Car Dealership Vent

[Arielle22]

Was the original car new? I ask because now that you have returned it, the dealership may not be able to sell it as new. It may need to be sold as a demo.

I worked in a dealership in HR for 7 years. This type of mistake isn't common but does happen. My dealership would FedEx forms to be signed if there was an error.

However, if a customer tried to ignore us or stonewall us, we would turn it over to our lawyer. Very infrequently the problem made its way to court where we did not lose.

 

[OklahomaTourist]

Based on info from the OP, it doesn't sound like bait and switch, I think it's just as simple as it sounds, a mistake. It would be too costly for the dealer and what can they gain? A few hundred more, totally not worth it.

No offense, but if you don't think a dealership will fight to get "a few hundred more," then I have to infer that you've not dealt with many car dealerships.

A couple of digits "switched" on a VIN that just happen to match a more expensive vehicle that just happens to be in the dealer's inventory, that they just happened to get a few more $$ from the customer to accept.

Yeah, total mistake.

If you had any idea the depths to which dealerships will sink to get "a few hundred more," you'd shatter any illusions that this was anything but a mistake.

Oh, well, it's over and done with. The OP has a car, they're happy, regardless of the mechanism, and I'm entirely sure the dealership is happy.

This one is water under the bridge.

 

[goofyredraider]

No offense, but if you don't think a dealership will fight to get "a few hundred more," then I have to infer that you've not dealt with many car dealerships.

A couple of digits "switched" on a VIN that just happen to match a more expensive vehicle that just happens to be in the dealer's inventory, that they just happened to get a few more $$ from the customer to accept.

Yeah, total mistake.

If you had any idea the depths to which dealerships will sink to get "a few hundred more," you'd shatter any illusions that this was anything but a mistake.

Oh, well, it's over and done with. The OP has a car, they're happy, regardless of the mechanism, and I'm entirely sure the dealership is happy.

This one is water under the bridge.

Op was one one who approached the dealership about possibly getting the more expensive model- the dealership didn't solicit it....they wanted to correct the paperwork. It was OP's idea.

Everything isn't always a conspiracy in life...or in buying cars.

 

[bumbershoot]

Op was one one who approached the dealership about possibly getting the more expensive model- the dealership didn't solicit it....they wanted to correct the paperwork. It was OP's idea.

Everything isn't always a conspiracy in life...or in buying cars.

And every car dealership isn't sweetness and light. My husband, who worked as a car salesman, jumped immediately to this being a very clever way for the dealership to sell a more expensive car. And he noted that the OP had paperwork saying they owned the more expensive car, so they could go demand it. He actually suggested taking the paperwork to the sheriff and bringing the sheriff along with them to get the car the paperwork said they owned. I was on a phone keyboard at the time, and didn' treally think anyone would want to do that (especially after confessing the issue in public) so I didn't say it then.

DH lasted less than a month at the dealership because *what this dealership may have done is EXACTLY what his dealership did on a regular basis*. They "messed up" paperwork on accident ALL the time, because this is exactly what happens. The buyer thinks "it's just a little more, we'll just get the more expensive car". And now the dealership has made more money.

His brother worked at the same dealership as a mechanic, and the same lies happened there, too. My BIL left, too.

DH later worked for a Saturn dealership as the service writer, and he kept that part of the dealership 100% honest, and also managed to make it the highest money-making shop in the area. Seems that when customers know you're not ripping them off, you get more customers, which brings in more money. He got in trouble all the time by the higherups, but he had the proof in the finances. Once he left the profits fell because his successor was less honest and lost tons of customers.

At the first dealership and in dealings with car salesmen acquaintances, he saw and heard of this bait and switch (in the guise of a mistake) made ALL the time.

Based on info from the OP, it doesn't sound like bait and switch, I think it's just as simple as it sounds, a mistake. It would be too costly for the dealer and what can they gain? A few hundred more, totally not worth it.

A few hundred. Plus, what, 3?5? how many years of interest? And a higher end car sold just at the end of the month. How convenient. With the purchaser thinking they got a great deal for just a little hassle. Such a win-win for that dealership.

 

[OklahomaTourist]

Op was one one who approached the dealership about possibly getting the more expensive model- the dealership didn't solicit it....they wanted to correct the paperwork. It was OP's idea.

Everything isn't always a conspiracy in life...or in buying cars.

Per the OP, the dealership called the OP about the "mistake" initially, and they had a 90% bet that the customer would respond exactly as they did.

