car #1 or #2 people???

[Maistre Gracey]

Although I usually post on the DVC board, I have been reading here.

It seems to me that most here (at least lately) are car 3 or 4(if I understand the car thing correctly). Quite frankly, I have never heard such pessimism and negativity. If someone who has never been to WDW were to read this board, they would think that a trip to WDW would be like a trip to Hell.

I personally feel that a trip trip to WDW is still a n incredible experience, with service and magic up the wahzu.

PLEASE DON'T GET ME WRONG, I am a firm believer that we need a variety of opinions (including both extremes) to make a solid, informed decision.

I personally feel that some are over exagerating the Eisner issue, and I am firmly between car #1 and #2.

Can we please here from some optimists here?!!! Who else feels the same way?

 

[manning]

Oh boy!!!!!!!!!

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Maistre Gracey, since you say you usually don’t post here, let me welcome you!!!

I too, as you can see by my handle, own a DVC interest. And I LOVE it!!! Recently, I spent three week in Old Key West and still didn’t get enough of it!! It was truly splendid!!!

It seems to me that most here (at least lately) are car 3 or 4(if I understand the car thing correctly).

Yeah!! It confuses me too and I was here when it all came about!! It seems they keep rewriting the definitions. But no matter how they define them I always seem to be driving car #3!!

Now, you may find that surprising, given the “glowing” thumbnail sketch I gave about Old Key West. I mean, how can a person have a “splendid” time, for three weeks no less, and still claim ownership of car #3??

Well, the answer is pretty simple. I strive to be as educated as possible and as informed as possible, about all things Disney. Most of us have followed this company for a good many years. Personally my love affair with Walt Disney’s way of doing business started in 1968!! All through the seventies and eighties I FAITHFULLY visited as often as time and resources allowed. And in the late nineties I (and I would guess most of us) found the Internet and this site in particular. I stuck with this site over others because the posters here, by and large, do not flame alternate viewpoints. They are VERY, VERY intelligent! And the amount of Disney business knowledge bantered about here, in a very casual and offhand way, quite simply blows me away!!!!

But at the same time I discovered this site, this wealth of knowledge and free exchange of intellectual concepts, I noticed a lot of little things (and a couple major ones) at Disney that bothered me quite a bit. At first it was just a feeling. A feeling that ‘something’ had changed. Something fundamental. Something basic. And that something wasn’t good! It felt BAD!!

After spending some time defending this “feeling” I started to become more articulate in my writing and more cognizant of the problem I now recognized as a fundamental change in philosophy. Quite simply their “way of doing business” was no longer what I had fallen in love with way back in 1968!! And that saddened me a great deal.

PLEASE DON'T GET ME WRONG, I am a firm believer that we need a variety of opinions (including both extremes) to make a solid, informed decision.

On this board we do have a great many ‘pessimists’ (I like to call the realists ) and a great many optimists! But lately, even the optimists have some basic philosophical issues with Disney’s current management. And it is because of the great wealth of knowledge, and the flame free atmosphere on this site that we can all learn from each other and can begin to see through the “official” spin and a fresh coat of paint and realize that the ‘core’ of this Disney concept we’ve ALL come to know and love is not what it once was or what it potentially can be.

Quite frankly, I have never heard such pessimism and negativity.

Well, I hope the above paragraph pretty much answered this. It is NOT “pessimism and negativity”, but a stark and blunt dose of reality. What the newspapers and analysts are now saying within the past few days is exactly what many of us have been saying the past few years! (And as an aside I gotta tell ya: IT FEELS GREAT!!!!)

I think I can say for all of us Cars #1 through #3, that when we are in Dinsey we buy into the Magic and Pixie dust as much (and maybe more so) than any other person on the fae of the planet. But when we discuss the philosophy of bringing that magic to life, we can ALL see that this administration does not have what it takes.

Does this make a little more sense now?

