Car seat hysteria?

[Tigger&Belle]

Why would you return the cart to the corral, don't you know that by doing that you are depriving a lot of people.

Psssst, Steph, I think we found our person to start the thread about returning the carts to the cart corral! I'd forgotten what a troublemaker merle is....

 

[ChrisnSteph]

Psssst, Steph, I think we found our person to start the thread about returning the carts to the cart corral! I'd forgotten what a troublemaker merle is....

I think you're right. I second the nominations for Lisa Loves Pooh (grocery store eating) and Bigmerle (carts and cart corrals)! I'd start the theads myself, but I'm such a big chicken.

 

[jodifla]

I have mixed feelings on this. In an ideal world, we wouldn't need these laws and rules because everyone would just do the right thing. But in the real world, it just doesn't work that way. People don't do the right thing. They don't take the time to research what is safe, what is healthy, what is appropriate at any given age. The laws provide much-needed guidance. Whether you agree with the law or not, it sets out a clear guideline and imparts punishment on those who choose not to follow it. I think we, as a society, have a responsibility to protect those who are unable to protect themselves: children. Even if the ones we are protecting them from are their parents. So I think these laws do more good than harm. Some parents - particularly the responsible ones - may feel the laws are intrusive. But those aren't the ones the laws were created for. I do the right thing because its the right thing, not because the law says I'm supposed to. But many others wouldn't do it if it wasn't required by law. These laws save lives. I don't have a problem with that.

But following that logic, we wouldn't let parents have kids if the didn't have health insurance or if they lived in the poor part of town. Those things are just as hazardous to your health. But states don't care, because that would cost them money to fix.

And on the car seat issue, what's the right thing? 4/40, 6/60 8/80? Or 12? Or 14? Or maybe you NEVER let a person drive or sit in the front seat, because, hey, they just aren't heavey or tall enough.

The simple truth is that the lobbying groups who control the political process in this country have taken over, and they've passed these laws, often accompanied by parents who've lost their kids and feel guilty. No one wants to go against them because they don't want to be seen as anti child or horrible parents.

When I called about six years ago to complain when Florida was thinking about keeping kids in car seats until 8 years old, I was told there was no way it was going to pass, because of the tourism industry. Having every family who flew in have to have boosters/car seats would keep people away.

 

[Tigger&Belle]

I think you're right. I second the nominations for Lisa Loves Pooh (grocery store eating) and Bigmerle (carts and cart corrals)! I'd start the theads myself, but I'm such a big chicken.

I'm anything but a chicken, but I think that perhaps people are starting to expect trouble out of me... , with a bit of snarkiness thrown in for good measure, so I realize that I have to spread it around a bit.

OK, back to the regularly scheduled programing.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I think you're right. I second the nominations for Lisa Loves Pooh (grocery store eating) and Bigmerle (carts and cart corrals)! I'd start the theads myself, but I'm such a big chicken.

Nooooooooo.

I've learned my lesson.


Yep.


Cart goes in cart corral. Keep the kids seat belted. Just don't leave them in the cart corral with the cart. But that would be an enticement to return the cart.

 

[bigmerle1966]

I may be a trouble maker but no way in he double hockey sticks am I starting a thread like that.

Trouble maker, yes. Stupid, no.

 

[mickeyminnie]

Honestly it is height that is the real kicker, 4 ft 9 inches is pretty much the accepted height among experts for a seatbelt to fit correctly. But how many parents are going to measure and keep measuring until their child fits that guide, how is law enforcement going to enforce that. It is much easier to give an age as a guide line, easy to check, easy to ask and watch for, easy to remember, the weight is thrown in because of the way seats are sized, there are some seats that are outgrown at 80 pounds. I don't expect a law enforcement officer to get out a scale and weigh a kid, but they can ask the kid their age pretty easily. As I am sure you know there can be a huge discrepancy of height at any given weight and an expert will tell you height is the most important factor not weight.

And yes the seat belts do not fit some adults and they are at risk for more severe injuries as a result. Seat belts will not be changed by the car manufactures until they are pressured to do so by public opinion or by the government, look at the way air bags have been changed since they were introduced. Part of the reason is the requirements of safety testing, what size crash dummy are they required to use? Are they required to use more than one size? In what seating locations are they tested, at what speeds, does it really mimic real life situtations? Those are questions we should get the answers to, but how often does that information come along with the 5 star ratings?

I understand parents not wanting more rules put upon them for the way they care for their kids. But the kids don't have a say, it is the parents that control this stuff. Luckily most parents who choose to take their kids out of safety seats before the recommended times get away with it, but there are always some who don't and they sometimes pay the ultimate price. I am personally unwilling to take the gamble and I will continue to try and educate parents on the value of safety seat use and how to tell when a seat belt fits properly.

 

[mickeyminnie]

1-child sits back to back, and seat to seat.

2-knees bend over the seat edge (otherwise they slouch to that postition)

3-lap belt portion rides over the top of thighs/hips, not up on the abdomen

4-shoulder belt hits mid chest and mid way along the shoulder, not up on the neck

5-the child will stay in this position the entire ride

If all 5 of these apply then you can be reasonable sure that the child is big enough for the seat belt. No back booster seats bring the child up and keep the belts in the proper position, they are almost undectable from outside the car and different ones have differing padding and seat shapes, usually one can be found that is comfortable for the child.