This has absolutely nothing to do with "conspiracies." Has everything to do with the modus operandi for car dealerships going back decades about maximizing profit from every aspect of a sale - some ethical, some not. The overwhelming probability IMHO is that this was not a mistake, and the result was exactly what the dealer wanted - they made more money. Could the dealership have legitimately made a typographical error on the sales contract? Of course they could. That's the dealership's out for "plausible deniability." Do I believe they did? No.

The OP provided no details/specifics about the make/model of vehicle(s) at issue, but keep in mind that a VIN isn't an arbitrary string of digits. Each chunk of digits represents a specific piece of information about a car; plant of manufacture, engine type, color, build sequence number, and so on. Swap two arbitrary digits in a typical VIN, and you likely won't end up with a valid VIN number anymore - unless, perhaps, you transposed just the last two digits. That the "error" resulted in a valid VIN that just happened to be in their inventory just doesn't pass the sniff test.

No offense, but you simply will not convince me that this "mistake" just happened to result in the dealership having the car that happened to match the VIN of the "mistake" they made, and that "resolving the situation" resulted in them selling that very car to the same person for more money.

Bankrate.com has an interesting story on this very issue here.

Do me a favor. Go back and search Edmunds.com for the undercover article they did about six or seven years ago where they planted a salesman/reporter in various dealerships and learned about sales tactics they employ. Its a genuine eye-opener. Again, it isn't about "conspiracy theories." Its about consumers informing themselves with as much information as possible to get past any notion that car dealers are not there to be "friends," they're there to extract every possible penny from your pocket, from pointless "dealer prep fees" to extra eighth, quarter, half-point, or 12 months in financing.

As I said, however, this deal is done, the OP is happy, so there's no point in belaboring the issue here.

 

[goofyredraider]

And every car dealership isn't sweetness and light. My husband, who worked as a car salesman, jumped immediately to this being a very clever way for the dealership to sell a more expensive car. And he noted that the OP had paperwork saying they owned the more expensive car, so they could go demand it. He actually suggested taking the paperwork to the sheriff and bringing the sheriff along with them to get the car the paperwork said they owned. I was on a phone keyboard at the time, and didn' treally think anyone would want to do that (especially after confessing the issue in public) so I didn't say it then.

DH lasted less than a month at the dealership because *what this dealership may have done is EXACTLY what his dealership did on a regular basis*. They "messed up" paperwork on accident ALL the time, because this is exactly what happens. The buyer thinks "it's just a little more, we'll just get the more expensive car". And now the dealership has made more money.

His brother worked at the same dealership as a mechanic, and the same lies happened there, too. My BIL left, too.

DH later worked for a Saturn dealership as the service writer, and he kept that part of the dealership 100% honest, and also managed to make it the highest money-making shop in the area. Seems that when customers know you're not ripping them off, you get more customers, which brings in more money. He got in trouble all the time by the higherups, but he had the proof in the finances. Once he left the profits fell because his successor was less honest and lost tons of customers.

At the first dealership and in dealings with car salesmen acquaintances, he saw and heard of this bait and switch (in the guise of a mistake) made ALL the time.

A few hundred. Plus, what, 3?5? how many years of interest? And a higher end car sold just at the end of the month. How convenient. With the purchaser thinking they got a great deal for just a little hassle. Such a win-win for that dealership.

And mine jumped to it being an inexperienced salesperson or a problem with the initial financing on the car.

Sorry your family seemed to find unethical places - but it isn't the case everywhere - all I am saying.
And you said it there, honesty buys loyalty and you get repeat business that way.

 

[ICF]

A couple of digits "switched" on a VIN that just happen to match a more expensive vehicle that just happens to be in the dealer's inventory, that they just happened to get a few more $$ from the customer to accept.

Yeah, total mistake.

The whole thing probably was person A told person B to get the paperwork ready, for the Johnson's new Toyota van. Person B -- wrongly took the Toyota van with the VIN of 2234 instead of 1234 and there the mistake was made.

Should the sales rep have caught that the color, trim and the like were off -- without a doubt. But then, one could argue that the buyer should have noticed they were buying a model/color different than what the paperwork had shown as well.

Sure, it could have been a dishonest practice by the dealer -- but it also just could have been human error.

I still don't see how the dealer was going to pull anything over on the buyer in this situation. The paperwork signed was for a price on a lesser model car -- if they buyer REALLY wanted to be a pain about it -- they likely would have won. The dealership can't make them pay more for the car the buyer already had and had "technically" sold them a better car a lower cost per the paperwork. I don't see what was shady about it.

 

[OklahomaTourist]

I still don't see how the dealer was going to pull anything over on the buyer in this situation. The paperwork signed was for a price on a lesser model car -- if they buyer REALLY wanted to be a pain about it -- they likely would have won. The dealership can't make them pay more for the car the buyer already had and had "technically" sold them a better car a lower cost per the paperwork. I don't see what was shady about it.