 

[JeffH]

I used to regularly bring common sense to the senseless on this board (effectively shutting down many negative discussions), but there are those who continue to paint an unjustified negative picture despite all the positive justified (with many examples) counter points. I got flamed often by a couple of pessamists, who couldn't face reality, and many jumped to my defense, including the moderators. Then there was this one ****** flamer who sent me grossly (and completely unjustified) insulting personal mail attacking me as a person, who I reported and yet is still allowed to post on this board.
I just found that it was no longer worth it to get upset and fight with people with such a negative perspective, and be unjustifiably flamed and insulted. So I ignore most of this now, as probably do most of those 'in cars 1 and 2'. I have found that this site is pretty well controlled by the pessimists, so I prefer Intercot when it comes to constructive Disney discussions.
-
All I know is that I've been going to WDW regularly since it opened, as a teenager, young adult, husband, adult, father, alone, with friends with wife, with family, and now the last 8 years with my wonderful daughter, and it is better (more magical) than ever. And since my daughter has been born, it seemed to me that WDW has constantly improved with her (and me) in mind...in particular the buffets (I love to eat), the character buffets (for her), the live entertainment (for both of us), the new attractions, the parades, Kidcot stations, Fantasmic, pin and card trading, and the entire Animal Kingdom. We have a wonderful and magical time every time we go to WDW.

We have also stayed at most of the resorts including the Contemporary, Poly, Grand FL, Music, DInstitute and Caribean Beach, and have visited many of the others. We have also attended many events including many Mickey's Christmas parties, and Halloween parties, New Year's Eves, Soap's weekends, Star Wars weekends and many more.
So I know from where I speak.
The only time that I was ever 'disappointed' with WDW would have been when MGM first opened (around 1990). I was single, the Magic Kingdom held little excitement for me, EPCOT was becoming boring, and MGM was 'empty' and VERY boring. I had been on all the attractions dozens of times, hated lip-syncing live acts, didn't care about parades, and they were cutting back on the extravagant menus in the World Showcase (China used to have a huge menu featuring many items from all 4 'sections' of China, and I had the Peking Duck there once and it was great...that disappeared with the cutbacks as well). Since Tasha was born in '93 so much has happened it is just amazing.
To us the magic of WDW is a combination of:
The theming, landscaping and attention to detail, which WDW continues to richly embrace, in the parks and resorts, and even more deeply with the opening of the deeply researched and themed Animal Kingdom;
The Cast Members, who are still helpful, happy, and still lie through their teeth (when appropriate).
The characters, who are everywhere, now, and you can now eat with them!!!
The parades, some which encourage interaction with the children, and are now at all 4 parks.
The miles of walking, well, no, maybe not the walking.
And now the LIVE shows.
And the yet to be experienced cruises.
-
I do not, however see "the world" through rose colored glasses and do see where things are wrong or could be done better and have sent my complaints to WDW and posted them as well, we just know how to enjoy ourselves with what WDW offers, which is much more and at a higher 'level' than anyone else and appreciate it greatly.

My current complaints/suggestions would be...
1) Why isn't the Animal Kingdom open until at least sundown or later??? It's senseless to close a park at 5pm when it doesn't get dark until 8pm (especially now that the park opens at 9am instead of 7am like when it first opened)? We love this park and love to see the Tree of Life and shows after dark. And although we are annual passholders, the people who pay full price deserve a park to be open longer than 8 hours!?!
2) They need better weather judgers, several parades we have wanted to see were cancelled or sped through (eliminating interaction) despite no rain or lightening. We center our days around the parades and it is very upsetting when a parade gets cancelled even after the rain has subsided.
3) Where is Beastly Kingdom? Considering it is part of the 'core' of Animal Kingdom, it should be built ASAP...it's like having the Magic Kingdom without Fantasyland open yet.
4) Add more pavilions to Epcot (in both Future World and the World Showcase, especially), there's just so much open space, and maybe an east to west friendship boat.
5) Move the noisy, smelly, themeless, out-of-place Tomorrowland Racetrack to the other side of the train track and convert to electric toon cars riding through a happy toon track, then through a evil toon track (behind a future Villian's area), then back to a happy toon track. Then expand ToonTown, and Tomorrowland.
6) All meals in the castle should be character meals
7) Ariel (with legs) should do meet and greets in the other parks
8) Restore the water fun to Donald's Boat in Toontown
9) Add a playyard at Epcot (a Kid'sWorld pavilion in the World Showcase)

I am not a Disney stock holder, so whatever happens 'behind the scenes' doesn't really matter to me...it's what I see at WDW that counts, as far as I am concerned.

