aft deck near the buffet when a firework did not launch properly according to cruisejunkie.com.
As @ilovetexas said, Carnival seem to have more engine room fires than other lines, but a fire is a fire. Why are they certified to sail if they are so prone to mishaps and poor design?

 

[truck1]

@truck1 , presumably the CO2 would be liquified to maximize storage? If CO2 were being pumped aboard, you would see ice on the pipes and some vapor? And two trucks worth? Thats a hell of a lot of CO2!
I would think it is potable water since the mains haven't been running, no flash/reverse osmosis facilities and as the ship is operational, possibly off loading black water as well?
EDITED.

Found another post later about the trucks. They were taking fuel off to balance the fuel load due to 1 main being in op due to the fire and the 2nd in op due to its proximity to the fire affected main.

 

[C6PT7]

Found another post later about the trucks. They were taking fuel off to balance the fuel load due to 1 main being in op due to the fire and the 2nd in op due to its proximity to the fire affected main.

That makes sense. Down to 3 engines though. Sounds like she is in worse shape than originally thought

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

@Tonka's Skipper I am not in anyway defending Carnival. If I were, I would have omitted the location of the fires for both them to mask where.
It was just a count, and obviously does not take into account the severity of the damage caused or whether the vessel was able to recover and continue sailing. I also only looked at the past 20 years as that was the closest I could within the time frame Disney have been operating.
I personally think Carnival have been very slow to upgrade their vessels after a fault in there design is found, and PR is probably the main reason they have done so. They appear to be more reactive than proactive, and slow at that. Also they could do with an imagineer to at least mask the back up ten set's in some way
With regards to the design of there ships, I heard about the class certification? and insurers. Why would they sign off a vessel with obvious design faults? Why did the USCG not pick up that the wrong manual was on the ship, and they crew did not know how to operate the fire suppression system? I would have thought that would be something they would want to see demonstrated (obviously not to full operation of the system)?
The Magic and Wonder were built at Fincantieri also, and have also had electrical failures that have left them at sea, without power, until they could restart or fix the problem? I've not read about the closet fire, only the stack fire that melted the funnel outer shell and burnt the stacks down. I've seen the photos on CC, and that cannot just be sparks and insulation! They also had a fire on the Aft deck near the buffet when a firework did not launch properly according to cruisejunkie.com.
As @ilovetexas said, Carnival seem to have more engine room fires than other lines, but a fire is a fire. Why are they certified to sail if they are so prone to mishaps and poor design?

Carnival in my opinion has been the big he Bull as they say. You asked why did they get class ok and still have problems that was showing up now? I have asked myself that......part of it is you go to a house builder and say build me a house but I only want to spend XXX amount. So the builder builds a house that meets code...........just barely so its legal . Or maybe being the big he bull , carnival had influence with class.????...in this case Lloyds Registry. I don't have proof, but the manual issue was one of the things in the USCG report that blasted carnival six ways to Sunday about. Another odd thing, those USCG reports on the Splendor, to my knowledge, were supposed to be on the flag state registry, in this case Panama, yet I never found one. Take 50 to 60 or however many Panama registry vessel Carnival Inc has, and swing them to another country.....that a lot of lost funds for Panama.

Disney did get the MGIC and WONDER from Fincantieri but Disney wanted better vessels and obviously got them. Plus Fincantierre wanted to build the first Disney ships. Every vessel at sea, every now and then has a electrical problem, the ones Disney has had were minor and short and then they were on their way. As to the stack fire , ask ext echie he will tell you about the stack...it really was nothing. it looked bad but that was fiberglass and thin sheet metal.

Back to the he bull.......

I wonder why they towed the Splendor into San Diego with the passengers onboard and not go into Mexico, which was 1 day away.....what if a storm came up??? Why did the captain of the Concordia spend a hour on the phone with the Costa office before he finally ordered everyone to the muster stations?...if he had a lot few people would have downed........I have no proof, but I bet the Costa office was on the phone to Carnival Inc.!


C6PT&, I look at all I listed with Carnival Inc. and I see a Company that has gotten away with things for years and its catching up with them. It scares me.

However, my friend I don't have all the answers, hell I don't even have most of the questions!


AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

That makes sense. Down to 3 engines though. Sounds like she is in worse shape than originally thought

How many trucks?...and seems they could just as easily shifted some fresh water to trim her?


AKK

 

[truck1]

How many trucks?...and seems they could just as easily shifted some fresh water to trim her?


AKK

There are 2 confirmed but if they just pulled fuel from 1 bunker and redeposited it into another it might make sense. Or more could have come in later or multiple trips......

 

[truck1]

That makes sense. Down to 3 engines though. Sounds like she is in worse shape than originally thought

Not really. She has 4 availae, but 1 of the 4 is down as a precaution not necessarily due to damage.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

There are 2 confirmed but if they just pulled fuel from 1 bunker and redeposited it into another it might make sense. Or more could have come in later or multiple trips......

Truck, everything you said is possible!........I was thinking just taking 2 truck loads of fuel off the ship was not a lot of tonnage to trim the ship with. Of course we don't know how many tanks the liberty has or where they are.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

This is when I wish we had Chief75 here, he is a Chief Engineer.


AKK

 

[C6PT7]

Well these passengers certainly were having a worse day on there transportation

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/national/reports-british-airways-passenger-plane-fire-mccar/nnbDt/

 

[S. C.]

Well these passengers certainly were having a worse day on there transportation

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/national/reports-british-airways-passenger-plane-fire-mccar/nnbDt/

That must of also been scary.