You don't see anything shady about the dealership getting more money by virtue of their own "mistake?" Or that the "wrong VIN chain" just happened to land on a vehicle in that same dealer's inventory? Sorry, not buying it. Just not.

Let's assume, arguendo, that it was a legitimate mistake on the part of the dealer - the put the wrong VIN on the contract. No one noticed it until after the sale was consummated. The dealership could then seek relief to void the contract on the legal grounds of whtat's called a "mutual mistake," which means both parties to a contract were in error about a material element of the contract - in this case, the identity of the vehicle being sold. That, in turn, can be sufficient to void the contract on the basis that there existed no "meeting of the minds," an essential element of any enforceable contractual relationship. The dealer, at that point, would be entirely within their rights to demand the vehicle in the customer's possession be returned.

The point is the dealer is either going to get the original car back to sell to someone else, or strike a deal to sell the "better" car for more money. How much was not disclosed and really isn't our business, but the latter obviously happened, and the dealer wasn't about to lose money in the exchange.

 

[ICF]

You don't see anything shady about the dealership getting more money by virtue of their own "mistake?" Or that the "wrong VIN chain" just happened to land on a vehicle in that same dealer's inventory? Sorry, not buying it. Just not.

Let's assume, arguendo, that it was a legitimate mistake on the part of the dealer - the put the wrong VIN on the contract. No one noticed it until after the sale was consummated. The dealership could then seek relief to void the contract on the legal grounds of whtat's called a "mutual mistake," which means both parties to a contract were in error about a material element of the contract - in this case, the identity of the vehicle being sold. That, in turn, can be sufficient to void the contract on the basis that there existed no "meeting of the minds," an essential element of any enforceable contractual relationship. The dealer, at that point, would be entirely within their rights to demand the vehicle in the customer's possession be returned.

No, I dont --- the dealership didnt ask for more money. They asked for the buyer to come back in and fix the paperwork to correct the mistakes. It's not as if they called the buyer and said...your VIN # on the paperwork is X and your actually car parked in your garage is Y. So, due to that error on our part you owe us $1000.

If they let them take home the more expensive car that matched the VIN # on the paperwork...and the dealer wanted the $$'s for the car, you MIGHT be right that it was a SCAM.

The buyer asked about what it would cost to get the "better" car, which matched their paperwork VIN, but was still in the dealers possession. That wasn't the dealers idea.

To your second example -- the last thing the dealer is going to want is to have 2 cars setting on their lot and a pissed off customer with no car heading someplace else to buy one. All they wanted the buyers to do was come back and redo the paperwork -- which wouldnt have cost them anything extra but gas and some of their "free" time. Redoing the paperwork for the right VIN, wasnt going to make the dealer any extra money --- until the buyer decided to buy the "better" car instead of just updating pervious mistakes.

Sometimes a mistake is just a mistake....

 

[Nebraska_Disney]

Whatever the resolution, I hope it is a positive and ethical one. Good luck.

You made me spit my soda out when you posted this. Ethics out of a car dealership !!!

 

[snarlingcoyote]

I don't trust dealerships. A few years ago, we bought a used truck. We knew it was high mileage, but okay. Well, not too long after buying it, the engine died. $12K later, we had a new engine - from a local diesel place with a very good reputation. Anyway, the owner of this shop said something that made DH wonder about the dealership we'd bought the truck from; I think it was something about why the dealership hadn't replaced the motor instead of just patching it up while they had the engine and it was under warranty. (The dealership definitely lied about the condition of the motor to DH, but buyer beware.)

DH is message board friends with someone who works for the Ford Corp, so he got the guy to check the records on the truck. After the truck was traded in to this dealership, it was still under warranty, so they'd charged Ford for the new engine pieces parts. But all they did was "patch" up the old engine and sell the truck. No new engine.

 

[goofyredraider]

You made me spit my soda out when you posted this. Ethics out of a car dealership !!!

Ya know, I'm pretty much done with this thread and those likes of them. Blanket statements like these are ridiculous. Yes, there are ethical businesses- sounds like you haven't had the pleasure of encountering one...and well, that's sad and unfortunate.

There are bad people in ANY line of business- doesn't mean they are all bad.

I guess everyone just wants "evil dealership" advice and not other feedback that might be helpful to them.

Soda is bad for you, totally, though lol

 

[AuntMinnie12]

OP here...we drove BOTH cars (1234 and 5678). And had decided and negotiated on car 1234....although they did pull invoices for both.

$ info on paperwork was for car 1234 but VIN number was for car 5678.