 

[DaveO]

I would say I am in Car #1.5 And mostly lurk as my posts pointing out positive items always get ripped apart and told they are invalid points while all the negatives are treated as gospel.

NO MORE !!!!!

I am going to post now as much as I can on the positives and forcing the doomsdayers to back up thier statements with hard data such as:

More cutbacks than other parks
Other parks are better themed with thier new attractions.
No ETicket attractions are being added (Mission:Space)
Vaccum sweepers where never 'Sweeping people out in the good ole days' They were I remember.

The list goes on ....

I too would like to see some things change and have learned from what some of the negative folks have posted such as LB ... BUT ... we do need some balance and I am going to try and help the pendulum back to the middle (in terms of posts that is).

Dave O.

 

[manning]

A lot of agree that magic is there. What we are concerned about is the trend. The amount of magic is going down.

If you want to get an example of more negativeness, go over to the resort forum. It appears complaints are on the rise. Anyway that seems to be the feeling.

 

[DaveO]

I think a lot of it is a self fulfilling prophecy.

People see what they want to see both the positive and negative.

Dave O.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

I think a lot of it is a self fulfilling prophecy.

People see what they want to see both the positive and negative.

I’m afraid I don’t understand this. Could you clarify?

I mean, I understand it from a surface view. A new coat of paint does wonders for a building, say Tiki in Disneyland. But you know, no matter how many times Paul had it painted, the wood underneath was still rotten and in the end, had to be replaced!!

I think many times we are talking apples and oranges, if not the entire fruit salad. Yes!! I still see a whole bunch of magic that has been carried over from the Walt regime. And I even see some Magic being added due to the philosophical doctrine that Walt created, that hasn’t been totally destroyed by the current administration. But in all honesty I see them, more an more, veering away from that ideology and focusing on a new type business plan, that quite frankly leaves me cold. I’m surprised that it doesn’t leave you, as well as all Disney fans, cold too.

So, what we’re talking about (at least I’m talking about) is underlying, fundamental and very basic philosophical concepts that guide the company. Not just a new and relatively inexpensive parade or a fresh coat of paint (which was probably painted during the day, in full view of the guests, once again spoiling the SHOW!!)

Just a thought to get us on the same page for the ensuing dialogue!!

 

[JeffH]

The amount of magic is going down

Perfect example of a negative comment without a shred of evidence to back it up, not even a single example, not one.
Whereas, last week, Tasha and I attended a BRAND NEW Princess Breakfast at the castle in Norway, you can't get much more magical than that...that represents a pretty big chunk of magic going up. I also noticed that ALL the live shows that were cut back after tourist decline after 911 (Pocahantas, Hunchback) were restored this summer, and SpectroMagic ran EVERY night again this summer (so where is the loss here?). The characters are back in the World Showcase (Aladdin and Jasmine in Morroco<who never left>, Snow White in Germany, Belle and Beast in France), you just have to look for them. The new Imagination ride is again magical (although there still could be a lot more added to make it better). My daughter has spent hours with Mickey, Pluto, Chip and Dale in the Annual Passholders lounge at Epcot.
Last Tuesday Tasha attended her first Tea Party with Alice in Wonderland at the Grand Floridian and had a marvelous time (although it is not brand new, it does represent one of the many newer magical experiences to be had at WDW).
I also, personally, think that FastPass had dramatically increased the magic thoughout WDW. I hate waiting in lines, I also hate trying to judge when a line is short enough (or will be short enough) to get into. With Fastpass, we get our show time, and while waiting for that time to come around enjoy another (no wait) show, shop, pin-trade, or enjoy a hot fudge sundae together. Fastpass has taken the rush, wait, frustrate out of the park experience and added a lot of time for the little things (which Disney has a LOT of) and simple togetherness. And that is especially magical to us.