Seat belts are pre-crash position dependant on how they function. During a crash the seatbelt is aggressively retracted by the mechanism, if it is over soft tissue it will continue to retract possibly causing internal injuries to the tissue underneath it. Young children don't have the hip structure to handle these forces, babies don't have the bone structure or muscle strength to handle them (that is why they ride backwards)

 

[disneysteve]

But following that logic, we wouldn't let parents have kids if the didn't have health insurance or if they lived in the poor part of town. Those things are just as hazardous to your health. But states don't care, because that would cost them money to fix.

And on the car seat issue, what's the right thing?

That's why I said I had mixed feelings on the issue. There are a lot of laws that aren't perfect, but I still tend to think we are better with them than without them.

OT, but since you mentioned it, I work in a very poor area and I could count on my fingers the number of uninsured children I have in my practice. The state Medicaid program covers virtually everyone whose family isn't otherwise insured.

 

[jodifla]

1-child sits back to back, and seat to seat.

2-knees bend over the seat edge (otherwise they slouch to that postition)

3-lap belt portion rides over the top of thighs/hips, not up on the abdomen

4-shoulder belt hits mid chest and mid way along the shoulder, not up on the neck

5-the child will stay in this position the entire ride

If all 5 of these apply then you can be reasonable sure that the child is big enough for the seat belt. No back booster seats bring the child up and keep the belts in the proper position, they are almost undectable from outside the car and different ones have differing padding and seat shapes, usually one can be found that is comfortable for the child.

Seat belts are pre-crash position dependant on how they function. During a crash the seatbelt is aggressively retracted by the mechanism, if it is over soft tissue it will continue to retract possibly causing internal injuries to the tissue underneath it. Young children don't have the hip structure to handle these forces, babies don't have the bone structure or muscle strength to handle them (that is why they ride backwards)

But when my DS falls asleep, he slumps over forward and out of the booster seat (but still in the seatbelt). My DH says he looks like one of these parachuters who gets caught and hung up in the trees. Doesn't look safe to me...or comfortable.

I'd just rather lie him down in the back seat with a pillow and a blanket, like I used to do.

 

[mickeyminnie]

If you have locking seat belts sometimes locking the seat belt back will help with the slump. No system is perfect, we have to do the best we can with the current equipment.

 

[grlpwrd]

Anton Skeen ring a bell? He was the 4yo from Walla Walla, WA who died in a vehicle rollover accident after sliding out from under a rear seat safety belt. The Anton Skeen Act was advocated by his mother in WA and then ultimately became law.

If we can save one child from that same fate than it's all worth it...

 

[jodifla]

Anton Skeen ring a bell? He was the 4yo from Walla Walla, WA who died in a vehicle rollover accident after sliding out from under a rear seat safety belt. The Anton Skeen Act was advocated by his mother in WA and then ultimately became law.

If we can save one child from that same fate than it's all worth it...

Then by your logic, having an SUV prone to auto rollover is akin to not strapping in your child. After all, that's not really safe either, is it?

 

[DisneyPhD]

Just a couple days ago we were in the grocery store, and our son was really tired and grumpy. He's my kid that when his blood sugar gets low, he's impossible! My dh decided to perk him up with his favorite treat, a donut, which we intended on paying for when we checked out. It perked our son right up, but we totally forgot to pay for it when we checked out! So we went back inside, showed the cashier our son with his chocolate covered face (sprinkles on his cheeks and all) and the empty wrapper. The manager wouldn't let us pay for it because "your son is just too darn adorable!" He told us not to worry about it, and have a nice day. But we did return the cart to the front of the store, so we can't be all THAT bad.

Too funny!

 

[disneysteve]

Then by your logic, having an SUV prone to auto rollover is akin to not strapping in your child. After all, that's not really safe either, is it?

There is a fundamental difference between an adult participating in a risky activity and a parent putting a child in a risky situation. The adult has a choice. The child does not.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

But when my DS falls asleep, he slumps over forward and out of the booster seat (but still in the seatbelt). My DH says he looks like one of these parachuters who gets caught and hung up in the trees. Doesn't look safe to me...or comfortable.

I'd just rather lie him down in the back seat with a pillow and a blanket, like I used to do.

I was advised when I purchased it to retract the belt myself.

I have yet to find documentation that supports or condemn this act, so I continue to do it. I mentioned it on another discussion of this topicand noone had found it.

Salesperson had attended a safety training and this is what she was told.

My daughter has yet to slump in a seat. And we have been in one auto accident (very hard bump--but relatively minor accident).

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Then by your logic, having an SUV prone to auto rollover is akin to not strapping in your child. After all, that's not really safe either, is it?

The rollover didn't kill him--the improperly fitting seatbelt did.

 

[jodifla]

I was advised when I purchased it to retract the belt myself.

I have yet to find documentation that supports or condemn this act, so I continue to do it. I mentioned it on another discussion of this topicand noone had found it.

Salesperson had attended a safety training and this is what she was told.

My daughter has yet to slump in a seat. And we have been in one auto accident (very hard bump--but relatively minor accident).

There's no way for me to retract it....I'm in the front seat, and he's in the back, way out of my reach. My belts don't seem to lock unless my brakes are on.

 

[jodifla]

There is a fundamental difference between an adult participating in a risky activity and a parent putting a child in a risky situation. The adult has a choice. The child does not.

Exactly. Children don't buy SUVs that roll over and put them in danger..adults do. And they choose to take that risk, even though there are probably safer cars out there to put their kids in.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

There's no way for me to retract it....I'm in the front seat, and he's in the back, way out of my reach. My belts don't seem to lock unless my brakes are on.

oh--my hubby's car is like that.

My van will let me do that. I retract it when I belt her in. She is learning to belt herself (I still check it as she's still young) and knows to do that.