So it wasn't some random VIN that appeared out of the air.

My biggest gripes: 1--how does this error happen 2---why it took them 6 hours to call me back with the price difference.

Was I duped, perhaps! But I requested the price difference.....they didn't suggest it. Was my particular salesman the a rocket scientist, no!

In the end, we are happy!

 

[chloelovesdisney]

My guess is they call customers back towards the end of their shift, they called back on the same business day, no? I think it's common to return calls later on all together or you would be interrupted all day long.

 

[turkeymama]

OP here...we drove BOTH cars (1234 and 5678). And had decided and negotiated on car 1234....although they did pull invoices for both.

$ info on paperwork was for car 1234 but VIN number was for car 5678.

So it wasn't some random VIN that appeared out of the air.

My biggest gripes: 1--how does this error happen 2---why it took them 6 hours to call me back with the price difference.

Was I duped, perhaps! But I requested the price difference.....they didn't suggest it. Was my particular salesman the a rocket scientist, no!

In the end, we are happy!

I don't think you were duped. I honestly think it took them so long to call you back because they weren't prepared for that question. They called simply to get you back in to correct the vin on the paperwork. And since you explained further that you test drove both cars, now I understand even more how the error could have occurred. It really does happen a lot. It happened to me at least once. I don't remember if the vin that appeared on my paperwork was for a more expensive model or not. I just knew that I could not complete my insurance, loan or title paperwork until the problem was corrected. I'm glad you got the vehicle you wanted. I'll be on a similar journey sooner rather than later and I hope everything goes smoothly.

 

[ssawka]

Ya know, I'm pretty much done with this thread and those likes of them. Blanket statements like these are ridiculous. Yes, there are ethical businesses- sounds like you haven't had the pleasure of encountering one...and well, that's sad and unfortunate.

There are bad people in ANY line of business- doesn't mean they are all bad.

I guess everyone just wants "evil dealership" advice and not other feedback that might be helpful to them.

Soda is bad for you, totally, though lol

You are correct that there are honest businesses out there, but there is a reason that car dealerships have the reputation they do. It is not without merit. Does that mean they are all bad, no! But, I think almost everyone has had a run in with a crooked car dealer. Personally, I find buying a car to be the most stressful purchase you can make! Even more stressful than buying a home.

 

[jperrot1]

I'm very happy that it all worked out. It looks to me like you paid a fair price for the car you wanted, and you have a good relationship with the people at the car dealership. It looks like the folks at the dealership really wanted to show you respect when you returned, and you received it well. Good job on your negotiating. You negotiated respectfully and got a great price

 

[okeydokey]

In general, if the business made a clerical error and needs it fixed, the burden is on them to fix it. If that means sending a runner with paperwork to where I work or live, then fine. If it means paying fed-ex for delivery and return, fine also.

 

[OklahomaTourist]

]No, I dont --- the dealership didnt ask for more money. [/B]

They didn't have to. The OP volunteered it. Just as they suspected he would.

Look, we just disagree on this. You think the dealer is clean on this, which is entirely your prerogative, and I don't. Not for one second.

We just differ on the motives of a car dealership.

Dealerships are fixed on one thing - maximizing profit on every possible transaction in every way possible. And, in this case, they did exactly that.

Moving on.

 

[joeswife1109]

After much debate, we had to purchase a new car. My DH signed the paperwork yesterday and I had to go in today.

About 30 minutes later, the dealership called me and said they made a mistake on the paperwork and we had to come in again. They put the wrong VIN number on the paperwork (for a slightly more expensive model)....but we have the less expensive model in our possession.

So I asked what the price difference was, so perhaps we could just strike a deal and pay the difference....and not redo the paperwork. It took them 6 hours to get back to me even with the price difference. Then they said full MSRP on the difference...which I found really strange.! They won't budge.

I'm just frustrated as now we have to take time out of our day tomorrow to correct this.......and it was their fault!

I feel like dropping off the car, getting our traded-in car and leaving!!!

Thanks for letting me vent!

Something like this happened to me..the same day I bought my car the same exact make, model also was sold with close to the exact mileage. They put the wrong VINs on each of our paperwork. It wasn't until almost a year later when they called me and told me it happened. The other person tried to take their car in for inspection and it was figured out. Funny thing was my car went in for inspection two months earlier and it was never found which means they didn't check my paperwork when they inspected my car. Per my state they violated proper procedures on inspections. I called a lawyer who told me it was breach of contract. Basically I insured and paid for the wrong car all year and had I had an accident it wouldn't have been covered. I told them take the car back (honestly didn't like it anyway), pay it off and give me a new car. They did. They would not fight me because they knew I had them.