As far as resort complaints increasing, do you think this could possibly be due to the increase in number of people staying at the resorts during the summer as compared to the relatively few before then since 911? (more people=more complaints...1% of 100 = 1, while 1% of 1000 = 10, the increase of 9 doesn't necessarily mean an increase in complaints, they are still at 1%)

I see them, more an more, veering away from that ideology and focusing on a new type business plan

Again, where is even one piece of justification?
I just got through listing many magical additions thoughout WDW that make our last visit more magical than the last.
Whether a parade is inexpensive to add or not has nothing to do with whether it is good and/or magical. Disney parades are second to none and the 5 parades currently running at WDW are each unique and magical. Just because Disney doesn't spend 99 gazillion dollars on each and everything doesn't make it less magical. Disney has a bottom line to pay attention to and if it doesn't it will GO OUT OF BUSINESS, so they have pay attention to all sides of WDW for our sake as well as theirs. It costs a lot of money to sustain their attention to detail, that most other parks simply ignore.

a fresh coat of paint (which was probably painted during the day, in full view of the guests, once again spoiling the SHOW!!)

When the Magic Kingdom was new, you didn't catch them painting during the day because IT WAS NEW and didn't need all that much painting. The concept of painting at night in the cool 100% humid Florida air is rediculous. We've spent 43 days at WDW so far this year and have yet to see anyone painting in full view, and if I did it certainly wouldn't spoil the show for us.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

OK. I am leery about engaging you in conversation as I think we are speaking two different languages, or at least coming to the conversation from two entirely different levels. However, within your recent post I have one request for clarification, one question (a little sarcastic I’m afraid, but the issue really boils me) and, last but not least, even one item upon which we can totally agree!!

As far as resort complaints increasing, do you think this could possibly be due to the increase in number of people staying at the resorts during the summer as compared to the relatively few before then since 911?

Could you please restate this. I’m afraid I’m a little dense. I really don’t understand what you’re trying to say. Thanks.

I also noticed that ALL the live shows that were cut back after tourist decline after 911 (Pocahantas, Hunchback) were restored this summer, and SpectroMagic ran EVERY night.

Now, you stress the word “EVERY” as if this were special. You do realize, of course, that we had twenty five years of TWO parades EVERY night during the summer, don’t you? So what’s restored? Where is the magical “second” parade? And please keep in mind that it doesn’t matter one whit whether you ever personally enjoyed the two parades, many did. I’m curious to know your philosophy on this issue.

And finally the agreement!!

Perfect example of a negative comment without a shred of evidence to back it up, not even a single example, not one.

Now, I think you realize that I disagree, totally, with the assumption that there is no backup. But that backup lies in understanding the basic tenets of Disney and in how corrupt they have become. (Hang on; the good bit is coming!!)

I do agree that a statement like this, particularly to you, is entirely too subjective and therefore has no place in the discussion.

 

[DaveO]

LB - What I mean is that from all the negative press (yes - some is valid) that poeple go to WDW looking for things to go wrong. And maybe those items were ALWAYS there it is just without the microscope of the Internet folks were not looking. This just makes all the negative news reports bigger than the they actually are.

Again - I am not saying all is perfect in the world. And I actuall agree with SOME of what is said here.

I posted a while back in my post 9/11 trip that I too after hearing all the negatives here went looking for things to be wrong. I found everything as expected.

I guess the difference in our opinions is that I think some of the short-sided business practices - will be turned around 'soon'. It was done before and can be done again. Everything runs in cycles. Maybe Eisner will see the light or maybe he will be replaced.