 

[truck1]

I wonder why they towed the Splendor into San Diego with the passengers onboard and not go into Mexico, which was 1 day away.....what if a storm came up???

AKK

She went to SD because there was more transportation and hotel options. Plus it was easier to get everyone around the border crossing.

 

[niccikatie]

They're flying them all home...

Originally Posted by pauleydm
We will not be traveling to San Juan. Guests will be sent home via St Thomas airport.

 

[SuperDry]

I think that one of the reasons Disney ships tend to have less incidents is that Disney is willing to invest more in the ships. For example, on the newer ships, the two independent engine rooms and electrical switchboards allow one room to be completely taken out of service (due to a fire or whatnot) and still be able to propel the ship. Although there's never been an engine room fire of that magnitude on a Disney vessel, if there were to be one, it ostensibly would not strand the ship dead in the water like happened on the Carnival ship a few years ago. Perhaps not required by naval code, but worth the extra investment to Disney.

I think the biggest reason this is true is because of the premium prices that Disney charges. They could certainly get away with skimping on such things, keep the prices the same, and make even more money than they do already - that is, until the first high-profile accident. Such an accident could have significant affects on bookings, requiring prices to be lowered in order to keep the cabins full. Carnival is in a completely different situation: they are the "value" cruise line, known for being among the cheapest. For the most part, people are choosing Carnival because it's the cheapest option. This continues to be true even after one of their ships had a fire and was floating without power for a few days. It's kind of like people that fly once a year and buy airline tickets based on lowest price: they may have a bad experience and vow to "never fly XYZ carrier again!", but very often, next year, if that carrier is still the cheapest, the memory of the bad experience fades and they fly them again.

 

[SuperDry]

Carnival was very lucky this time as to when and where the fire occurred. Instead of being stranded at sea, they were in port in USVI:

All hotel services including air conditioning, elevators, toilets, galleys, etc. are fully functional and the ship's normal array of activities, entertainment, dining options and programming are being offered.

Well, yes. In most ports, the ship's hotel services run on power provided by the land-based power grid, which is cheaper than continuing to run the on-board engines, and also cuts down on pollution. I can't say for sure if this is the case in St. Thomas, but I would guess that it would be, unless the ship was anchored offshore in a tendering position.

arrangements to fly all guests home from St. Thomas.

Another lucky break. Unlike Puerto Rico, USVI is outside of the main US customs and immigration zone, thus requiring air passengers to pass through US Customs and Immigration inspection when traveling to the mainland US or Puerto Rico. But, since it's also a US territory, US citizens only need photo ID to do so. Not even a birth certificate is required. Had this happened in a foreign port, arrangements would have been much more complex for the undoubtedly-many passengers that are US citizens but traveling on a birth certificate. I don't know if DHS would grant special dispensation in such a situation, or if they would just gear up the nearest US embassy/consulate to issue temporary travel documents to those without passports. Any way that would be handled would be far more problematic than the situation in St. Thomas.

 

[SuperDry]

@Tonka's Skipper
To answer your question from the CC board, here is one of the back up gen sets

[/URL][/IMG]

Ah, that's what those things are! I've only viewed them from across a port, while on board a Disney vessel. I had (wrongly) assumed that they were some sort of temporary construction storage unit for some renovations that were happening on board at the moment. This makes more sense. But I will continue in the future with the same reaction I've had in the past while departing on a Disney ship and seeing such a thing on the nearby Carnival ship: shouting "BAD SHOW!" while tipping my sail-away beverage in their direction.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

She went to SD because there was more transportation and hotel options. Plus it was easier to get everyone around the border crossing.

That was the official statement yes..........more to the point,it saved Carnival a lot of money.

AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I think that one of the reasons Disney ships tend to have less incidents is that Disney is willing to invest more in the ships. For example, on the newer ships, the two independent engine rooms and electrical switchboards allow one room to be completely taken out of service (due to a fire or whatnot) and still be able to propel the ship. Although there's never been an engine room fire of that magnitude on a Disney vessel, if there were to be one, it ostensibly would not strand the ship dead in the water like happened on the Carnival ship a few years ago. Perhaps not required by naval code, but worth the extra investment to Disney.

I think the biggest reason this is true is because of the premium prices that Disney charges. They could certainly get away with skimping on such things, keep the prices the same, and make even more money than they do already - that is, until the first high-profile accident. Such an accident could have significant affects on bookings, requiring prices to be lowered in order to keep the cabins full. Carnival is in a completely different situation: they are the "value" cruise line, known for being among the cheapest. For the most part, people are choosing Carnival because it's the cheapest option. This continues to be true even after one of their ships had a fire and was floating without power for a few days. It's kind of like people that fly once a year and buy airline tickets based on lowest price: they may have a bad experience and vow to "never fly XYZ carrier again!", but very often, next year, if that carrier is still the cheapest, the memory of the bad experience fades and they fly them again.

Actually 2 ships, the Splendor and the Triumph and that was just the recent ones....


As to DCL.......yes they have well designed vessels and the best of cruise ship crews and the true be known, along with other lines, likely a bit of luck as well.


AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Truck, C6PT7, it will be interesting to see if the Liberty runs on her own to a shipyard or a port of call for repairs or is towed.



Seems the damages are much more then originally expected, which as I noted before is not unusual in a ship fire.


AKK

 

[truck1]

Truck, C6PT7, it will be interesting to see if the Liberty runs on her own to a shipyard or a port of call for repairs or is towed.



Seems the damages are much more then originally expected, which as I noted before is not unusual in a ship fire.


AKK

Either that or there's no safety margin where if they lose another main there's no back up. Similar to what happened last time in St Maarten.