This is what I would see as a turnaround in the next 12 - 36 months:

* EE restored
* Space a wild success and true E ticket attraction (like any mountain)
* True E Ticket anounced for AK
* Hours brought back to late 90's level
* Dump ABC and any other underperforming non core business or turn ABC around.
* Another mega animation hit - This will be MUCH harder than the Lion King days as the theaters are saturated with kid flicks.
* Clone Soarin in WDW (very cost effective)
* Clone a TDS attraction in WDW (very cost efective) add to Living Seas?

If NONE of these are done or similar I will be in Car #3 and will be renting my DVC points out a least every other year.

Dave O. Car#1.5

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

LB - What I mean is that from all the negative press (yes - some is valid) that people go to WDW looking for things to go wrong

I agree!!! Fortunately, that ain’t me!! And from your posts, that ain’t you either!! See!! Already an agreement!!

And maybe those items were ALWAYS there it is just without the microscope of the Internet folks were not looking.

Well, there sure is a potential for that. But usually not with the issues I raise. They tend to run deeper if more intangible. They point to philosophical differences, rather that bricks and motor (or cheap parades and shows, if you will). And I think the standard, traditional hours is a perfect example of this ‘now vs. then’ scenario.

Again - I am not saying all is perfect in the world. And I actually agree with SOME of what is said here.

I understand.

I posted a while back in my post 9/11 trip that I too after hearing all the negatives here went looking for things to be wrong. I found everything as expected.

Perhaps it is your expectations that we should examine. Not that they were “right” or “wrong”, just that they may have been different and perhaps a little more… ahhh… well… forgiving than most. I really can’t say as I don’t yet know where your standards are set. Maybe we should start by defining that philosophy first?

I guess the difference in our opinions is that I think some of the short-sided business practices - will be turned around 'soon'.

Many have said what you said here. And I clearly remember a certain sea faring adversary saying the exact same thing over two years ago. When I pointed out that ABC was a one hit “millionaire” wonder, he said he was certain that ABC would be number for years to come!! I derided GO.COM. He was certain it would lead the Internet industry!! And it went on and on. Perhaps you remember some of our conversations. When I asked how he arrived at this conclusion he said in two years I would see. All Ei$ner needed was a little time. And he also something to the effect of:

It was done before and can be done again. Everything runs in cycles.

Yet… Well. I think you get the point.

So, you are saying he (or Disney in general at least) needs 12 to 36 months and more importantly on their present course (a change in head mouse and I might agree with you). Well, that’s one hell of a window, but that doesn’t matter. I will ask you the very same question I asked my good friend back then. From their past actions and recent decisions, what in the world can you possibly point to that leads you to that conclusion? Quite frankly, I don’t see it!!

* EE restored
* Space a wild success and true E ticket attraction (like any mountain)
* True E Ticket announced for AK
* Hours brought back to late 90's level
* Dump ABC and any other under performing non core business or turn ABC around.
* Another mega animation hit - This will be MUCH harder than the Lion King days as the theaters are saturated with kid flicks.
* Clone Soarin in WDW (very cost effective)
* Clone a TDS attraction in WDW (very cost effective) add to Living Seas?

You know I was looking over this list. And I’ve a question and then a comment. First: “Hours brought back to late 90's level”. What are late 90’s hours level and why not pre late ‘90’s level? (If you haven’t guessed, it’s an issue that’s very near and dear to my heart.)

Last year, or the year before the list may have read:

* Space a wild success and true E ticket attraction (like any mountain)
* BK in AK
* ABC (not dumped) but performing up to expectations (just a little tweaking)
* Peril Harbor a sure fired hit
* GO.COM finally on track
* And finally – just wait!!! Just you wait!! All you non-believers!! You’re gonna eat those words!!! JUST WAIT FOR DCA

Personally I’m tired of waiting for next year!!! I get enough of that from the Cubs and Bears!! And in the case of the Cubs, I’ve waited since the first decade of the 1900’s!! I can’t wait that long for Disney to turn around!!!

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

I GIVE UP!!!! And I apologize to all who may have followed this rather disjointed discussion. If you follow the posts at all you will find that I asked JeffH for some clarification on a particular issue:

As far as resort complaints increasing, do you think this could possibly be due to the increase in number of people staying at the resorts during the summer as compared to the relatively few before then since 911?

Could you please restate this. I’m afraid I’m a little dense. I really don’t understand what you’re trying to say. Thanks.

And instead of playing fair and actually answering my question posed at 3:33 central time he decided to edit his first post at 3:54, excising any trace of the comment!!! FOUL!!!!!

I really don’t know if he does this on purpose or is just plain ignorant of good manners and common courtesy on the Internet!! Nothing like changing the contents of an original post to make your opponent look stupid!! But either way, tactics or ignorance, it doesn’t matter. I’m through!!

Well… anyway, I suddenly remembered why I do not engage him in conversation.

Again, sorry to all. From here on in I’ll gladly continue with DaveO only!!

 

[JeffH]

If a comment was not clear in the first place, why not clarify it...in the first place, so people don't have to read 2 posts (and all those between them) to understand it?

And instead of playing fair and actually answering my question posed at 3:33 central time he decided to edit his first post at 3:54, excising any trace of the comment!!! FOUL!!!!!

Nothing foul about clarifying a post, especially considering how new this discussion is.
And contrary to your inaccurate claims, I did NOT delete ("excising any trace of the comment") or change anything, I mearly ADDED clarification following the items you questioned to make them clearer to the new readers. Just check your own quote, or did I change that too???
To your resort question I ADDED:
"(more people=more complaints...1% of 100 = 1, while 1% of 1000 = 10, the increase of 9 doesn't necessarily mean an increase in complaints, they are still at 1%)"
I also clarified by post dealing with your attack on my 'EVERY' by ADDING
"(so where is the loss here?)"

really don’t know if he does this on purpose or is just plain ignorant of good manners and common courtesy on the Internet!! Nothing like changing the contents of an original post to make your opponent look stupid!! But either way, tactics or ignorance, it doesn’t matter. I’m through!!

I did not delete the comment, so I'M not the one who is ignorant here. You asked me to clarify and I did.

Well… anyway, I suddenly remembered why I do not engage him in conversation.

Instead of crying foul, just edit your post accordingly...oh, but that would eliminate some of your meaningless criticizms of my post. By meaningless, I mean having nothing to do with the argument, only nitpicking to try to discredit the post as a whole.
...or crying foul and making inaccurate claims to try to discredit my post.

Again, sorry to all. From here on in I’ll gladly continue with DaveO only!!

Yes, I know, it's hard to argue with the facts and truth.
I'll go back and colorize the clarifications that I added at your request, just for you, then you can attack the color I choose.

 

[BRERALEX]

WOW this is debating at its finest!!!!!!

I used to be a super super optimist.

BUT magic kingdom used to be open till midnight in late august when i was kid not 6pm yes that was not a typo 6pm august 27th 28th 29th and then a big whopping 8 on friday (big whoop)

that hurt the magic ALOT for me.

And poorly conceived cheap rides have also hhurt the magic fo rme.

a misplaced aladdin spinner ruining the feel of adventureland. getting rid of carousel of progress which to me is sacriliges. and horrible sequals to make a quick buck on the video library has been turning me into (look at the something disney first in a negative way and THEN putting on my rose colored glasses as to before i joined the DIS when i had my rose colored glasses super glued to my face) Im going for rose colored lasik<spelling?

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

WOW this is debating at its finest!!!!!!

Yes it is!! I agree. High concepts and exalted ideals!! Digging our way to the very core of the doctrine and trying to come away with substantial beliefs and substantive philosophies that we can discuss, dissect and examine regarding the Disney experience!! Yes!! It is very much “debating at it’s finest”!! And so much better than providing a shallow and mostly subjective list of “goods and bads”, don’t you think?

I used to be a super super optimist.

As was I my friend! As was I!! I’m the guy that bought the Vacation Club, sight unseen. Just because it was Disney!!

BUT magic kingdom used to be open till midnight in late august when i was kid not 6pm yes that was not a typo 6pm august 27th 28th 29th

I did not realize!! I feel your pain!! That borders on a crime!!! Don’t these people realize that this type of action is gross negligence to the long term effect of not only their core audience, but of first timers as well!!?? What type of ‘experience’ are these people who need a map going to get with a closing time such as that?!?! We can negotiate the grounds blindfolded! I haven’t used a map, except in AK when it opened of course, for decades!!! Yet look how absolutely frustrating this is for us!! Imagine not knowing what you’re doing. You know, aimlessly wandering by the Peoplemover or Small World, and seeing a twenty-minute line and actually getting in it!!! I swear I saw that this July!! It was sad!!! How in the heck could they possibly handle a 6:00 closing at the end of August and come away with any kind of a meaningful experience!!?? WHAT A BUNCH OF BLOCKHEADS!!! DON’T THEY SEE THAT!?!? Or have they become so arrogant and so jaded with walking through the parks that they have truly forgotten what an overwhelming task it is the first few times?

And what do you think is the motivating factor behind this and the other things you mentioned. Because to provide a list and no thesis as to why the list exists, really doesn’t further the discussion. (I know, it’s self evident, but some people…. ) I say the reason is simple. Ei$ner is inept and just plain doesn’t GET IT!!

Anyone else have a differing view?

 

[BRERALEX]

What type of ‘experience’ are these people who need a map going to get with a closing time such as that?!?! We can negotiate the grounds blindfolded! I haven’t used a map, except in AK when it opened of course, for decades!!!

lololol Well for the first time i was thinking of getting maps when i get there because the website does say 6pm today but may not be so when i get there which is frustrating. and im hoping that when i get there the map will say maybe 1000 if im lucky or if im real lucky theyll throw in an enight<wait that just doesnt sound right?!! but thats another thread.

i was just trying to show how an optimist could turn into a pessimist. i was at work today reading Passporter not cause i need to learn something i know the book by heart along with Birnbaums (even the pictures) and disney for couples by the Perlmutters (an awesome book) but cause i love disney always have and swear they used to use subliminal messages I'm so addcited but the way park hours have been and lack of park quality (aladdin, dinorama, and lolololoo the chicken dance hotel lolol) im slowly turning towards, maybe cancun maybe vegas maybe some place giving me everything they got.

I feel disney isnt doing that anymore. theyre giving me the cheapest fastest and less thoughtout thing they can quickly to bring me back.

and thats why im more the pessimist now looking at the bad angle first and then trying to see the pixie dust

 

[JeffH]

I don't think ANY WDW theme park should close before dark.
It is absurd that Animal Kingdom closes at 5pm, especially now that it opens at 9am (not 8am or 7am like it used to). And more absurd to close the MK when there are no special events going on that evening.
The parks are so peaceful and beautiful after dark.
The price doesn't change so the hours should be more stable, and on event nights when the park closes at 6pm, perhaps the 1 day ticket price should be discounted accordingly.
I never go to the Magic Kingdom when it closes early, and this is my biggest gripe about the Animal Kingdom.
---
This doesn't mean that I think the parks should be open until midnight or 1am, though, just an hour or so after dark.

 

[BRERALEX]

but why not till midnight?

i have enjoyed so many nights just walking around mk at midnight hanging out enjoying the music enjoying being "home"
If boris becker was born centre court wimbeldon i was born main street WDW!!!!

and we can take that advice from the guide books and get a nap inbetween trips to the park cause we have enough time to do so!!!!!! i miss the good ol days.

AK i dont mind i can only stand being there till about noon if i get there at 800 anyways

 

[JeffH]

I just meant that I wouldn't expect them to keep the parks open until midnight every night (only on special occations and Saturdays), but I DO expect them to leave the parks open until at least an hour past sunset.